Topic: PAJKA.BOND - 100% PPS 15Mhash mining bond - page 11. (Read 24950 times)

I do.

.b

And curiously want to know...do you hold any amount of PAJKA bond?

I do not need to know...if I see my return is not good in the future..I am better to exit the market now....

Well, obviously you really do not know how bonds work. I hope you don't get burned by that lack of knowledge, but I'm afraid that if you expect a bond issuer to just give you money out of the kindness of their hearts, then you'll definitely be burned.

.b

Lending money from bank require collateral....PMB not.....Lending money from banks certainly involving monitoring process to the business..
PBM not...thus your propose here is not applicable. Interest rate is different to the hashrate here....Interest rate is pre-determined and will not change by anything else(book value is fixed)...Hashrate is not equal to interest rate...(Hashrate will absolutely increase over time)....therefore the dividend received by its shareholder is will definitely decrease)...I am not giving any unreasonable suggestion here, I am saying that PAJKA could secure its dividend to its shareholder's by link up with ASICMINER'S hashrate...As I invested this bonds because the issuer has hold AM's shares as HASHRATE power to generate dividend to me....this is the place I consider those ASICMINER's shares are the Collaterals to allows me to trusted this issuer......thus I think I have the right to ask the shareholder increase this bond's hashrate.......if without link up with those ASICMINER'S shares I do not believe the issuer can get trusted by new investors.....

The whole point of a PMB is that the interest grows to zero over time, as long as difficulty increases. This is exactly the same as a loan, in which interest eventually decreases to zero. The main difference is that if difficulty does not go up, the interest is higher. With a loan, the interest gets higher based on the general economy (if it has a flexible interest at all).

How on earth can you even consider investing in a PMB, much less set one up, unless you understand these extremely basic concepts?

Hang on, I have an idea. Why don't I lend you 100 BTC at an interest of 10% per year. Then, as you pay down, I'll come and ask you to pay 15% instead, just because, you know, you want you to build confidence. Then, I'll tell you how to use those 100 BTC and if you don't use them the way I say, I'll bitch that you could have made much more money if you did like I said and probably say that you're a bad manager who doesn't listen to his lenders.

Oh, and by accepting my loan, you're forbidden to take up any other loan for any purpose from anyone ever again regardless of terms because doing so would ruin my confidence in you.

Does that sound like a reasonable plan? If not, why would you suggest the exact same thing to the issuer of PAJKA?

Geez, I'm going to have to write an article to explain this...

.b

I know this is bond...of course....the question here is simple whether the issuer wants to finish his IPO and get BTC in hand to purchase more rigs and double capital in a year time and also increase the confidence of its bond holders...or no update , Bondholder received less and less dividend until it become 0.00000001 per shares.....and buying back his bonds at incredibly low price.....I think PMB is really a good business to get in...I might also consider to set up one for my self....hah

Now you're making even less sense.

It doesn't matter how the issuer has or gets the money; there's no incentive to give it to you!

And why would anyone feel cheated for an issuer issuing another bond? Would you feel cheated if your bank gave another loan to a different customer on different terms?

This is not a business; it is a bond. There is no business to grow. It is simply a loan of money and no point in growing. In fact, the whole point of getting a loan is to finance something that gives you more in return.

It is probably easier for you to understand if you completely ignore the mining aspect of this. The mining aspect is irrelevant because you do not care how you get the money, you care only for getting the money. Whether there is a mining operation behind, a set of stocks, or just a kind uncle paying the interest (which is what you're getting; don't kid yourself on the dividend thing) is completely irrelevant to you as long as you get what the contract states.

Look at TAT.VM pending on BTCT. It is a mining bond that isn't backed by mining at all, it is backed, perpetually, by proceeeds from holding AM shares. That doesn't matter to anyone; the interest is fixed at whatever 1MH/s yields for a given period. TAT can fund this from growing pot in his backyard for all you care.

.b

Anyway just a suggestion here ..the cost to double its hashrate per bond is very small ,since this issuer already hold enough shares of AM to allows him to doing that .. post a new contract for bonds not only will cost him, also will led ripped out of its old investors. .Remember here double its hashrate is not equal to double in dividend..Anyway this is not a single side benefit , as I stated if the issuer is consider to growth its business and get more available funds for him to invest in, that to boost his IPO process finished is still the cheapest way and most effective way.. As long as people are doubt of BFL.....

Anyway just a suggestion here ..the cost to double its hashrate per bond is very small ,since this issuer already hold enough shares of AM to allows him to doing that .. post a new contract for bonds not only will cost him, also will led ripped out of its old investors. .Remember here double its hashrate is not equal to double in dividend..Anyway this is not a single side benefit , as I stated if the issuer is consider to growth its business and get more available funds for him to invest in, that to boost his IPO process finished is still the cheapest way and most effective way.. As long as people are doubt of BFL.....

I've done the math, so don't worry about that. I just don't see why you think it makes sense for anyone to give money away. If the issuer does not have the funds to complete the contract, then that is a completely different issue, but as far as I've been able to understand, that is not the issue here as the current hashrate is backed well by AM shares and funds and the expected increase later is at an undefined point in time.

Consider this: If the issuer wants to get more funds using different terms, it makes no sense to give away free money to the people with whom the issuer already has a contract. The issuer can simply create a new bond with different terms and if the market wants that, the market will buy the bonds.

Again, your proposal is simply asking for more money with nothing in return. The issuer has no motivation what so ever to give you that, unless it is out of a charitable approach, in which case I would question the issuer's financial acumen and probably keep that in mind for any future assets from that issuer.

If you do not like the terms of your contract, you can sell. If you like the terms of the contract, you can buy. Trying to renegotiate with a single-sided benefit only will not work.

.b

OK...But the truth here is PAJKA BOND does not finish its IPO process....This only depend on whether the issuer try to quickly finished its IPO or not...if not...I think he will absolutely accepted the low trading volume in the market......if he urgently needs capital to fundraising its project..like I say that ordering Blade or other mining rigs..... I do not have the time to do the math for you ...but I can tell you if the IPO is finished in very short time, the issuer can get more funds to buy those rigs...and the funds he received can produce double value in a year......Remember since all fund is received in BTC and all rigs are pay in BTC...The issuer can double its capitals in a year time...without the risk of volatility of BTC...

I'm struggling to grasp the accurate meaning of what you're saying, but you're solely talking about benefits to you. Let's make it simple.

DO NOT mention share price, as this is solely a benefit to you (and is irrelevant to the issuer because the bonds on the market are already sold)
DO NOT mention hashrate, as this is solely a benefit to you (and is an added expense to the issuer which is a pretty clear disadvantage)

Now explain to me, what does the issuer get out of this, considering the bonds on the market are already sold at a well-known and clear-cut contract?

Remember, don't mention shareprice or dividends; those either do not benefit the issuer or benefits you only.

.b

The return here is simple, by assurance to investors confidence of this bond.will increase its rate of acceptance of this bond...and the shareholder could generate more BTC in short time...Currently market price for ASICMINER'S BLADE is cost 50 BTC..it will pay out itself in 145 days.....if PAJKA finished its IPO process as quick as possibly...the funds still can pay out far weighted its cost....

The doubling was part of the contract you purchased. You didn't answer my question; what does the issuer get in return for giving you more money? At this point, you're only begging for money but not offering anything in return.

.b

I understand that PAJKA is bond not a shares....Since PAJKA bond does double its dividend as ASICMINER reached 12TH/S....and I remember that PAJKA BOND'S dividend is part backing by ASICMINER'S hashrate....therefore I wrote this suggestion to the issuer...this may be the time to double its hashrate per bond...

PAJKA is a bond, not a share in a company. There is absolutely no reason why the issuer would want to give you more money. Think of it like this; a bond is like a loan where you know in advance exactly what you will be getting in return (in this case a certain hash rate). What you are asking is that the borrower (or issuer in this case) should just start giving you more than you're entitled to so that you can get more when you resell your debt.

What is the benefit to the issuer here?

.b

I have a suggestion here,since ASICMINER is close to 24 TH, if Pajka bond increase its hashrate per shares again.this will greatly attracted new shareholders?  Currently 3M hash per share at a price of 0.11 is not so attractive for new shareholders...TAT.Vituralmine provide 1Mhash at 0.007, RPM provide 25.2Mhash at 0.4 and PAMB 100M hash at 1.3.....

Yes - partialy. Partialy from dividends on ASICMINER shares I still own and partialy from the mined BTC using my HW.
Yes, it is fixed hash rate of 3mhash/s and it will upgrade to fixed rate of 15mhash/s when BFL delivers to me.
If the difficulty goes down you earn more, if it goes up (much more probable) you earn less. But keep in mind that if you buy mining HW it is the same or even worse because you have still to operate it and pay for electricity and so on.
When I would buy back? Well I would be probably buying the bond back in the case that the BTC price is going down which would mean that the operationg prices would be high in BTC. There is no reason to do that earlier unless the bonds is trading heavilly undervalued - then I could buy it partially back on the market.
Well, if you buy into PAJKA.BOND you are in for both - the profit and the risk.
I believe that BFL will deliver - the question is when.
I am honest person and so if they would refund orders instead of delivering I would buy some other BTC ASIC HW and match the offer I did with BFL HW.
200 ASICMINER shares are 10ghash/s (plus extras from sold HW) and my HW does 2.6ghash/s. That is 12.6ghash/s.
There are 4563 PAJKA.BONDs out @3mhash/s. That is 13.6ghash/s.
The difference is only 1ghash/s and it can be very easily covered with the cash from sold ASICMINER shares for many years.
I am now offering the bonds at a premium - so if they are selling even at a premium I can use the money from the sale to cover them with more ASICMINER shares for example.
But honestly I expect that more will be selling after BFL delivers to me and bonds upgrade to 15mhash/s. We will see where the PAJKA.BOND price goes then.
You are welcome.

How about if bfl is not deliver nor refund the BTC back to you ? what will you do then?