Topic: OPEN LETTER to Donald, Patrick & Amir RE: Bitcoinica - page 7. (Read 26987 times)
Patrick is forcing the other two? Roflcopter. Even now they are playing the blame game with each other. Patrick is the most deceptive person of the three as far as I've been following pages over pages of this mess for the past 3 months.
Why not end the NDA? Then he has nothing to hide behind right? Or is there something you don't want him to share?
Nobody with any balls worries about breaching an NDA when they're already facing being sued for everything except their first-born child. Their reaction to everything else legal has been pretty much "BFD", so I don't buy that they're holding the NDA as something sacred.
This letter that needs to be signed is the result of a meeting between all of us, including Patrick (who fully supported the idea by the way and said he would forece Amir and Donald to sign it)
Everyone at the conference needs to force Amir, Donald, and Patrick to sign this.
So why didn't Patrick sign there and then as a show of good faith? There is no requirement that they all sign at the same time and in the same place. I wouldn't rely on promises to "force" the others to sign when they're coming from someone who hasn't signed himself.
The document wasn't ready until recently, but in hindsight we should have done this.
This letter that needs to be signed is the result of a meeting between all of us, including Patrick (who fully supported the idea by the way and said he would forece Amir and Donald to sign it)
Everyone at the conference needs to force Amir, Donald, and Patrick to sign this.
So why didn't Patrick sign there and then as a show of good faith? There is no requirement that they all sign at the same time and in the same place. I wouldn't rely on promises to "force" the others to sign when they're coming from someone who hasn't signed himself.
Donald accused me of spreading misinformation and refused to sign anything until Tihan releases him from his NDA, which will allow him to "bring out the truth". Amir, was pretty stoic, had no comment on the matter other than that he didn't know what was right because he's a "programmer not a businessman", and that he'd do whatever the other guys told him to do. Patrick was not present.
What a crock of shit. He doesn't care about honouring any of his other legal obligations regarding Bitcoinica, so why does he feel obliged to uphold the NDA.
And yeah, Amir has taken the advice of the others regarding this mess right from the outset. Unfortunately, when you're "not a businessman" but sign up for the legal responsibilities which come with directorships and partnerships, you're right in the legal firing line along with the actual "businessmen".
^ This.
This is the problem, no one wants to take liability!! No one ever did! Roger and I flew to California to meet with the lawyers, Tihan, Patrick, ect.
This letter that needs to be signed is the result of a meeting between all of us, including Patrick (who fully supported the idea by the way and said he would forece Amir and Donald to sign it)
Everyone at the conference needs to force Amir, Donald, and Patrick to sign this.
Donald accused me of spreading misinformation and refused to sign anything until Tihan releases him from his NDA, which will allow him to "bring out the truth". Amir, was pretty stoic, had no comment on the matter other than that he didn't know what was right because he's a "programmer not a businessman", and that he'd do whatever the other guys told him to do. Patrick was not present.
What a crock of shit. He doesn't care about honouring any of his other legal obligations regarding Bitcoinica, so why does he feel obliged to uphold the NDA.
And yeah, Amir has taken the advice of the others regarding this mess right from the outset. Unfortunately, when you're "not a businessman" but sign up for the legal responsibilities which come with directorships and partnerships, you're right in the legal firing line along with the actual "businessmen".
Did they ever file an answer to the US lawsuit or are they ignoring that too?
They haven't yet responded to the lawsuit in California.
I spoke with Donald and Amir at the pre-conference dinner last night. Donald accused me of spreading misinformation and refused to sign anything until Tihan releases him from his NDA, which will allow him to "bring out the truth". Amir, was pretty stoic, had no comment on the matter other than that he didn't know what was right because he's a "programmer not a businessman", and that he'd do whatever the other guys told him to do. Patrick was not present.
This morning, I gave legal service of process on behalf of Wendon to Amir and Patrick at the conference venue. Donald was not present.
I have previously met with Patrick in San Francisco and, while this isn't saying much, he's probably the most sane of the group. If this document Tihan has offered is going to get signed, it will require Patrick convincing Amir.
I've gotta say, I can't believe anyone who has ever met these guys would trust them with their money, much less someone else's money.
For the record, I have pleaded with the Intersango trio, both in person to Patrick Strateman, and electronically to all three of them to sign something like this.
All three of them have refused to date.
I hope they reconsider, and do the right thing.
I still want my 23,000+ Bitcoins back!
All three of them have refused to date.
I hope they reconsider, and do the right thing.
I still want my 23,000+ Bitcoins back!
Did they ever file an answer to the US lawsuit or are they ignoring that too?
Quote
Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.
That'd count as one (juraj). Get something straight: you're not in the WOT, you're not in bitcoin.
There's a lot more to bitcoin than this forum/wot.
Quote
Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.
That'd count as one (jurov). Get something straight: you're not in the WOT, you're not in bitcoin.
You should probably fly to London and place it in their hands in front of an audience.
So has anyone done this yet or what?
Yes. It was pretty funny.
You can't just let that stand in the room. Give us all the nasty details.
Donald, Amir, and Patrick need to sign this ASAP.
Unfortunately, my impression is that pleading will not change their position. I tried to talk to them, and exhausted all the approaches I could think of, apart from threatening them. But I'm not a specialist negotiator so maybe someone else will have better luck. You should probably fly to London and place it in their hands in front of an audience.
So has anyone done this yet or what?
Yes. It was pretty funny.
You probably find it funny. I assure you that, as a creditor, that's not my opinion.
You should probably fly to London and place it in their hands in front of an audience.
So has anyone done this yet or what?
Yes. It was pretty funny.
You should probably fly to London and place it in their hands in front of an audience.
So has anyone done this yet or what?
so they did sign the thing or not ?
They almost certainly won't. Fortunately, Tihan is prepared to seek a High Court order to put Bitcoinica LP into liquidation which means that general creditors won't have to. It will slow the process down, but it won't stop it and liquidators tend to be more aggressive towards non-cooperating principals than they are towards those who actively assist them.
+1
Donald, Amir, Patrick, Please don't bankroll your internal feud with the captive funds of Bitcoinica customers.
Donald, Amir, Patrick, Please don't bankroll your internal feud with the captive funds of Bitcoinica customers.
In the meantime, let's support them at the conference! Yay! Maybe next year pirate can organize the bitcoin conference, or maybe both parties should. After all, what these guys have in common is that they operated the most successful bitcoin business model to date (the run-off-with-the-money model).
+1
Donald, Amir, Patrick, Please don't bankroll your internal feud with the captive funds of Bitcoinica customers.
Donald, Amir, Patrick, Please don't bankroll your internal feud with the captive funds of Bitcoinica customers.
Donald, Amir, and Patrick need to sign this ASAP.
Once they do, it gives Tihan legal right to take action and get things moving forward.
There are still funds the accounts, and I believe much of the legal work is being done pro bono, or paid for personally by a few parties involved.
Oh, I've met Tihan along with Gavin and many others here many times. He lives in Seattle and has deep roots within his community.
-Charlie
Once they do, it gives Tihan legal right to take action and get things moving forward.
There are still funds the accounts, and I believe much of the legal work is being done pro bono, or paid for personally by a few parties involved.
Oh, I've met Tihan along with Gavin and many others here many times. He lives in Seattle and has deep roots within his community.
-Charlie
To me the biggest problem (among others) was their poor communication and later complete blackout. Not solving the problem is one awful thing but refusing to communicate with customers is similar to running away with the money,,, That they are still hanging around bitcoiners is mind boggling.
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