Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation - page 11. (Read 156711 times)

I'll +1 this, but with a caveat: Words mean things! When Mad Max espoused this famous Jews commit while in a drunken state of mind, we did learn, albeit later, that that were his true feelings. Same goes for any person claiming to not be racist, but is caught using the N-word in context. I watched the video, and am here to say that I'm not too sure if what was said is out of context.

~Bruno~

What is up is that you are (obviously) taking it out of context.

People really need to check with legal advisors in their own jurisdictions.  In mine, the regulators who oversee financial service providers do not assist with debt recovery.  They fine the wrong-doers (and may revoke their licence if they're licensed).  The fact of an entity having been sanctioned can then be used as the basis of a civil action.

Public prosecutors could become involved if there is sufficient evidence of criminal activity, but that's a separate area of law than either creditors taking legal action for the recovery of funds or regulators imposing sanctions.  If there is a criminal investigation, it's likely that all assets will be frozen until that investigation is complete.  If there's a civil action commenced, it's likely that one of the first motions filed will be for an injunction which prevents Bitcoinica touching the remaining assets for any purpose until the matter is determined.  People could take individual actions, but any payments made could be subject to claw back if and when Bitcoinica becomes formally insolvent (if you can't pay everyone, you can't legally give one unsecured creditor priority over others).

By far the quickest way for people to get the available funds returned to them is voluntary or involuntary liquidation of Bitcoinica.  This ensures that the estate is distributed according to law and the process is overseen by a court.  It can be a lengthy process (3-6 months), but not in the same ball park as class actions.  It's advantageous in that from the moment the liquidation process starts the assets are no longer under the control of the company principals.  Liquidators can look for third party investors to bail the company out (in practice, rather than actively looking they will consider offer which would benefit those owed money) or allow the company to trade out of trouble if they believe that this would result in a greater return in a reasonable amount of time.

Insolvency proceedings don't prevent users from exploring other avenues of redress.

Perhaps there should be a "find the Bitcoinica hacker" challenge issued at DEF CON.

Yeah what is up with that? @4:50:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ2rb4pHH1g#t=4m45s

Sure, I'm probably obviously taking this quote out of context but still...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ2rb4pHH1g

Yea he looks really depressed. Especially when he frantically laughs when he says how easy it is to steal money.

Aren't there laws in place in most jurisdictions where the DA goes after perpetrators when a serious infraction occurs. Remember, we're talking about a money exchange of sorts that's highly regulated. I don't see the need for anybody who lost money to get a lawyer. I do see the concerns of Bitcoinica, et al., needing legal counsel in several States to protect themselves from the respective DAs.

~Bruno~

hopefully that genjix has relaxed his brain at the hack conference, and come back with some acceptable plan.

I want my money back. 100% of money.  If I don't see the hope of it, I preserve my right for taking legal action.

Sadly I believe you would be correct.

I think you'll find that's their perceived value of an American (i.e. USA) life.

Hmmm, I wonder why the Octomom (woman who had 8 babies at once after already having 6) is currently having to strip to make ends meet.  At what age does this value kick in?

A better example:  Let's say a forum member is very lazy and does not want to work.  He threatens to kill himself unless we donate to him a million dollars worth of bitcoins ( an extreme value based on his worth of $7 MILLION!).  Obviously we don't do it.  Does that make us all murderous fucktards?

BTW, the US government actually has hard numbers that they assign to the value of a human life. The EPA currently has a statistical average value of a human life pegged between 5 and 7 million US dollars.

lol

Murderous fucktard alert

You and I have differing opinions.  Several hundred thousand dollars is certainly worth more than a person's life.  

Yeah, that concerns me, and it's a big part of the reason I think the witch-hunt mentality ought to be dialed back.  Maybe it's all a scam, maybe Amir is playing us all, but there's just no way to know right now, and the possibility that somebody is that seriously ill over all this is enough of a reason to be careful.  This whole situation is horrible, but it's not worth somebody's life.

Ok, that's a bit scary. Someone needs to get in touch with genjix, make sure he's physically ok.

It's a bad situation, but certainly not one worth ending yourself over. This too shall pass.

safe to assume payouts have stopped? if anyone got paid over the weekend or after the date of this post please let us know.

They need to stop suing each other and get to the business of refunding the customer. I don't care how much these guys hate each other.

Jeff, we did not start it. Amir wrote that he's already being sued before BadBitcoin announced anything, and that he does not know what will happen next. This post has been deleted in the meantime, but it is being quoted here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1027601

Tihan wrote that they are considering legal action against Amir, Patrick and Norman here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1028157

So what's the most rational choice for the depositors, just sit and wait until more money mysteriously vanishes and maybe people end up in jail? What good does that for us getting our money back, ever? Hahaha, I still have no money, but now someone is in jail and I need to pay, through taxes, for his lodgings and food? Does that make any sense to you? At least when litigation is threatened or in place, we can get the funds frozen (e.g. by Mt. Gox) until someone refunds us.

It was not us who delayed it, in fact I defended the delays before here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.903915. I'm not going to point fingers at who caused it, as I don't have sufficient information and don't want to falsely accuse anyone and I don't actually care. But it wasn't us. And I don't need to know who caused it, I just want my money back.

So apparently 10 days ago around 25% have already been repaid. It would have been great if those lawsuit hungry people could have waited until all those remaining 70% (after the hack) have been repaid. And if lawsuits are really your thing, sue after that.