Open Letter to GMaxwell and Sincere Rational Core Devs - page 49.

traincarswreck

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In this article I explain the movie biography, in relation to the REAL and ACCEPTED biography (because they are different since there are mistruths in the movie), and then I explain his REAL biography and everything is cited VERY well. It's VERY dense, and so I have compressed it as best I can, but the article resonated with many general readers it seems: https://medium.com/@rextar4444/20-years-ago-john-nash-re-defined-our-understanding-of-economics-again-and-we-still-havent-4f3b7f09fd0e#.b17kzf2ol

You can read this meme board right to left and top to bottom like a book: https://medium.com/@rextar4444/the-new-era-of-nashian-economcis-meme-storyboard-for-john-nashs-proposal-for-ideal-money-dd529039f221#.f3tqj9t3u

A quick summary with quotes only: https://medium.com/@rextar4444/bitcoin-ideal-money-and-the-end-of-the-keynesian-centrally-banking-era-john-nash-predicted-this-6738b79f20ab#.4c491cgqf

A general summary by me with quotes from ideal money: https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/07/12/a-general-summary-for-john-nashs-proposal-ideal-money/

And an esoteric summary which will make sense with the context of the above: https://thewealthofchips.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/the-totality-of-the-proposal-ideal-money/

traincarswreck

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Quote from: piotr_n on March 02, 2017, 12:27:23 PM

I'm sure the central bakers have read loads of books on economics.

Perhaps you will have better chances teaching them how to make a better money?

Hear from the man:

Quote

The script or plan for my talk linking the “ideal money” with the choices and actions of “thrift” or “savings” by persons or by “economic agents” was influenced by concerns that it would be wise not to speak too incautionsly of “the Keynesians” when the times are such that massive public opinions maybe supporting actions by which a state administration can act without going through the parliamentary processes to write new legislation.

   So in the rush of political campaigns and elections (for example in the USA) it is difficult to sell a national monetary policy which, if followed consistently on a “long run” level, would result in the specific nation state existing as if on a higher level of economic civilization.

   (For example, Sweden and Argentina might be usable, over a long time comparison, to represent comparable “economic civilizations”.)

   Therefore, I had arranged for 2012 to talk more cautiously in relation to whatever would impact with “the Keynesians” and with the political interest relating also to the scholarly factions allied with (or forming) “the Keynesians”.

   And this caution carries over naturally to 2013 also.

   ~public note from John Forbes Nash’s university homepage

Quote

The label “Keynesian” is convenient, but to be safe we should have a defined meaning for this as a party that can be criticized and contrasted with other parties.

So let us define “Keynesian” to be descriptive of a “school of thought” that originated at the time of the devaluations of the pound and the dollar in the early 30’s of the 20th century. Then, more specifically, a “Keynesian” would favor the existence of a “manipulative” state establishment of central bank and treasury which would continuously seek to achieve “economics welfare” objectives with comparatively little regard for the long term reputation of the national currency…~Ideal Money

You are asking me to do something Nash wouldn't dare.

traincarswreck

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Quote from: misterbigg on March 02, 2017, 03:23:54 PM

Quote from: traincarswreck on March 01, 2017, 11:39:44 PM

Bitcoin cannot be ideal money. Economists know this because money stable in value needs to be able to expand and contract with its underlying economy.

False.

Here's the first. Why wouldn't you explain. I think I know why you wouldn't explain.

Here is the thing. Ideal Money is money that has stable value over LONG periods of time.

A deflationary currency does not have that quality.

Bitcoin is deflationary.

Bitcoin's inflation schedule cannot be altered.

Bitcoin cannot be ideal money.

Now. Tell us. Refute it, or never return.

traincarswreck

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I'll get more specific but gimme a bit to think and write. But to those who say I don't explain. You don't know I have a history in the community of writing 100's of article citing and expounding on every aspect of his works. I was as meticulous and articulate as I am capable of, and its very easy to use google to search for it.

So what's happening is I did my homework ya'll haven't done yours. Which is ok. But I'm not the one that is guilty of not explaining.

That said I will try to answer those with sincere questions (ie just got home).

LoyceV

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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: traincarswreck on March 02, 2017, 02:06:41 AM

Theymos, what kind of a world do we live in if I have to explain what Nash's already explained? Why won't anyone read it? I mean I know but, I'm pretty sure he did a perfect job of explaining. What is the culture of refusing to read the source documents?

You're posting at a discussion forum. You got me curious with the "Open Letter to Core Devs" title, and while reading through your post I was hoping you would tell me what it's all about. Unfortunately, you don't explain that.
As theymos told you already: you mention Nash a few times. It's not my field of study, I've seen the name before, but I don't know more than just the name.
What is the point of posting: "read Nash"? What do you expect from this thread, a confirmation from people who read it? That's not helping anybody.

It would be very interesting if you could share your point of view without complaining about people you spoke to in "slack" (another term I've seen, but don't know what it is exactly). Write a complete post about it, explain your point of view, and convince me why a. you are right and b. why it matters whether or not Bitcoin is "ideal money".

misterbigg

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Quote from: traincarswreck on March 01, 2017, 11:39:44 PM

Bitcoin cannot be ideal money. Economists know this because money stable in value needs to be able to expand and contract with its underlying economy.

False.

Bitinvestor

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Quote from: traincarswreck on March 02, 2017, 03:03:27 AM

... to have a stable value a money need to be able to contract and expand ...

True, but Bitcoin wasn't designed to have a stable value. It was designed to be deflationary and you won't be able to change that. Go and start your own coin, but don't be surprised if nobody uses it.

pennywise

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Quote from: piotr_n on March 02, 2017, 11:52:04 AM

Quote from: traincarswreck on March 02, 2017, 11:42:36 AM

Quote from: piotr_n on March 02, 2017, 11:41:40 AM

The control of core developers (or any developers) over the future of bitcoin is hugely exaggerated.

Devs can add new features to the existing software, but they cannot change the blockchain protocol.
Only miners can.

So you're talking to the wrong people.

No I am not.

Let me ask you this, then.

Let's say there is a cataclysm, or whatever and every single "code dev" (whichever criteria you use to tag them) dies...

What effect, in your opinion, would such an event have on the bitcoin as the currency?

Right on!!!
The devs may write the code as much as they want, but if the miners won't like it, it will not be used. A nice example of this is SegWit code which is not accepted: https://blockchain.info/sl/charts/bip-9-segwit

This guy thinks that Bitcoin is centrally planned by core devs, which is fairly stupid.

piotr_n

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aka tonikt

Quote from: traincarswreck on March 02, 2017, 12:14:32 PM

Quote from: prezbo on March 02, 2017, 11:57:29 AM

Putting aside what core devs can or cannot do, traincarswreck what concretely are you proposing they should do? Apart from them acknowledging bitcoin cannot be ideal money I have not seen any concrete proposals from your end.

Yes you have. Stop trying to make bitcoin ideal money cause its a stupid thing to try to do. It's NOT possible, anyone with any understanding of money and macro economics KNOWS this. Is there any scientists here that read source documents? Has anyone here read a book on economics?

I'm sure the central bakers have read loads of books on economics.

Perhaps you will have better chances teaching them how to make a better money?

prezbo

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Quote from: traincarswreck on March 02, 2017, 12:14:32 PM

Quote from: prezbo on March 02, 2017, 11:57:29 AM

Putting aside what core devs can or cannot do, traincarswreck what concretely are you proposing they should do? Apart from them acknowledging bitcoin cannot be ideal money I have not seen any concrete proposals from your end.

Yes you have. Stop trying to make bitcoin ideal money cause its a stupid thing to try to do. It's NOT possible, anyone with any understanding of money and macro economics KNOWS this. Is there any scientists here that read source documents? Has anyone here read a book on economics?

I can see why people are making fun of you. You keep saying the same stuff over and over and have either a serious problem with reading comprehension or are not even trying.

traincarswreck

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Quote from: prezbo on March 02, 2017, 11:57:29 AM

Putting aside what core devs can or cannot do, traincarswreck what concretely are you proposing they should do? Apart from them acknowledging bitcoin cannot be ideal money I have not seen any concrete proposals from your end.

Yes you have. Stop trying to make bitcoin ideal money cause its a stupid thing to try to do. It's NOT possible, anyone with any understanding of money and macro economics KNOWS this. Is there any scientists here that read source documents? Has anyone here read a book on economics?

prezbo

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Putting aside what core devs can or cannot do, traincarswreck what concretely are you proposing they should do? Apart from them acknowledging bitcoin cannot be ideal money I have not seen any concrete proposals from your end.

piotr_n

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aka tonikt

Quote from: traincarswreck on March 02, 2017, 11:42:36 AM

Quote from: piotr_n on March 02, 2017, 11:41:40 AM

The control of core developers (or any developers) over the future of bitcoin is hugely exaggerated.

Devs can add new features to the existing software, but they cannot change the blockchain protocol.
Only miners can.

So you're talking to the wrong people.

No I am not.

Let me ask you this, then.

Let's say there is a cataclysm, or whatever and every single "code dev" (whichever criteria you use to tag them) dies...

What effect, in your opinion, would such an event have on the bitcoin as the currency?

traincarswreck

sr. member

Activity: 532

Merit: 251

Quote from: piotr_n on March 02, 2017, 11:41:40 AM

The control of core developers (or any developers) over the future of bitcoin is hugely exaggerated.

Devs can add new features to the existing software, but they cannot change the blockchain protocol.
Only miners can.

So you're talking to the wrong people.

No I am not.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

The control of core developers (or any developers) over the future of bitcoin is hugely exaggerated.

Devs can add new features to the existing software, but they cannot change the blockchain protocol.
Only miners can.

So you're talking to the wrong people.

traincarswreck

sr. member

Activity: 532

Merit: 251

Quote from: Yogafan00000 on March 02, 2017, 09:12:26 AM

C'mon buddy, every bitcoiner knows that the triffin dilemma doesn't apply to Bitcoin.

DO YOUR RESEARCH!!

bitcoin is the premise for nash's solution to the triffin dilemma. Do yours.

Yogafan00000

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C'mon buddy, every bitcoiner knows that the triffin dilemma doesn't apply to Bitcoin.

DO YOUR RESEARCH!!

7queue

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Quote from: traincarswreck on March 02, 2017, 03:03:27 AM

Quote from: mezzomix on March 02, 2017, 02:58:09 AM

Quote from: traincarswreck on March 01, 2017, 11:39:44 PM

Economists know this because money stable in value needs to be able to expand and contract with its underlying economy.

There is no single group of economists with a single _opinion_. Economics is a social science, most of the predictions are not falsifiable. A lot of economists drive the agenda of their masters. A good example for successfully using economics as a weapon is Ken Rogoff. A very good example of a failing economic model can be currently seen in india.

timeo oeconomicus et dona ferentes

no. non bitcoiner economists will tell you the same thing, to have a stable value a money need to be able to contract and expand. Your lack of knowledge on the subject doesn't change that.

And economic proposals are falsifiable now. You put them to the bitcoin network and if they are accepted then they are rational. I don't expect you to understand because you just suggest economics isn't a science. I don't think you know what science is.

Next.

"Emulating complex business cycles by using an electronic analogue" chaos theory?

A.I. the "Game Theory", this 20 years of study mentioned might bring to light the control/influence/plan of debt swap for real property, or is this reaching a Nakamoto paradigm? (Think 'cook the books')

8 )

traincarswreck

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Sometimes people say me things like, "blah blah blah this and that blah blah" and I tell them they are wrong and ignorant. And eventually they say, "hey do you have any links about this ideal money thing"

traincarswreck

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Merit: 251

Quote from: mezzomix on March 02, 2017, 02:58:09 AM

Quote from: traincarswreck on March 01, 2017, 11:39:44 PM

Economists know this because money stable in value needs to be able to expand and contract with its underlying economy.

There is no single group of economists with a single _opinion_. Economics is a social science, most of the predictions are not falsifiable. A lot of economists drive the agenda of their masters. A good example for successfully using economics as a weapon is Ken Rogoff. A very good example of a failing economic model can be currently seen in india.

timeo oeconomicus et dona ferentes

no. non bitcoiner economists will tell you the same thing, to have a stable value a money need to be able to contract and expand. Your lack of knowledge on the subject doesn't change that.

And economic proposals are falsifiable now. You put them to the bitcoin network and if they are accepted then they are rational. I don't expect you to understand because you just suggest economics isn't a science. I don't think you know what science is.

Next.

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