P - page 30. | Bitcointalksearch.org

MrTeal

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 05:20:53 PM

Quote from: MrTeal on August 02, 2012, 05:17:57 PM

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 05:09:16 PM

so which one would be is a rating system that you trust?
and also, you want people to send you bonds before you send them bitcoins - so it isn't really important if you trust the system, but it is only important if people who send you the bonds do trust the system, right?

The fact that you have bonds already shows you trust Goat. The bonds are just GLBSE's paper keeping for your money that Goat has in his Pirate account. Goat already has your BTC.

I disagree with the statement that there is the same trust to own the bonds, as to send a thousand of them to Goat, hoping for a payback in an offline bitcoin transaction.

Whatever happens on GLBSE can be verified by Nefario and you cannot actually screw one person without screwing the others (including the guys from a Russian mafia).
While (100% hypothetically!) after I sent him the bonds, how can I prove that he paid me for them after all?
It;s much harder then and even if I can prove it, there will be no Russian mafia going after him because I'm not one of them Tongue

Why would there have to be an offline transaction? You transfer the bonds to Goat, which incurs a 0.2% fee. Have Goat withdraw to his GLBSE account and transfer it to you there; there would be no fees with that other than maybe taking an extra day. If you want to be paid quicker directly post the desired address somewhere verifiable.

bitfoo

donator

Activity: 289

Merit: 250

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 05:20:53 PM

Whatever happens on GLBSE can be verified by Nefario and you cannot actually screw one person without screwing the others (including the guys from a Russian mafia).
While (100% hypothetically!) after I sent him the bonds, how can I prove that he paid me for them after all? It's much harder then...
And even if I could prove it, there would be no Russian mafia going after him, because I was the only one who got screwed over Tongue

He could simply send you the BTC through GLBSE too, that way it's verifiable by Nefario. Problem solved?

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

Quote from: MrTeal on August 02, 2012, 05:17:57 PM

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 05:09:16 PM

so which one would be is a rating system that you trust?
and also, you want people to send you bonds before you send them bitcoins - so it isn't really important if you trust the system, but it is only important if people who send you the bonds do trust the system, right?

The fact that you have bonds already shows you trust Goat. The bonds are just GLBSE's paper keeping for your money that Goat has in his Pirate account. Goat already has your BTC.

I disagree with the statement that there is the same trust needed to own the bonds, as to send a thousand of them to Goat, hoping for a payback in an offline bitcoin transaction.

Whatever happens on GLBSE can be verified by Nefario and you cannot actually screw one person without screwing the others (including the guys from a Russian mafia).
While (100% hypothetically!) after I sent him the bonds, how can I prove that he paid me for them after all? It's much harder then...
And even if I could prove it, there would be no Russian mafia going after him, because I was the only one who got screwed over Tongue

MrTeal

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 05:09:16 PM

so which one would be is a rating system that you trust?
and also, you want people to send you bonds before you send them bitcoins - so it isn't really important if you trust the system, but it is only important if people who send you the bonds do trust the system, right?

The fact that you have bonds already shows you trust Goat. The bonds are just GLBSE's paper keeping for your money that Goat has in his Pirate account. Goat already has your BTC.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 05:02:32 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 04:59:44 PM

Don't take me wrong.
I am only saying that if there are (and there are) people who sell the bonds at 0.97 then they are either stupid or they prefer to loose the 3% just to avoid making a direct business with you.

i would say either in a hurry or stupid

ok.

anyway, you can take my word that when I decide to sell my bonds, I will contact you.
and then I'd appreciate you having an OTC rating so I could give you one and get back one from you Tongue

I do not support OTC because people can and do leave ratings for personal reasons that do not involve trading. It is not a rating system that I trust.

so which one would be is a rating system that you trust?
and also, you want people to send you bonds before you send them bitcoins - so it isn't really important if you trust the system, but it is only important if people who send you the bonds do trust the system, right?

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 04:59:44 PM

Don't take me wrong.
I am only saying that if there are (and there are) people who sell the bonds at 0.97 then they are either stupid or they prefer to loose the 3% just to avoid making a direct business with you.

i would say either in a hurry or stupid

ok.

anyway, you can take my word that when I decide to sell my bonds, I will contact you via private means.
but even then I'd appreciate you having an OTC rating so I could give you one and get back one from you Tongue

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

Don't take me wrong.
I am only saying that if there are (and there are) people who sell the bonds at 0.97 then they are either stupid or they prefer to loose the 3% just to avoid making a direct business with you.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 04:48:17 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 04:38:07 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

yeah because these bonds pay such a crazy amount of interest the best way to do it for a large amount of bonds is to send me first then i pull from pirate and then send you directly. lowest way on fees too.

well, in such a case one question comes to my mind: do you have some bitcoin-otc rating? Wink

lol nope:)

then I think anyone would rather send your bonds to pirate and ask him to send back the money... Tongue

or maybe it's just the time to start building up the rating.

really if you dont trust me to pay for your bonds you should not do business with me. also if you send and i said you did not trust me nefario would make it public...

It isn't me who doesn't trust you - I'm not the one who sells the bonds below 1.0
But obviously there are some trust issues and ignoring them is probably not the best solution for any further Tygrr businesses.

MrTeal

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 04:48:17 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 04:38:07 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

yeah because these bonds pay such a crazy amount of interest the best way to do it for a large amount of bonds is to send me first then i pull from pirate and then send you directly. lowest way on fees too.

well, in such a case one question comes to my mind: do you have some bitcoin-otc rating? Wink

lol nope:)

then I think anyone would rather send your bonds to pirate and ask him to send back the money... Tongue

or maybe it's just the time to start building up the rating.

Why? There's no more risk with this than there is with the standard bond transactions. It's not like GLBSE actually holds the funds; if Goat wanted to he could keep the 30k BTC and stop paying dividends. There's not a lot that GLBSE or the bond holders could do other than bitch to Pirate or file a police report/sue him.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

in any case I (and probably other people as well) would appreciate you taking some steps to make sure the price of the bonds never goes below 1.0

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piotr_n on August 02, 2012, 04:38:07 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

yeah because these bonds pay such a crazy amount of interest the best way to do it for a large amount of bonds is to send me first then i pull from pirate and then send you directly. lowest way on fees too.

well, in such a case one question comes to my mind: do you have some bitcoin-otc rating? Wink

lol nope:)

then I think anyone would rather send your bonds to pirate and ask him to send back the money... Tongue

or maybe it's just the time to start building up the rating.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1356

aka tonikt

Quote from: ?? on ??

yeah because these bonds pay such a crazy amount of interest the best way to do it for a large amount of bonds is to send me first then i pull from pirate and then send you directly. lowest way on fees too.

well, in such a case one question comes to my mind: do you have some bitcoin-otc rating? Wink

MrTeal

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1004

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piotr_n on July 18, 2012, 09:25:22 AM

@Goat, would you be able to not only sell, but also buy back bonds on weekly basis, at a fixed price?
I think 1.00 right after the divs get paid would be a fair rate.

Or maybe, to make it simple, you could just have some 1.00 bit active for all the time being?

i have said before if someone wants to sell i will buy at 1. they just need to let me know how much and give me a reasonable amount of time to get the funds to glbse.

thanks

Can you clarify how this would work, Goat? Could we let you know that we are planning on selling X number of shares for 1.0 on Tuesday after the dividends are paid and you would buy those shares on the open market, or would we transfer X number of shares to you and you would just send us X*1.00 BTC?

unclescrooge

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Wahoo, some cheap shares to get, I like that Cheesy

jackmaninov

full member

Activity: 139

Merit: 100

Yarr, someone be dumping a mighty haul of booty after 11 bells (CST):

Tomatocage

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1222

brb keeping up with the Kardashians

Goat, will you be able to issue more bonds next week?

Tomatocage

legendary

Activity: 1554

Merit: 1222

brb keeping up with the Kardashians

There's some nice deals going on for these bonds right now.

silverbox

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1003

Thanks for the update Goat!

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Quite a few shares for sale at very nice rates, considering that in a few minutes or hours there will be a dividend of 0.068 BTC paid and you can sell back to goat (or others quite often) at 1 BTC... Wink

SaintFlow

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

The first is by definition not flawed.

Will you be stuck somewhere today, too?

Topic: P - page 30. (Read 78397 times)