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Topic: OPEN LETTER to Donald, Patrick & Amir RE: Bitcoinica - page 8. (Read 27050 times)

legendary
Activity: 2198
Merit: 1311
Could you ask them what is their plan to help creditors get their money back ?
It looks like their strategy is to bury their head in the sand, and hope for the best...
They probably won't do anything unless it goes to court.

Because maybe that way they'll get lucky and get to keep everyone else's money.  I wish you all the best in perpetrating one of the biggest thefts in bitcoin history.  Good luck!   Cheesy
donator
Activity: 544
Merit: 500
Could you ask them what is their plan to help creditors get their money back ?
It looks like their strategy is to bury their head in the sand, and hope for the best...
They probably won't do anything unless it goes to court.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 251
IANAL but I'm guessing that the only document they'd sign is something along the lines of "I do not acknowledge a successful transfer of control of Bitcoinica to myself, so I have no authority to release it into liquidation.  But I will state that I will not contest any liquidation process that does occur"...
This is what I asked Donald. He declined.

Could you ask them what is their plan to help creditors get their money back ?
It looks like their strategy is to bury their head in the sand, and hope for the best...
donator
Activity: 544
Merit: 500
IANAL but I'm guessing that the only document they'd sign is something along the lines of "I do not acknowledge a successful transfer of control of Bitcoinica to myself, so I have no authority to release it into liquidation.  But I will state that I will not contest any liquidation process that does occur"...
This is what I asked Donald. He declined.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
I've found the best method to keep track is to get their business card.
I tend to lose business cards. So now I opted for taking pictures of business cards on my phone Smiley

For a while I was trying to do the v-card bluetooth thing, but it never works.

Thanks for keeping us up to date on the London conference. Too bad it's overshadowed by recent events. Would somebody be so kind as to PM me the thread dedicated to the conference?

Also, it looks like my questions and concerns addressed on this thread were kindly responded to. Thanks, all, who've reply. And thanks again, Tihan.

~Bruno~
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
IANAL but I'm guessing that the only document they'd sign is something along the lines of "I do not acknowledge a successful transfer of control of Bitcoinica to myself, so I have no authority to release it into liquidation.  But I will state that I will not contest any liquidation process that does occur"...

In other words, by signing that document as written it looks to me like they would tacitly acknowledge responsibility for Bitcoinica at the time when the hacks occurred...

The document is not requiring them to sign on behalf of Bitcoinica Consultancy Ltd (the general partner of Bitcoinica LP) but as individuals.  As individuals, they have a combined interest of 25% in Bitcoinica LP (which they were given in exchange for Wendon being issued shares in Intersango).  

Whether or not they try to stall the liquidation is not going to affect whether they are found personally liable for the failure of Bitcoinica and/or whether they are sued as Bitcoinica Consultancy Ltd and individually in other actions which are either in progress or anticipated.  It will, however, make the liquidation a more expensive process and result in smaller returns to users.

I think everyone involved with Bitcoinica made some appalling decisions, including Tihan, but the immediate focus needs to remain on the most efficient way of returning the funds on hand to Bitcoinica users.  The bitch-fight about who should have done what and when is for another venue.
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1010
I am kind of finding this fiasco hard to believe.  Although, I have only had a few conversations with Amir over the internet, he has been really nice and patient with me during the previous process.  I have never spoken to Prince Patrick, though.

What would be the downfall of signing this document from their POV?  The sooner this shit gets done, the sooner the community can move forward.  Unless I am missing something, I don't even know why these guys would want to be in public around other bitcoin people while all this shit is still up in the air.  It is fucking embarrassing and starting to get just a tad bit ridiculous.  I would have a seriously hard time looking people in the eye when speaking and meandering around the conference.

Please, just sign this thing and let's turn the page.

IANAL but I'm guessing that the only document they'd sign is something along the lines of "I do not acknowledge a successful transfer of control of Bitcoinica to myself, so I have no authority to release it into liquidation.  But I will state that I will not contest any liquidation process that does occur"...

In other words, by signing that document as written it looks to me like they would tacitly acknowledge responsibility for Bitcoinica at the time when the hacks occurred...


donator
Activity: 1731
Merit: 1008
Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?
Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.

Of the core dev team there's myself and Pieter (sipa), and I think Nils (tcatm) is coming too.
What ? are you seriously responding to MPOE-PR saying there wont be anybody at the conference ?

Hint : IT WAS A JOKE !
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1100
Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?
Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.

Of the core dev team there's myself and Pieter (sipa), and I think Nils (tcatm) is coming too.

hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
I've found the best method to keep track is to get their business card.
I tend to lose business cards. So now I opted for taking pictures of business cards on my phone Smiley

For a while I was trying to do the v-card bluetooth thing, but it never works.
donator
Activity: 544
Merit: 500
I've found the best method to keep track is to get their business card.
I tend to lose business cards. So now I opted for taking pictures of business cards on my phone Smiley
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?
Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.

I've found the best method to keep track is to get their business card.
donator
Activity: 544
Merit: 500
Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?
Even if you disregard Nefario (GLBSE) and Intersango (libbitcoin), there's Tony Gallippi from BitPay, the guy from Butterfly Labs, Stefan Thomas (bitcoin-js), Pieter Wuille (core dev team), Jan Moller (BitcoinSpinner), Jim Burton (MultiBit), Vladimir (Bitcoin Magazine), Juraj Bednar (he's been promoting Bitcoin in Slovakia), the guys from Bitcoin Austria, and tons of people I didn't have time to meet or whose names I forgot.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
Seriously? One name that's something in bitcoin, say it. Who's there?

Give out free soup in London these days, get 3k people lined up all the way to the next intersection.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
I'm at the conference. There are plenty of people here, more than last year. Boycotting it would be like shooting yourself in the foot.

I spoke with Amir and Donald about Bitcoinica. I don't think it's likely they will help with the liquidation.

There was about 100-150 people at the dinner, which isn't the conference proper, there are over 300 people attending, I'm exhausted already and it's not started yet.
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
If the reason for Amir and co for not distancing themselves from the conference is in fact that it's their own conference aka "Intersango's Bitcoin conference" you shouldn't ask yourself why the conference wasn't cancelled (next necessary step imo) but what the hell you are still doing there to support it.

On an upside, this conference will give people a chance to confront team Intersango with the issue in person. They really must have balls, I'm telling ya.

Indeed.

I can't wait to see them try and act stupid with a camera shoved in their faces ...

Too bad I am not bothered enough to attend their sham conference and do it myself.

You're assuming that the "media" in attendance will even know about the Bitcoinica clusterfuck let alone regard it as worth any kind of in your face questioning.  To date, media reports regarding Bitcoinica and other Bitcoin debacles have tended to be inaccurate and far from probing.  Investigative journalism isn't something we've really seen in relation to Bitcoin.

Quote from: Bruno
Also, I mentioned it once on this thread, and has been echoed in a different way: Iain, the liquidator, should look into Zhou's involvement in Bitcoinica. His actions should not be left off the table.

Zhou's role will be looked at but a liquidation isn't a criminal investigation, although it might reveal criminal actions which would be referred to the Serious Fraud Office for further investigation.  The role of a liquidator is quite specific, and even though Iain McLennan is fully qualified to do all sorts of financial investigations, he can only do the specific work for which he has been retained.  As his fees come directly from the insolvent estate, he's ethically bound not to waste money on matters which will not increase the return to creditors.

Quote
I spoke with Amir and Donald about Bitcoinica. I don't think it's likely they will help with the liquidation.

It's their right to do that but they need to bear in mind that their choice may have implications which extend beyond Bitcoinica.
donator
Activity: 544
Merit: 500
I'm at the conference. There are plenty of people here, more than last year. Boycotting it would be like shooting yourself in the foot.

I spoke with Amir and Donald about Bitcoinica. I don't think it's likely they will help with the liquidation.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
Quote
Seriously why are these guys still even allowed to talk at the conference in London. These guys should not even be related to bitcoins anymore. I still do not understand who still uses intersango after all this BS.
Because they're simultaneously organizing it and the only people participating. So in the sense everyone's allowed to talk in his own living room...

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I don't work for Intersango
Except you do.

Quote
Regarding the conference, it starts tomorrow(proper, started unofficially on Wed.), it's been mostly organised BY the guys from Intersango
Including you.

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we'll go and create the future of bitcoin without you
The only future you will create is the future news in the Cartmell suit / more luzly drama with the Global Scam Exchange.
Way to go with the partial statements however.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
If the reason for Amir and co for not distancing themselves from the conference is in fact that it's their own conference aka "Intersango's Bitcoin conference" you shouldn't ask yourself why the conference wasn't cancelled (next necessary step imo) but what the hell you are still doing there to support it.

On an upside, this conference will give people a chance to confront team Intersango with the issue in person. They really must have balls, I'm telling ya.

Indeed.

I can't wait to see them try and act stupid with a camera shoved in their faces ...

Too bad I am not bothered enough to attend their sham conference and do it myself.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
If the reason for Amir and co for not distancing themselves from the conference is in fact that it's their own conference aka "Intersango's Bitcoin conference" you shouldn't ask yourself why the conference wasn't cancelled (next necessary step imo) but what the hell you are still doing there to support it.

On an upside, this conference will give people a chance to confront team Intersango with the issue in person. They really must have balls, I'm telling ya.
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