Topic: OPEN LETTER to Donald, Patrick & Amir RE: Bitcoinica - page 5. (Read 26987 times)

MtGox was only able to do that because they bought bitomat.pl.  They have no legal authority to takeover the payout process for Bitcoinica and nor can that authority be granted to them by the LP if Bitcoinica is insolvent - not that anyone in their right mind other than a liquidator would touch the payout process at this point.  Anyone who turns records or funds over to anyone other than a liquidator at this point is leaving themselves wide open liability-wise - which is why Gox won't unfreeze Bitcoinica's MtGox account until legal authority to access the funds is established.

Patrick being a smart-ass, I assume.

http://bitcoinica.com/

Donald, Patrick and Amir have not signed the resolution to appoint a liquidator. They have provided no reason for refusing to do so.

Bitcoinica's investors have been forced to file an action with the High Court of New Zealand. A hearing has been scheduled for Nov 1.

It is likely that this must be the first of several hearings, separated by weeks or months. Unfortunately there is little that can be done to expedite the process without cooperation from Bitcoinica's managing members.

Definitely. I'd say 95%+ probability that it was Zhou who did the last theft using the LastPass password. I think he only found out the source code was leaked five days after the fact (source leaked on monday, theft happened on friday). And it was on top of the prior theft due to bitcoinicaconsultancy's email being breached (and intersango crew still tried to blame that on zhou). So zhou was doubly mad already, then decided to check if they had changed the LastPass password he gave to Tihan.


I'm not sure what you mean here by "database". The database was on RackSpace and it was deleted, no current copies existed at the time. Zhou only had some old copies (he never said how old because that would've made it easier for people to file false claims). That's why Intersango had to reconstruct it from blockchain deposit records, mtgox code records, and claims filed. If I remember correctly, they said they believed they had verified 80% of the funds to valid claims but they were still in the process of collecting more information from claims filers before SHTF. For example, I filed my initial claim but then later sent them my mtgox deposit code when they requested them to their claims.bitcoinica@gmail address (or whatever it was). So there was a lot of still-in-progress work on verifying the claims which was being done, and still remains.

Its rather lucky that there was so much stability around $5 prior to the hack. Had there been some volatility, there would have been much incentive for users to file false claims with respect to positions they had right before the hack and they would have been difficult to falsify. Claims like "I made a 10k BTC deposit" two days before the hack are easily falsified by lack of blockchain or mtgox code records.


Best case outcome would be for Intersango to turn over all their records (claims by users and all additional info sent) and the progress they made. Then for MtGox to continue handling the claims and payouts (they already did this once when they bought the polish exchange bitomat.pl after all the coins and data there was lost).

They didn't have off-site backups of their database, hence the whole claim process. Only some users could be instantly verified by older backups and reports they still had.

eh?
do you mean you filled a claim and did not have a bitcoinica account?

I filed a claim on day one, but never received Zhou's infamous "I-swear-it-wasn't-me" mail, so I don't think the claims db was his source.

We do know that Zhou had access to the database during the original refund process so it's possible that Tihan or Zhou had a complete copy of it.  we know that Zhou has at least a partial user list because he used it to spam Bitcoinica users about NameTerrific. If Wendon doesn't have access to the database, that's one of the things first things the liquidator will look to obtain from the Intersango guys - taking control of all company records is one of the first duties of a liquidator.  Patrick has said he'll co-operate with the liquidator - I guess we'll just have to see how that pans out with respect to user records.

There's no question that the High Court will make an order for Bitcoinica to be put into liquidation.  Tihan will have nothing to do with the distribution process beyond co-operating with the liquidator when requested (identifying the MtGox account and any other accounts in which funds are currently frozen would be an example of this).  

At first I though the "inaccuracy" of the process was what made this so lengthy.  The current state is that Intersango guy did what they "though" was the best and stopped everything.  So now what was the best to Patrick may not be what is the best for the person taking the process over.
 Unfortunately it would seems Intersango / Bitcoin Consultancy guys are planing on using the "progress data" in hostage for protecting themselves from the numerous error they made afterward.

Maybe they think they should be paid for having handled the process half way.

I would like to remember you that the Intersango's are not the only responsible for our problems.  From Zhou to Tihan everyone who delegated the responsibility of our accounts and fund had a duties of doing so correctly.

We haven't even been notified by email of the transfer of ownership or allowed time to withdraw our funds.

Tihan and Zhou have with some success been able to defend their point while the ones at the center of it refuse to even make a statement.

I am counting every hours I spent waiting for constructive actions from Patrick Strateman, Amir, and Donald and they won't get away with it if that wait amount to nothing more than an empty stalling tactic.

For what point? genjix violated the NDA already anyway by leaking those e-mails (not to mention the bitcoinica source code).

If tseale ever accomplishes whatever legal paperwork is necessary to give customer funds back, I'm still curious about how he plans to process bitcoinica deposit claims without the database. I'd like to know if the Intersango guys gave him their progress on claims verification or if they are holding it from him.

I think tseale and his gang should release intersango guys from their NDA.

As far as I'm aware, everyone's funds are currently in a frozen MtGox account which can't be accessed by anyone associated with Bitcoinica.  What the Intersango guys are doing is refusing to sign the paperwork which would allow Bitcoinica to be put into liquidation without a High Court order.

Well, not to forget Zhou is running a business again, too.

Is Intersango guy are trying to eat our money and refuse to pay back us?

This is what I find so disgusting about the Intersango/Bitcoinica Consultancy crew.  They effectively said, "Yeah, we lost a lot of your money, we have a bunch of it still but getting it back to you is turning out to be really hard and it's giving us a headache, so we're just going to go over here and do something else.  We cool?".

They damn well better be disallowed from becoming members of the Bitcoin Foundation.

+1
 Really, what if it (the chips) is also cheating? I do not want to repeat my mistake. Here no man Entrust. I opened a fund for co-financing of the Russian-speaking users (in my signature), but I have to warn of a possible fraud.
 It harms the image of the project, but it is inevitable. Of course, I'm not ready to buy LTC, but I'll do it if it will be as popular now BTC.
 And,fuck, where my money?

i did but i dont like to repeat myself


+1


i see a difference their.
intersango still claims they are honest.
they just refuse to communicate and to take care of their customers.

i'll jump on the asic wagon
for me bitcoins are still fun


litecoins will not help to avoid scams.

but as i said: there is a difference between a scammer who runs and intersango who still runs a businness.

Everyone involved hates them with a passion I'm sure, but life must go on. I don't understand why not more people try to warn their intersango customers of their business practices though.

All in all, I don't think these suckers, Zhou and the conference supporters realize that letting this one pass sustainibly hurts the bitcoin community. In regard of Asic pre-orders some even claim there is no such a thing as a community anyway if rich fuckers get to pre-order 30-300 units and are given absolute priority.

The heists and hacks, the switch to custom hardware that can't be sold again for non-bitcoin related products (taking away hedging against total SHTF scenario) have convinced me that I will probably not jump on the ASIC bandwaggon and leave Bitcoin altogether. For good. I lost quite a bit of money at Bitcoinica, I don't see how people could have trusted Pirate other than being led by greed. To sum it up, it's a greedy, untrustworthy community full of thieves who are either unwilling or unable to secure their shit. Someone should write a white paper about that.

Personally, I will try my luck with litecoins now even if it may not better but at least I don't have to send money to anyone months ahead before receiving a product that may or may not be a good mining machine when it gets finally delivered. It is interesting to see how much some Bitcoiners detest litecoins (esp. at the conference as far as I read). All the more reason to support it now. Best side effect: Bitcoin difficulty can go up to hell and back. New people, new chances - ltc is in nothing inferior to btc technically and perhaps it represents some of the ideals of decentrality much better. I already know there won't be the same narcicistic assholes there as there are in the Bitcoin crowd that made me lose a lot of money.

i am not cool with them

at this point i just hate phantomcircuit for doing NOTHING for their(!) customers.