Now that's pretty damning. Standing up for some scammers here, having gay spats with some other scammer re glbse, I guess the forum needs a pr department.
I hear Comrade Nefario has experience in PR
Topic: OPEN LETTER to Donald, Patrick & Amir RE: Bitcoinica - page 3. (Read 26983 times)
I hear Comrade Nefario has experience in PR
Genjix and phantomcircuit are not scammers. If this was an inside job, these two people were not in on it.
Now that's pretty damning. Standing up for some scammers here, having gay spats with some other scammer re glbse, I guess the forum needs a pr department.considering other suggestions made by forum staff, and specifically theymos, I'm sure he should save the funds for a legal department, instead.
How is it that phantomcircuit STILL doesn't have a scammer tag??
That's an excellent question.
I think someone around here fucking respects him.
Who?
Genjix and phantomcircuit are not scammers. If this was an inside job, these two people were not in on it.
Now that's pretty damning. Standing up for some scammers here, having gay spats with some other scammer re glbse, I guess the forum needs a pr department.
I think that every one of the parties involved sees themselves as a victim of at least one of the other parties and that at least some of their grievances are legitimate. The real problem is that users became the victims of a ridiculous stand-off and that's pretty much destroyed any sympathy people might have had for the legitimate grievances of the parties involved. I think that by the time the whole truth about the collapse of Bitcoinica comes out, the community will be beyond caring and no-one will end up feeling vindicated.
That sounds like an acurate description of the psychology of the participants that caused the current state. And if you replace Bitcoinica with GLBSE it is exactly the same.
To be clear,
I offered to give up %100 of what I was owed, along with 3 other creditors so that everyone else would receive back %100 of their funds immediately.
Instead, Amir posted the source code causing additional money to be stolen, and no one has received any of their money back yet.
Patrick (PhantomCircuit) has lied and stalled at every step of the way.
He is directly responsable for the delays, if he would cooperate, everyone would have already had the vast majority of their money back.
He has also made personal threats against myself, and resorted to verbal insults towards his other customers.
Any legitimate businessman would not resort to such tactics.
I offered to give up %100 of what I was owed, along with 3 other creditors so that everyone else would receive back %100 of their funds immediately.
Instead, Amir posted the source code causing additional money to be stolen, and no one has received any of their money back yet.
Patrick (PhantomCircuit) has lied and stalled at every step of the way.
He is directly responsable for the delays, if he would cooperate, everyone would have already had the vast majority of their money back.
He has also made personal threats against myself, and resorted to verbal insults towards his other customers.
Any legitimate businessman would not resort to such tactics.
Wow, you have my deepest respect. It's so unfortunate the intersango trio managed to fuck it all up. 4th fuckup and counting. How many more to go?
They should have never taken on the task, at no time did their involvement with Bitcoinica surpass a lukewarm status. As if it's not a million dollar responsibilty, they wanted to make easy cash on the side giving their expertise. In the end greed fucked up everyone, on both sides- intersango and investors alike. This so called community is poisoned with greedy bastards and unaccountable snakelike entrepreneurs winding their way out. Anyway, intersango have contributed a great deal to fucking up the entire bitcoin project for many.
Sure, there's no doubt that Bitcoin Consultancy was actively looking to be taken on board as security consultants for Bitcoinica after they discovered a flaw in the code which allowed the hot wallet to be emptied. They admitted that following the Rackspace hack. The emails leaked by Amir also seem to point to a vision of developing a "super-exchange" to rival MtGox, and merging the interests of Intersango and Bitcoinica probably seemed like a good way to accomplish that after TradeHill failed.
If the timeline given by the parties involved is correct, then it was a pretty short one and I suspect that there was way too much haste involved on all sides - something which set the scene for later disaster. I think that every one of the parties involved sees themselves as a victim of at least one of the other parties and that at least some of their grievances are legitimate. The real problem is that users became the victims of a ridiculous stand-off and that's pretty much destroyed any sympathy people might have had for the legitimate grievances of the parties involved. I think that by the time the whole truth about the collapse of Bitcoinica comes out, the community will be beyond caring and no-one will end up feeling vindicated.
They should have never taken on the task, at no time did their involvement with Bitcoinica surpass a lukewarm status. As if it's not a million dollar responsibilty, they wanted to make easy cash on the side giving their expertise. In the end greed fucked up everyone, on both sides- intersango and investors alike. This so called community is poisoned with greedy bastards and unaccountable snakelike entrepreneurs winding their way out. Anyway, intersango have contributed a great deal to fucking up the entire bitcoin project for many.
After Bitcoinica was sold and became a registered financial services provider Zhou (a minor) should have had his access to customer funds revoked.
By Zhou's own admission, he was paid a lot of money to continue running Bitcoinica after it was sold and retained the profits Bitcoinica made between the time of the sale and January. He continued to be paid to run Bitcoinica up until the Intersango guys were brought on board, and the emails leaked by Amir show that Zhou was only asked not to take a salary after Amir, Donald and Patrick had agreed not to take salaries until Bitcoinica's financial mess was sorted out.
Zhou's credentials should absolutely have been revoked the day that the Intersango guys took over the management of Bitcoinica. It's absolutely standard to revoke existing credentials and issue new ones. The emails show that at the time the Rackspace happened, the Intersango guys were not considered "up to speed" on Bitcoinica, which is probably why Zhou still had managerial level access.
Can't blame a guy for asking his money back.
However I can blame the custodians of our money for not acting in our best interest.
After Bitcoinica was sold and became a registered financial services provider Zhou (a minor) should have had his access to customer funds revoked. Backups should have been made. Reasonable security measures should have been in place. The ToS should have been respected. Thefts should have been reported and investigated. Efforts should have been made to recover funds. Customers should have been informed through proper channels. Promises should have been honored. None of this happened. The anger towards Donald, Patrick and Amir is justified. They might be victims in their own way but their actions have willingly victimized many more. Not a day goes by where I am not reminded of my unfortunate decision to put a large chunk of my savings in Bitcoinica.
However I can blame the custodians of our money for not acting in our best interest.
After Bitcoinica was sold and became a registered financial services provider Zhou (a minor) should have had his access to customer funds revoked. Backups should have been made. Reasonable security measures should have been in place. The ToS should have been respected. Thefts should have been reported and investigated. Efforts should have been made to recover funds. Customers should have been informed through proper channels. Promises should have been honored. None of this happened. The anger towards Donald, Patrick and Amir is justified. They might be victims in their own way but their actions have willingly victimized many more. Not a day goes by where I am not reminded of my unfortunate decision to put a large chunk of my savings in Bitcoinica.
Instead, Amir posted the source code causing additional money to be stolen, and no one has received any of their money back yet.
...Are you telling me that you seriously believe Zhou's explanation of the MtGox breach and how someone who just happened to have his credentials (but who doesn't read this forum) also just happened to come across the leaked code and then also happened to think that the MtGox API keys might be a password to something else? Seriously? Because given Zhou's ridiculous story about the MtGox breach, I wouldn't even trust his explanation of the Rackspace breach.There are plenty of legitimate grounds on which to criticise the way that Donald, Patrick and Amir have handled the whole Bitcoinica disaster. Let's not damage our own credibility by pretending to believe in the absurd.
The fact that Intersango guy have not yet been able to communicate coherently has helped Zhou get away with it. They haven't investigated or raised the hint of a doubt about Zhou's story. IIRC they didn't even cooperate with Tihan/Murck when it was time to receive the stolen funds from Zhou.
There are still many hundred of thousand $ not recovered from last CHEN/ZHOU theft.
Instead, Amir posted the source code causing additional money to be stolen, and no one has received any of their money back yet.
Roger, I've been extremely critical of the Intersango guys and the way they've handled this clusterfuck for a very long time but even I don't buy the idea that the Bitcoinica MtGox account was breached because Amir leaked the code. Are you telling me that you seriously believe Zhou's explanation of the MtGox breach and how someone who just happened to have his credentials (but who doesn't read this forum) also just happened to come across the leaked code and then also happened to think that the MtGox API keys might be a password to something else? Seriously? Because given Zhou's ridiculous story about the MtGox breach, I wouldn't even trust his explanation of the Rackspace breach.
There are plenty of legitimate grounds on which to criticise the way that Donald, Patrick and Amir have handled the whole Bitcoinica disaster. Let's not damage our own credibility by pretending to believe in the absurd.
Motion to dismiss filed 10/12/12
http://webaccess.sftc.org/Scripts/Magic94/mgrqispi94.dll?APPNAME=IJS&PRGNAME=ROA22&ARGUMENTS=-ACGC12522983
http://webaccess.sftc.org/Scripts/Magic94/mgrqispi94.dll?APPNAME=IJS&PRGNAME=ROA22&ARGUMENTS=-ACGC12522983
Thanks. This is way more informative than the "No updates" on the bitcoinica.com frontpage.
I'd like Patrick Strateman to explain these motions, and his wishes and expectations of the other parties (Tihan Seale) in order to get customer funds returned.
Quote
OCT-12-2012 NOTICE OF MOTION AND MOTION TO QUASH SERVICE OF PROCESS FOR LACK OF PERSONAL JURISDICTION FILED BY DEFENDANT INTERSANGO LTD. STRATEMAN, PATRICK HEARING SET FOR NOV-13-2012 AT 09:30 AM IN DEPT 302 60.00
Genjix and phantomcircuit are not scammers. If this was an inside job, these two people were not in on it.
My vote is still on the creation of an "Utterly incompetent" tag.
I don't care if they were part of an inside job or not. The fact is, they had (still have?) control of MY MONEY (USD and BTC) and did not give ANY of it back despite repeated requests and proof of ownership. If that doesn't warrant a scammer tag for these guys then what on earth does??
Genjix and phantomcircuit are not scammers. If this was an inside job, these two people were not in on it.
My vote is still on the creation of an "Utterly incompetent" tag.
How is it that phantomcircuit STILL doesn't have a scammer tag??
That's an excellent question.
I think someone around here fucking respects him.
Who?
Genjix and phantomcircuit are not scammers. If this was an inside job, these two people were not in on it.
How is it that phantomcircuit STILL doesn't have a scammer tag??
That's an excellent question.
I think someone around here fucking respects him.
Who?
How is it that phantomcircuit STILL doesn't have a scammer tag??
That's an excellent question.
I think someone around here fucking respects him.
How is it that phantomcircuit STILL doesn't have a scammer tag??
That's an excellent question.
Yes, what the fuck is wrong with this forum?
How is it that phantomcircuit STILL doesn't have a scammer tag??
That's an excellent question.
How is it that phantomcircuit STILL doesn't have a scammer tag??
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