Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation - page 64. (Read 156711 times)

With the price of bitcoins moving up again and still no word on when payouts will begin, or what the policy on liquidating open positions is; I'm wonder what Bitcoinica expects us all to do while they're pissing around with their internal legal wrangling?

Fine, you want to cover your arses, but how many meetings do you need and how many days of research?  How much financial loss are we, your customers, meant to take on the chin while you fart around?

The price of bitcoins is going up and up (possibly because there is no shorting facility available now), and as far as I can see:

• The arbitrarily chosen liquidation price they eventually settle at is going to leave me out of pocket as they'll close lower than my position, despite current price being higher.  I could have taken that loss on the chin on day 0; but it's now getting painful to watch.
• Given no early indications (i.e. before the price started moving) of what the position closure procedure was going to be, I couldn't use other funds to hedge losses.
• My coins not being released means I can't even sell my coins when I think the current price is too high.  That's an opportunity cost on top of any adverse closure policy.

It's quite possible that the delay while bitcoinica quibbles internally is resulting in a situation where we lose more in market moves than was stolen in the first place.  e.g. 5.66/5 = 13% -- it doesn't have to move much more and we'll have a greater than 20% move.  If Bitcoinica had (and I'm certainly not saying they should have) gone long with their USD holdings, they would have made back the stolen coins; surely that demonstrates the lunacy of sitting on deposits for this long?

Thanks for info...

I can only provide some highly redacted screenshots. The gist is, there's no point to cheat for claims. Bitcoinica has almost everything.

Also, Bitcoinica's Terms of Service should also be prohibiting minors from using the site. They are welcome to freeze my account and withhold my claim, too.

+1

Excuse me, but why are we letting CoinExchanger and his sockpuppet account Maria continue to spam this thread with utter bullshit?

They don't have any claims at Bitcoinica. In fact, CoinExchanger has gone out of his way to make fun of Bitcoinica, calling it a scam and saying he's glad that Bitcoinica was hacked, even accepting coins from the Linode hack with a smile on his face.

CoinExchange and sockpuppet Maria: Please go to hell. Thanks.

I'm not sure about the laws. My banker told me the age requirement is related to credit, so I can't own a merchant account (because they can't recover the funds from me when I have chargebacks) but I can own a foreign currency account (which is generally even more tightly regulated).

Almost all brokers don't accept minors because of credit involved in margin trading. But I have two OANDA accounts (one in US and one in EU) with all the AML verification without any problems.

In both Singapore and Australia, a minor can't be a director of a company. It's highly likely that share ownership isn't permitted either (unless in special circumstances such as inheritance). But in Delaware, the identity of the directors is withheld at the registered agent and not the state.

My email [email protected] is in the list leaked in the Mt. Gox hack. I think that's the proof.

I may need to apology to psy, kinda, for I stated that xwaylab.com was not the name, for I didn't double check his provided email address prior to claiming otherwise. I still stand my position, though, that the account was/is under the name of Zhou Tong with him giving xwaylab.com as the email address ONLY. As you can clearly see below, the account in question was established prior to the leak, possible late May of last year at the very latest, making him only 16 years old at the time, regardless. Now, if owning a website excuses the age requirement expressed on Mt Gox's TOS, then I'm going to have my 10 year old nephew sign up to Mt Gox with his website iliketurtlebutter.com (currently in development). He's going to be selling Turtle Butter and only accept Bitcoin as payment. Since he's to young to open his own bank account without an adult co-signer, he wishes to put his funds in a safe place, coupled with the ability to trade them. The kid is a fuckin' genus, BTW, for he came up with the Turtle Butter idea on his own while on a 4 day holiday at Wally World. I may have to check to see if it's legal for him to register a domain name in his name, though, since he is under age. First, I'm going to have to help him get a credit card so that he can do that, too.


Now, I'm going to ask again: If this is the case, were any laws broken, or is there no age requirement to trade on a commodity exchange?

~Bruno~

When I registered at Mt. Gox, they didn't have that TOS. When the TOS came out, all Bitcoinica's assets had already been transferred to a new account owned by a corporation which has no relation with me. I still operate a personal Mt. Gox account with minimal funds. Mt. Gox is welcome to freeze it until August 24, 2012.

Who knows - you're talking about someone resident in Singapore trading with a company based in Japan.  Often contracts made with minors aren't enforceable by the other party, although minors can be bound by certain types of contracts in some places and other types are absolutely illegal in some jurisdictions.

Just show us the money shot.

The LAW doesn't apply to DEA snitches.

Damn you guys! Can't the suspense go on a tad longer? And it's not xWaylad, but in the name of Zhou Tong. Chances are, though, I've be offering up the info within the hour. In the meantime, if this is true, wouldn't there be some type/kind of legal ramifications involved in regards to Mt Gox, i.e., having minors trading on their platform?

~Bruno~

Spill the beans, Bruno. You know we're dying for it lol


Just like the Singapore bank account belonged to xWaylab Inc. ?

If the account belonged to xWaylab Inc, then that was the legal entity with which Mt Gox was dealing rather than zhoutong personally.

Here's my problem. Why would I or anybody else, for that matter, deal with an entity that doesn't even abide by its own TOS? I also have proof that Zhou Tong was registered at Mt Gox prior to the formation of Bitcoinia--when he was only 16 years old. Anybody care to see that proof?

~Bruno~

Mr. Mark Karpeles, Mtgox, MagicalTux

If young Zhou still has open an account with you, I suggest you close and freeze immediately all funds in his account.
 

Oh... Mega LOL. MtGox broke its own terms. What will the DEA think?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.522863

Quote from: stsbrad on September 13, 2011, 03:05:41 AM
I hate to say it but once again are people trusting their money with a service that came out of the blue three days ago? when will people ever learn. I'm not saying you are up to no good running this but there has been way too much fraud already. if people are trading money through someone who is 17 I see serious concerns. do you even have an llc or corporation setup? does anyone know your name and can verify your identity? I just can't grasp it.

If you want to identify all these, you can easily find out.

But unfortunately you didn't want to do so.

Bitcoinica was under xWaylab Inc. My name is Zhou Tong. I have submitted my passport and bank statement to Mt. Gox and waiting for their approval.

You can search topics about Bitcoinica on this forum. I have posted a lot of background information here and there.

If you really want to know, you can easily find out. We don't want to show testimonials. But established forum members have also shared their recommendation.

Lastly, every project has its start. If no people are trusting ANY new service because of fraud, there won't be any new service around.

I greatly appreciate everyone's trust, and I show my appreciation by developing the best product and providing the best service.

I'm going to try this for a third time, for I feel it's an important issue.

@Zhou Tong: Have you personally, or while in capacity of Bitcoinia, traded bitcoins at/on Mt Gox, being that the TOS of said exchange forbids anybody under the age of 18 to trade/register on their platform.

Thank you, bud. I now look forward to your reply.

~Bruno~