What an absolute cluster eff. On the bright side, it's a testament to how far along bitcoin has come since last year that the price hasn't fallen off a cliff.
You aren't looking upside down enough...
Huh?
Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation - page 69. (Read 156711 times)
June 06, 2012, 06:07:20 PM
You aren't looking upside down enough...
Huh?
June 06, 2012, 04:56:35 PM
What an absolute cluster eff. On the bright side, it's a testament to how far along bitcoin has come since last year that the price hasn't fallen off a cliff.
You aren't looking upside down enough...
June 06, 2012, 04:33:34 PM
Since nobody seems to be reading the verify@bitcoinica emails I agree with Kokjo and kindly remind you to send me my 101 BTC to: 1ET2ps7BRrZnDeq7bVNc8bS9ZmgN8DxUXy - consider the BTC pocket change you owe me and my 3 cents USD a going away gift.
I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
You speculated with tuition money (money you cannot afford to lose), and did so on a bucket shop built in 4 days by a 17yo that was hacked 2 times before this? D00d. Even though I am quite sure people will get back their funds, I don’t feel sorry for the prospect of anyone possibly losing money on this because noone should have left any non-expendable money there.I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
People need to do a bit more due diligence on the businesses they leave their BTC with.
I do not think that is quite fair. I'm on vacation right now and while I don't need my money instantly, I would very much like it as the amount I had goes a long way where I am. I had budgeted with the expectation that I would have access to that money and now my budget has changed.
Yes, I was speculating and yes I was prepared to lose some of it through speculation (through stops/limits), but the idea that I would have no access to my money with this kind of silence from everyone but Zhou (who is the only one talking to us, even though he has no control) is surprising, given that this is a registered corporation. This isn't bitscalper or that anonymous wallet service from a year or so ago. This is a corporation, with real people behind it that are operating in a regulated fashion. This is not how they should behave and to be surprised by this and to say the amount you had in there was not trivial is legitimate.
On the plus side, I still feel a degree of comfort that we'll get at least some of our money back, due to this being a legal and regulated entity. The question is when, and I don't know enough about corporate law in NZ to know that.
Your post pretty much proves you have no clue about, or were neglecting willfully, counter party risk.
Expecting your counter party to not go bust is speculation too, especially in this case after a history of previous theft. Also in this case a registered limited partnership is probably a better shield to the limited partner than you, but I have no clue about NZ law.
I hope you and we all get some of our money back in time.
My point wasn't that there was NO risk, but that Bitcoinica was, on paper, one of the safest and most legitimate bitcoin companies to store BTC or USD with. To be surprised by the lack of professional response now doesn't make you stupid or naive. Of course they could go bust or be subject to an attack; that part isn't surprising. The neglect they're displaying towards their customers, given that they had a brand that survived past attacks and have the funds to compensate us ready is what is surprising.
Having USD in a company like that isn't as safe as having it in a bank, but in terms of counter party risk, it was about as good as it got when it came to BTC. They do have a legal obligation to us; they are not anonymous. It is entirely legitimate to be more upset and surprised about this current behavior than with anonymous e-wallets or fly-by-night exchanges. That is all I'm getting at. People who are upset have a right to be and it is sad seeing keyboard warriors tell them they should have done more due diligence about where they put their BTC. Hindsight is 20/20, right?
When Zhou says he hates seeing his brand ruined, I have to agree. We will probably all get our money back, but this present behavior is unacceptable.
It's claimed the whole thing was cobbled together by a 17y old in 4 days. On launch someone advised him to back down, because he will lose a lot of foreigners money. It was hacked. It was hacked *again*.
Yet you claim it was not only safe and sound, but the safest and most legitimate BTC bussiness at all.
Now my advise to you: stay away and move away from investing any money in BTC at all. If you can't even see it in hindsight you should not trust yourself to make financial decisions with even a modicum of risk, and certainly not in anything you yourself deemed not as good as bitcoinica.
Greed is a bitch, it makes us gloss over the negative sides. I myself had more in bitcoinica than I am comfortable to lose, but I always thought a total loss possible. Let's hope it won't come to that, but try to learn from it.
June 06, 2012, 04:09:29 PM
I don't even know myself. I only know that I'm still an employee.
hmmm... guys... why would you trust a company that resorts to child labor?
(inquiring again, on purpose)
https://mtgox.com/terms_of_service
Quote
they are at least 18 years of age and have the full capacity to accept these Terms and enter into a transaction resulting on the Platform
Is it safe to assume that Zhou Tong did not have an account at Mt Gox?
~Bruno~
Ehhhh, as far as I know Zhoutong ages as well. And as far as I know he's already 18 years old.
June 06, 2012, 04:05:34 PM
I don't even know myself. I only know that I'm still an employee.
hmmm... guys... why would you trust a company that resorts to child labor?
(inquiring again, on purpose)
https://mtgox.com/terms_of_service
Quote
they are at least 18 years of age and have the full capacity to accept these Terms and enter into a transaction resulting on the Platform
Is it safe to assume that Zhou Tong did not have an account at Mt Gox?
~Bruno~
June 06, 2012, 03:16:43 PM
Bitcoinica Consultancy - Can you please explain why you filed for a 'Change of Company Name' on 30 May 2012 12:56?
http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/3715077/documents?backurl=%2Fcompanies%2Fapp%2Fui%2Fpages%2Fcompanies%2Fsearch%3Fmode%3Dstandard%26type%3Dentities%26q%3DCore%2520Credit%2520Limited
Quote
CORE CREDIT LIMITED was incorporated under the
Companies Act 1993 on the 30th day of January 2012
and changed its name to BITCOINICA CONSULTANCY LIMITED on the 30th day of
May 2012.
Companies Act 1993 on the 30th day of January 2012
and changed its name to BITCOINICA CONSULTANCY LIMITED on the 30th day of
May 2012.
http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/3715077/documents?backurl=%2Fcompanies%2Fapp%2Fui%2Fpages%2Fcompanies%2Fsearch%3Fmode%3Dstandard%26type%3Dentities%26q%3DCore%2520Credit%2520Limited
June 06, 2012, 02:57:12 PM
When Zhou says he hates seeing his brand ruined, I have to agree. We will probably all get our money back, but this present behavior is unacceptable.
He shouldn't have hosted his mission-critical web site with live money accounts in a cheapo VPS server AGAIN. Huh.
His reputation is toast for good reason. Not that many people will care in a few years time though.
June 06, 2012, 02:39:57 PM
Since nobody seems to be reading the verify@bitcoinica emails I agree with Kokjo and kindly remind you to send me my 101 BTC to: 1ET2ps7BRrZnDeq7bVNc8bS9ZmgN8DxUXy - consider the BTC pocket change you owe me and my 3 cents USD a going away gift.
I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
You speculated with tuition money (money you cannot afford to lose), and did so on a bucket shop built in 4 days by a 17yo that was hacked 2 times before this? D00d. Even though I am quite sure people will get back their funds, I don’t feel sorry for the prospect of anyone possibly losing money on this because noone should have left any non-expendable money there.I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
People need to do a bit more due diligence on the businesses they leave their BTC with.
I do not think that is quite fair. I'm on vacation right now and while I don't need my money instantly, I would very much like it as the amount I had goes a long way where I am. I had budgeted with the expectation that I would have access to that money and now my budget has changed.
Yes, I was speculating and yes I was prepared to lose some of it through speculation (through stops/limits), but the idea that I would have no access to my money with this kind of silence from everyone but Zhou (who is the only one talking to us, even though he has no control) is surprising, given that this is a registered corporation. This isn't bitscalper or that anonymous wallet service from a year or so ago. This is a corporation, with real people behind it that are operating in a regulated fashion. This is not how they should behave and to be surprised by this and to say the amount you had in there was not trivial is legitimate.
On the plus side, I still feel a degree of comfort that we'll get at least some of our money back, due to this being a legal and regulated entity. The question is when, and I don't know enough about corporate law in NZ to know that.
Your post pretty much proves you have no clue about, or were neglecting willfully, counter party risk.
Expecting your counter party to not go bust is speculation too, especially in this case after a history of previous theft. Also in this case a registered limited partnership is probably a better shield to the limited partner than you, but I have no clue about NZ law.
I hope you and we all get some of our money back in time.
My point wasn't that there was NO risk, but that Bitcoinica was, on paper, one of the safest and most legitimate bitcoin companies to store BTC or USD with. To be surprised by the lack of professional response now doesn't make you stupid or naive. Of course they could go bust or be subject to an attack; that part isn't surprising. The neglect they're displaying towards their customers, given that they had a brand that survived past attacks and have the funds to compensate us ready is what is surprising.
Having USD in a company like that isn't as safe as having it in a bank, but in terms of counter party risk, it was about as good as it got when it came to BTC. They do have a legal obligation to us; they are not anonymous. It is entirely legitimate to be more upset and surprised about this current behavior than with anonymous e-wallets or fly-by-night exchanges. That is all I'm getting at. People who are upset have a right to be and it is sad seeing keyboard warriors tell them they should have done more due diligence about where they put their BTC. Hindsight is 20/20, right?
When Zhou says he hates seeing his brand ruined, I have to agree. We will probably all get our money back, but this present behavior is unacceptable.
+1
June 06, 2012, 02:04:28 PM
Since nobody seems to be reading the verify@bitcoinica emails I agree with Kokjo and kindly remind you to send me my 101 BTC to: 1ET2ps7BRrZnDeq7bVNc8bS9ZmgN8DxUXy - consider the BTC pocket change you owe me and my 3 cents USD a going away gift.
I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
You speculated with tuition money (money you cannot afford to lose), and did so on a bucket shop built in 4 days by a 17yo that was hacked 2 times before this? D00d. Even though I am quite sure people will get back their funds, I don’t feel sorry for the prospect of anyone possibly losing money on this because noone should have left any non-expendable money there.I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
People need to do a bit more due diligence on the businesses they leave their BTC with.
I do not think that is quite fair. I'm on vacation right now and while I don't need my money instantly, I would very much like it as the amount I had goes a long way where I am. I had budgeted with the expectation that I would have access to that money and now my budget has changed.
Yes, I was speculating and yes I was prepared to lose some of it through speculation (through stops/limits), but the idea that I would have no access to my money with this kind of silence from everyone but Zhou (who is the only one talking to us, even though he has no control) is surprising, given that this is a registered corporation. This isn't bitscalper or that anonymous wallet service from a year or so ago. This is a corporation, with real people behind it that are operating in a regulated fashion. This is not how they should behave and to be surprised by this and to say the amount you had in there was not trivial is legitimate.
On the plus side, I still feel a degree of comfort that we'll get at least some of our money back, due to this being a legal and regulated entity. The question is when, and I don't know enough about corporate law in NZ to know that.
Your post pretty much proves you have no clue about, or were neglecting willfully, counter party risk.
Expecting your counter party to not go bust is speculation too, especially in this case after a history of previous theft. Also in this case a registered limited partnership is probably a better shield to the limited partner than you, but I have no clue about NZ law.
I hope you and we all get some of our money back in time.
June 06, 2012, 01:22:38 PM
Give 'em a break - they not scammers.
They are in the middle of the most irritating and pressured couple of weeks of their lives.
Just let them sort it out properly.
I doubt anyone with money on Bitcoinica put their life savings on there - anyone with money on Bitcoinica knew it was risky, but 'scam' never entered my mind.
If you are so desperate for the money you have on Bitcoinica, then you shouldn't have been using Bitcoinica.
You could have just kept it as cash hidden in a mattress (or a bitcoin wallet).
They are in the middle of the most irritating and pressured couple of weeks of their lives.
Just let them sort it out properly.
I doubt anyone with money on Bitcoinica put their life savings on there - anyone with money on Bitcoinica knew it was risky, but 'scam' never entered my mind.
If you are so desperate for the money you have on Bitcoinica, then you shouldn't have been using Bitcoinica.
You could have just kept it as cash hidden in a mattress (or a bitcoin wallet).
June 06, 2012, 01:19:57 PM
I signed up in early April before the official announcement was made. Thought it was a good idea to earn some interest on BTC, so I had no open positions whatsoever. If the company was long sold by then I critizise strongly that such mundane information as a fricking CHANGE OF OWNER was withheld from the customers for weeks if not months!!!
6 months, the company was secretly sold in November according to zhoutong.I would say the take over happened in April. Before that, even though I didn't have any financial interest, I was still recognized as CEO and most of my actions were approved by Tihan. Because I had a lot of control, it is fair for me to take respective responsibilities.
However, after the take over, my control was "secretly" transferred to a bureaucratic team, without formal notice. Till today, no one knows my position at Bitcoinica and when it changed.
I don't even know myself. I only know that I'm still an employee.
I was not updated about the refunding for over 4 days, but I can magically access the fund account with all the customer deposits (at least 75% of total valid claims are in that account). I can't touch the money even though technically it's allowed.
On the other hand, I'll have to wait for updates and instructions like everyone else.
Just send my 60-70btc to 19PKMheiAr2Lxm2YN67pTUpTmwTW96PGvF .
so: about 60-70 btc.
June 06, 2012, 01:18:14 PM
I signed up in early April before the official announcement was made. Thought it was a good idea to earn some interest on BTC, so I had no open positions whatsoever. If the company was long sold by then I critizise strongly that such mundane information as a fricking CHANGE OF OWNER was withheld from the customers for weeks if not months!!!
6 months, the company was secretly sold in November according to zhoutong.I would say the take over happened in April. Before that, even though I didn't have any financial interest, I was still recognized as CEO and most of my actions were approved by Tihan. Because I had a lot of control, it is fair for me to take respective responsibilities.
However, after the take over, my control was "secretly" transferred to a bureaucratic team, without formal notice. Till today, no one knows my position at Bitcoinica and when it changed.
I don't even know myself. I only know that I'm still an employee.
I was not updated about the refunding for over 4 days, but I can magically access the fund account with all the customer deposits (at least 75% of total valid claims are in that account). I can't touch the money even though technically it's allowed.
On the other hand, I'll have to wait for updates and instructions like everyone else.
So there are employees of dubious status, having access to a large wallet without proper permission. This is not encouraging. Security is more than safe code, something they should have learned by now. I wonder who else has access, and if they will be hacked again before they finish claims.
June 06, 2012, 01:15:20 PM
I signed up in early April before the official announcement was made. Thought it was a good idea to earn some interest on BTC, so I had no open positions whatsoever. If the company was long sold by then I critizise strongly that such mundane information as a fricking CHANGE OF OWNER was withheld from the customers for weeks if not months!!!
6 months, the company was secretly sold in November according to zhoutong.I would say the take over happened in April. Before that, even though I didn't have any financial interest, I was still recognized as CEO and most of my actions were approved by Tihan. Because I had a lot of control, it is fair for me to take respective responsibilities.
However, after the take over, my control was "secretly" transferred to a bureaucratic team, without formal notice. Till today, no one knows my position at Bitcoinica and when it changed.
I don't even know myself. I only know that I'm still an employee.
I was not updated about the refunding for over 4 days, but I can magically access the fund account with all the customer deposits (at least 75% of total valid claims are in that account). I can't touch the money even though technically it's allowed.
On the other hand, I'll have to wait for updates and instructions like everyone else.
Just send my 60-70btc to 19PKMheiAr2Lxm2YN67pTUpTmwTW96PGvF .
June 06, 2012, 12:26:34 PM
https://mtgox.com/terms_of_service
Is it safe to assume that Zhou Tong did not have an account at Mt Gox?
~Bruno~
Quote
they are at least 18 years of age and have the full capacity to accept these Terms and enter into a transaction resulting on the Platform
Is it safe to assume that Zhou Tong did not have an account at Mt Gox?
~Bruno~
June 06, 2012, 11:16:56 AM
@proudhon
I think the market just prices in a myriad of scams and hacks now per default. So perhaps when we have a few months of no major scam/hack, the price could rise.
I think the market just prices in a myriad of scams and hacks now per default. So perhaps when we have a few months of no major scam/hack, the price could rise.
Haha, I hope that's the case.
June 06, 2012, 11:13:43 AM
I don't even know myself. I only know that I'm still an employee.
hmmm... guys... why would you trust a company that resorts to child labor?
June 06, 2012, 11:09:39 AM
Since nobody seems to be reading the verify@bitcoinica emails I agree with Kokjo and kindly remind you to send me my 101 BTC to: 1ET2ps7BRrZnDeq7bVNc8bS9ZmgN8DxUXy - consider the BTC pocket change you owe me and my 3 cents USD a going away gift.
I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
You speculated with tuition money (money you cannot afford to lose), and did so on a bucket shop built in 4 days by a 17yo that was hacked 2 times before this? D00d. Even though I am quite sure people will get back their funds, I don’t feel sorry for the prospect of anyone possibly losing money on this because noone should have left any non-expendable money there.I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
People need to do a bit more due diligence on the businesses they leave their BTC with.
@proudhon
I think the market just prices in a myriad of scams and hacks now per default. So perhaps when we have a few months of no major scam/hack, the price could rise.
June 06, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
Since nobody seems to be reading the verify@bitcoinica emails I agree with Kokjo and kindly remind you to send me my 101 BTC to: 1ET2ps7BRrZnDeq7bVNc8bS9ZmgN8DxUXy - consider the BTC pocket change you owe me and my 3 cents USD a going away gift.
I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
I respectfully do not care who pays for it, and this is not a trivial amount to me. You're not the only one with tuition fees to pay.
Afterwards, I promise to stop asking you on this forum for what is rightfully mine. Thank you.
June 06, 2012, 11:00:40 AM
What an absolute cluster eff. On the bright side, it's a testament to how far along bitcoin has come since last year that the price hasn't fallen off a cliff.
June 06, 2012, 10:44:45 AM
you have access!!!
Just send my 60-70btc to 19PKMheiAr2Lxm2YN67pTUpTmwTW96PGvF .
lol trying to jump the line. Try not to be an idiot.Just send my 60-70btc to 19PKMheiAr2Lxm2YN67pTUpTmwTW96PGvF .
We have waited long enough, and im getting impatient.
It's not how things work. The owner of the account is not Bitcoinica LP, and I never have authority to touch the money in that account.
I can just confirm that the fund injection (from cold storage) has been done, and technically Patrick (and maybe others) can already access the funds.
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