PAJKA.BOND - 100% PPS 15Mhash mining bond - page 9.

SOSLOVE868

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: furuknap on June 07, 2013, 01:51:52 PM

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:29:42 PM

Thus stuck in that position or sell at loss price!!!!!

“Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.”

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:29:42 PM

PMB is god damn sick trap!!! I am happy I only lift 60 shares !!!!

It may have been a trap for you but only because you bought something you didn't understand. That is your failure, not that of the asset type.

And how to you 'lift' shares at all, not to mention these aren't shares but bonds?

You further mentioned that you held 450 'shares' just a few days ago. Are these lifting shares related to that number in any way?

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:29:42 PM

if anyone think I am wrong, you better prove you are right!!!

That's not exactly how proving a claim works. It is whoever makes a claim that bears the burden of proof. However, I'm confidend that the majority understand how bonds work, even if you didn't. There is nothing for us to prove; it is you that is making the claim that this is a scam.

I hope you realize how you're looking in this forum right now and that you take a bit of time to relax, take a few steps back, and come back when you've read up on the basics.

.b

increase difficulty 26% roughly equal to times 0.83 to current dividend....0.0001087X0.83(9) three months will adjust difficulty by 9 times.. after that 0.00002 ....total dividend needs to be paid for today's 4810 contracts is 0.08 BTC..... and continue decrease......... because the contract never mentioned when the issuer will buying back.....if I am the issuer I will continued pay you the needless dividend....And do not hope anyone will buy over your contract at that time...

furuknap

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:46:33 PM

I believe USA treasuries has a maturity date.....but how about this one? Huh

?

I believe the 'perpetual' part of the name had you confused?

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:46:33 PM

as long as mining is profitable, the difficulty will increase..and the improvement on developing those mining rigs ,is far beyond your think....If you now that ASICMINER only use 230NM technique to produce their Chips ...but the majority technique worldwide to produce chips is 5nm today(Intel or Navidian has 0.5NM)!!!!! and if you do not believe what I said go do your math online....the difficulty has increase 26%(Even lot of miners not delivery yet) since last time...you could use this figure to calculating what is the dividend three months later. and remember that difficulty adjust its self roughly 10 days a time.....

Look, SOSLOVE, you are making such a fool of yourself that I'm wondering whether you are real or just a troll.

AM doesn't use 230nm. Nobody has 5nm chips anywhere and 0.5 nm is somewhat a physical impossibility as it would require splitting silicon atoms and still have silicon atoms at the end. It is estimated that a 5nm chip may come out in 2022. And even when they do, chip design isn't exchangable 1:1 for a new design.

So again you're demonstrating that you have no idea what you're talking about. I strongly suggest you stop making accusations and claims that have no basis in reality because you are easily proven wrong.

You are clearly going to lose more money if you base your investment on your own rationales so perhaps taking some time away from investing may be a good idea too? Perhaps buy into a fund instead?

.b

SOSLOVE868

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: furuknap on June 07, 2013, 01:51:52 PM

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:29:42 PM

Thus stuck in that position or sell at loss price!!!!!

“Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.”

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:29:42 PM

PMB is god damn sick trap!!! I am happy I only lift 60 shares !!!!

It may have been a trap for you but only because you bought something you didn't understand. That is your failure, not that of the asset type.

And how to you 'lift' shares at all, not to mention these aren't shares but bonds?

You further mentioned that you held 450 'shares' just a few days ago. Are these lifting shares related to that number in any way?

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:29:42 PM

if anyone think I am wrong, you better prove you are right!!!

That's not exactly how proving a claim works. It is whoever makes a claim that bears the burden of proof. However, I'm confidend that the majority understand how bonds work, even if you didn't. There is nothing for us to prove; it is you that is making the claim that this is a scam.

I hope you realize how you're looking in this forum right now and that you take a bit of time to relax, take a few steps back, and come back when you've read up on the basics.

.b

I am not native English speaker...If I use wrong words..just ignoring it....thanks
anyway, I just believe difficulty will increase more than 26% each ten days...because ASICs are coming...and the low technique was used for producing those chips......I did the math yesterdays....if difficulty increase 26% each ten days...then the dividend will soon become needless..(based on BTC price will increase, more and more people jumping with their ASIC).. and PMB assets only describe the shares has the right to buy it back at market price...In the long-run they absolutely has the right to pays you little dividend and perpetually holds your fund....if you think you can get dividend faster than the time your asset has loss its value...

furuknap

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:29:42 PM

Thus stuck in that position or sell at loss price!!!!!

“Five exclamation marks, the sure sign of an insane mind.”

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:29:42 PM

PMB is god damn sick trap!!! I am happy I only lift 60 shares !!!!

It may have been a trap for you but only because you bought something you didn't understand. That is your failure, not that of the asset type.

And how to you 'lift' shares at all, not to mention these aren't shares but bonds?

You further mentioned that you held 450 'shares' just a few days ago. Are these lifting shares related to that number in any way?

Quote from: SOSLOVE868 on June 07, 2013, 01:29:42 PM

if anyone think I am wrong, you better prove you are right!!!

That's not exactly how proving a claim works. It is whoever makes a claim that bears the burden of proof. However, I'm confidend that the majority understand how bonds work, even if you didn't. There is nothing for us to prove; it is you that is making the claim that this is a scam.

I hope you realize how you're looking in this forum right now and that you take a bit of time to relax, take a few steps back, and come back when you've read up on the basics.

.b

SOSLOVE868

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: furuknap on June 07, 2013, 02:52:22 AM

Quote from: jjdub7 on June 07, 2013, 02:39:12 AM

Quote from: hl5460 on June 07, 2013, 02:36:06 AM

PAJKA's div is 10870 [email protected] while TAT's virutualmine div is 3223 [email protected] . You do the math.....

Then if investors are smart, they'll bid up the price of TAT's bond to match the rate of return of PAJKA's within seconds of the issuance...

You assume a rational market. A market, mind you, that includes people like SOS who would rather give money away in a vain attempt to hurt someone than just walk away with money in his pocket.

PAJKA is not necessarily a better deal than TAT.VM. At some point, PAJKA will pay the equivalent (by today's standard) of 54280 satoshis per share, whereas TAT.VM is currencly paying around 30000 satoshis at a comparable price.

Will TAT.VM's 'lead' of 19K satoshis lead until BFL ships be enough to offset the lead PAJKA will get until bonds are unprofitable? That depends on when BFL ships to PAJKA. It's not as clear cut as you make it out to be, though.

.b

I hope you really get your money back at today's rate.....

SOSLOVE868

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: furuknap on June 07, 2013, 01:49:30 AM

Quote from: jjdub7 on June 07, 2013, 01:26:10 AM

People who mention an IPO obviously don't know the premise behind a coupon-paying bond...same thing with US treasuries, this isn't a sale of equity, but rather an open-market issuance of debt. There's no hard cap on the number of shares that can contractually be issued because you're not buying into physical assets/there's no equity backing the bonds (as opposed to the normal case with stocks, where the stockholder is promised his or her share of the company assets in the event of liquidation, although in many cases of BTC stocks, even this isn't promised).

Good point, and I think I'll include this in my article if you don't mind me referencing you?

.b

I believe USA treasuries has a maturity date.....but how about this one? Huh

?as long as mining is profitable, the difficulty will increase..and the improvement on developing those mining rigs ,is far beyond your think....If you now that ASICMINER only use 230NM technique to produce their Chips ...but the majority technique worldwide to produce chips is 5nm today(Intel or Navidian has 0.5NM)!!!!! and if you do not believe what I said go do your math online....the difficulty has increase 26%(Even lot of miners not delivery yet) since last time...you could use this figure to calculating what is the dividend three months later. and remember that difficulty adjust its self roughly 10 days a time.....

SOSLOVE868

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: hl5460 on June 07, 2013, 02:49:34 AM

Quote from: jjdub7 on June 07, 2013, 02:39:12 AM

Quote from: hl5460 on June 07, 2013, 02:36:06 AM

PAJKA's div is 10870 [email protected] while TAT's virutualmine div is 3223 [email protected] . You do the math.....

Then if investors are smart, they'll bid up the price of TAT's bond to match the rate of return of PAJKA's within seconds of the issuance...

EDIT: And I mean this from a two-sided perspective. PAJKA bond-holders, DO NOT SELL. This is classic game theory with two alternatives - either PAJKA holders will sell low or TAT holders will bid up. If the PAJKA group holds their ask line, it should drive the TAT price up.

Also, why would TAT offer such a higher coupon (its a coupon in this case - dividends are via stocks) when he's perfectly free to match PAJKA's rate or JAH's rate on BitFunder? To me, it seems like he's overpaying, especially with the reputation he's built up with the AM micro-PT...

Option 1: bid up PAJKA.
Option 2: Dump PAJKA.
Plus both TAT and PAJKA's divs are dropping dramatically as dif goes up.

Bad news for everyone buying TAT.V above 0.007 ,Because TAT has told in this forum, he will issue as many as he want...depend on the demand...another problem here, this guy is very smart...if he slowly issue new contract at 0.007 , if investors notice about it, it will caused less people willing to buy any price above 0.007... I hope you better understand the story here, TAT is continued issuing new shares...
If whole network difficult is steady increasing , during the time.... assume some one issuing another PMB with higher HASH RATE...this guy could be TAT....then it will turn to be very very difficult for current TAT.V holders to sell their BOND contract...Thus stuck in that position or sell at loss price!!!!!

PMB is god damn sick trap!!! I am happy I only lift 60 shares !!!! the only way you can win the issuer is BTC price damn drop....No body want to mining more.....the issuer takes money from you at current rate...but only needs to be pay you back at the price is damn low....!!!

if anyone think I am wrong, you better prove you are right!!!

Tafelpoot

full member

Activity: 191

Merit: 100

I had seen that. However he got another proposal for some jalapenos, with order nr around 18k.
Those will ship most likely in about 2 weeks ... But if he ordered a minirig, it may take way longer...
BTW, I'm not worrying. The sell panic has got me some good deals.

furuknap

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: Tafelpoot on June 07, 2013, 05:01:27 AM

Hey xkrikl, can you give some more details on your BFL order?
Which & how many units did you order?
I assume it will restore thrust in the shares.
Thanks

They are bonds, not shares.

And why would you worry about what the order is? It can be from the Unicorn series of which PAJKA is the only customer. You get 15 mhs regardless.

The order number, which may indicate shipping priority, is here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1746782

.b

Tafelpoot

full member

Activity: 191

Merit: 100

Hey xkrikl, can you give some more details on your BFL order?
Which & how many units did you order?
I assume it will restore thrust in the shares.
Thanks

jjdub7

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 502

And also, SOS hasn't hurt anyone. I don't plan on selling anytime soon, so the current market conditions are irrelevant to me. Keep in mind everyone that the bond itself isn't worth BTC...its price is determined by the PDV of future coupon payments and every market participant's preferences for liquidity and risk (risk being virtually only determined by the change in difficulty - this is where the TAT investment gets dicey IMO because there is no option to upgrade).

jjdub7

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 502

Yes, assuming the rational market...if PAJKA holders hold, TAT's debt should increase if his bond price is bid up, making this a potentially very dangerous bet for TAT in the long run if he cannot maintain cash flows (however, I've followed TAT's activity and he seems to know what he's doing). Yet if the ask on TAT's bonds rises, this would mean it would be much, much harder for him to initiate a buyback of his debt under his current contract...

furuknap

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: jjdub7 on June 07, 2013, 02:39:12 AM

Quote from: hl5460 on June 07, 2013, 02:36:06 AM

PAJKA's div is 10870 [email protected] while TAT's virutualmine div is 3223 [email protected] . You do the math.....

Then if investors are smart, they'll bid up the price of TAT's bond to match the rate of return of PAJKA's within seconds of the issuance...

You assume a rational market. A market, mind you, that includes people like SOS who would rather give money away in a vain attempt to hurt someone than just walk away with money in his pocket.

PAJKA is not necessarily a better deal than TAT.VM. At some point, PAJKA will pay the equivalent (by today's standard) of 54280 satoshis per share, whereas TAT.VM is currencly paying around 30000 satoshis at a comparable price.

Will TAT.VM's 'lead' of 19K satoshis lead until BFL ships be enough to offset the lead PAJKA will get until bonds are unprofitable? That depends on when BFL ships to PAJKA. It's not as clear cut as you make it out to be, though.

.b

hl5460

legendary

Activity: 1620

Merit: 1000

news.8btc.com

Quote from: jjdub7 on June 07, 2013, 02:39:12 AM

Quote from: hl5460 on June 07, 2013, 02:36:06 AM

PAJKA's div is 10870 [email protected] while TAT's virutualmine div is 3223 [email protected] . You do the math.....

Then if investors are smart, they'll bid up the price of TAT's bond to match the rate of return of PAJKA's within seconds of the issuance...

EDIT: And I mean this from a two-sided perspective. PAJKA bond-holders, DO NOT SELL. This is classic game theory with two alternatives - either PAJKA holders will sell low or TAT holders will bid up. If the PAJKA group holds their ask line, it should drive the TAT price up.

Also, why would TAT offer such a higher coupon (its a coupon in this case - dividends are via stocks) when he's perfectly free to match PAJKA's rate or JAH's rate on BitFunder? To me, it seems like he's overpaying, especially with the reputation he's built up with the AM micro-PT...

Option 1: bid up PAJKA.
Option 2: Dump PAJKA.
Plus both TAT and PAJKA's divs are dropping dramatically as dif goes up.

Kyune

sr. member

Activity: 287

Merit: 250

Quote from: jjdub7 on June 07, 2013, 02:39:12 AM

Quote from: hl5460 on June 07, 2013, 02:36:06 AM

PAJKA's div is 10870 [email protected] while TAT's virutualmine div is 3223 [email protected] . You do the math.....

Then if investors are smart, they'll bid up the price of TAT's bond to match the rate of return of PAJKA's within seconds of the issuance...

The extra zero after the decimal in the share price for TAT means TAT pays better presently. I think hl5460 was trying to say TAT is a better deal and PAJKA is overpriced.

But what complicates the comparison is the prospect that PAJKA will, at some future date uncertain, begin receiving a 5x multiplier to its dividend. TAT has no such prospect.

jjdub7

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 502

Quote from: hl5460 on June 07, 2013, 02:36:06 AM

PAJKA's div is 10870 [email protected] while TAT's virutualmine div is 3223 [email protected] . You do the math.....

Then if investors are smart, they'll bid up the price of TAT's bond to match the rate of return of PAJKA's within seconds of the issuance...

EDIT: And I mean this from a two-sided perspective. PAJKA bond-holders, DO NOT SELL. This is classic game theory with two alternatives - either PAJKA holders will sell low or TAT holders will bid up. If the PAJKA group holds their ask line, it should drive the TAT price up.

Also, why would TAT offer such a higher coupon (its a coupon in this case - dividends are via stocks) when he's perfectly free to match PAJKA's rate or JAH's rate on BitFunder? To me, it seems like he's overpaying, especially with the reputation he's built up with the AM micro-PT...

hl5460

legendary

Activity: 1620

Merit: 1000

news.8btc.com

PAJKA's div is 10870 [email protected] while TAT's virutualmine div is 3223 [email protected] . You do the math.....

furuknap

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: jjdub7 on June 07, 2013, 02:14:03 AM

I can't understand why people are selling right now, either.

You say 'people' like it would indicate more than one person. The volume these past few days isn't more than SOS claims to have dumped. It seems that the embarrasment of publicly demonstrating and admitting lack of knowledge wasn't enough, so a financial self-slap in the face was required.

I'm not sure if SOS is trying to get back at the issuer or me, but suffice to say, I've made some purchases these past couple of days :-)

.b

EDIT: You don't have to look further than the trade patterns to see that this is just someone trying to drive the price down. Whenever there is a market buy, a single share is sold at market bid to give the illusion of a downward trend. It's silly, really, but let him cry himself to sleep...

jjdub7

hero member

Activity: 938

Merit: 502

I can't understand why people are selling right now, either. The bond has one of the highest returns of the assets on BTC-TC even in its pre-upgrade state. And apparently BFL has actually started shipping on a limited basis (there are reports of units coming in, and while it could be spam, its starting to sound like they're starting to legitimize themselves).

EDIT: And at these now-lower prices, its going to drive that return through the roof. Its not like there's as much risk associated with these bonds as there is with stocks...

furuknap

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Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: BTCThousandaire on June 07, 2013, 01:57:49 AM

Please everyone stop selling the bonds. I am not selling, the returns are fine for now. I don't think it's time to cash out yet.

The other aspect of this is that the issuer can repurchase the bonds at well below issuing price because one whiny kid didn't get the first thing about investment.

.b

Topic: PAJKA.BOND - 100% PPS 15Mhash mining bond - page 9. (Read 24950 times)