Topic: PBmining - legit? - page 15. (Read 67922 times)

Because the amount of hashrate 956Ths on their website is not the total amount of their entire userbase which is public, they have about a 2:1 ratio of miners working for them only and the rest for their users, I suspect they aren't doing this pro bono so they must keep a % of the mining revenues not including the power costs.

How does that mean they are keeping a large %?

Pbmining are keeping a large % of the bitcoin, i'm having troubles getting back the bitcoin I've invested due to the ongoing raise in difficulty, in the next 3 months I'm going to need the block difficulty drop to 5-10% so that I can at least make back my initial btc invested with them so yes they do keep a large % of the mined bitcoin but at least i have a chance of making them back unlike cloudhashing which are scamming people which aren't well informed like I was 4 months ago when I bought 100 ghs from them.

Couldn't agree more. $2 per GH/s doesn't leave room for the electric costs let alone hardware upgrades down the line which would be an impossible business model anyway.

It's clearly established $2 for 5 years mining with no further costs is not possible.

10 months ago we were no where near state of the art ASICs, that is no longer the case.   There will be gains, but they aren't going to be an order of magnitude gain in 10 months, especially when it comes to power.  I am an electrical engineer so I have some idea what I'm talking about.   Besides at the prices being charged, there isn't any room to replace the miners at PBMining.   They are out of money from the sale in just a couple months if they are actually mining and have access to hardware no one else does.  Reality is much worse.   

Now if they were keeping back 50% of the BTC, maybe, but they aren't.

10 months ago the most powerful ASIC miners were producing 15-50 Ghs and consuming same power as todays 1-5 Ths ASIC miners. Its not hard to imagine that in 10 months we'll be talking about 100-200 Ths miners that will consume the same power of today. The prices were also similar couple of thousand dollars so they could be really mining but they won't come with more details of their operation so that they don't attract more customers, or it could be a scam. Its risky business, I wouldn't encourage anyone to go into it without knowing the risks. However I can guarantee you that you'll make at least 50% ROI loss by going with cloudhashing, they are pure thieves with their contract prices.

Pbmining is clearly not mining the amount of GH/s they have sold.   The prices are simply impossible for real mining on a 5 year contract.   The prices are in the range of pure virtual mining which could go on for years.   See https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=B.MINE.   

They claim they are actually mining, but I would guess it is a small percent of the GH/s they have sold at this point.   It is likely they are buying the GH/s from someone that is running a virtual mining operation.   Virtual mining isn't a scam if you know that is what you are buying.   However since PBMining claims it is all real mining, that makes this a scam. 

As for new hardware that isn't available yet, like the AntMiner S3, they are about 1.88x that price of that hardware.  At 470 GH/s it pulls .7 W / GH/s.   So it will be possible to buy some hardware in the price range, but that is still about 8kW/h per day to run.   Over 5 years that would be 1,806,750 KWh.  Even if they only pay $.01 / KWh ... That is $18,000 US!    However they have been paying a little higher than the B.Mine pays.   They don't have any money to pay power bills, so it follows they aren't buying power.    Most current mining gear is more expensive and much more power hungry.

Probably the only way the PBMining isn't a scam is if some billionaire if privately funding it to give BTC out to the masses.   Do you really believe that?


 

Pbmining is either a scam or don't want new customers to flood in because they offer the best deal around by a long margin. Cloudhashing on the other hand is stealing money from non-informed people because after 1 year they'll only make half of the bitcoins invested in the Gh contracts.

Cloudhashing is doing robbery in plain sight while Pbmining is either scam or a fair cloud mining company. If you want to get robbed Cloudhashing is the go-to company, if you like risks Pbmining is the choice. Having invested in both I can say now that I should've simply kept the bitcoins.

I think he was pointing out that if they had a farm, power would be a considerable factor in their operational expenses.  I think in the end, nothing really adds up with pbmining from a transparency point of view.  I recently had to move my own miners because power got too expensive at the datacenter I was at.  So, power is a factor in mining and profitability.

I don't see a way anyone can make a profit cloud mining, but at least places like cloudhashing.com disclose how and what they mine. Pbmining claims they don't want to dislcose anything out of "privacy" concerns.  

they do seem really sketchy. but what better options out there?

The thread asks the question 'PBmining - legit ?'

In terms of mining no. It's clearly impossible to provide what they sell. The fact you seem to think this doesn't matter is ABSURD

A few bitcoin will pay off ALL pbm contracts years 2 thru 5.
Why in hell would they waste money running equipment to mine a few satoshi?
The power argument is ABSURD.

I've been told that the fastest way to get a scam shutdown is not so much going to the authorities, but to tell the tax man   It's likely if they are scamming / acting like a ponzi and they're converting BTC into fiat, they probably aren't paying taxes. We all know, the tax man is going to get his due, no matter what. 

All I know is that they're in canada. But if someone has doxxed them, here's the link to report them to ye olde tax man in ye olde canada.

https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/bscs/l3adz/internet/initial.do?target=login&lang=en&program=qa

I think that holds the record for the most silly posts I've ever seen on the internet.

THEY SELL 5 YEAR CONTRACTS

How is the power argument irrelevant. If I sell you a mining contract TODAY 03/07/14 FOR $2 for 1GH/s to run for 5 years... you expect me to 'mine' for you..... FOR 5 YEARS !!!  

The fact power costs more than the cost of the GH/s in the one of the cheapest areas in the world with hardware efficiency that isn't out yet (SP30)?! It's not a riddle, it's not complicated. THE POWER WOULD COST MORE THAN $2 FOR 5 YEARS, WAY MORE.

That's assuming they get free hardware, a free giant mega mine data center, fee cooling, free staff... come on use your brain...

YOU CANNOT UPGRADE! You cannot buy new hardware with old hardware especially if it's less efficient IT'S WORTH LESS RELATIVE TO THE NEW HARDWARE PER GH/s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They have 800TH/s lol the second hand market would be a bit flooded right now.

The idea that they will go along upgrading to more efficient hardware with a dollar spent today is an absurdly impossible idea.

The value of inefficient hardware goes down in relation to new hardware, it's simple.

It's just mysterious ponzish payouts with no terms of service, pictures and mixed coins not 'mining'

FEED YOUR GREED !

 

Only if they buy additional hardware. But they already spent the income on the current hardware and power. New income from new customers is required to keep the ponzi alive.

But all evidence points to them not having any hardware, so their hardware and energy costs are all $0.

My argument was based on power yes, but that's not all. For $2 a GH/s, I highly doubt anyone can rent a facility to run their miners, pay utilities - internet costs and power for both the miners and air conditioning, and hire people to manage the rigs and maintain them.

They are not going to use the same inefficient hardware to mine for the next 5 years.

If they bought Antminers, they watts per gh are what?  1.5watt to the gh?

If they ordered SP30's from Spondoolie, the watts per gh becomes 0.5watt per gh or less.

If BFL ever ships, their wattage is even less.  If they downclock, the wattage is even less than that.


Plus, you have to look at top end vs bottom.  If a thousand miners bought in at 1gh.  They can buy a single Dragon Miner to mine that at 1.1watt to the gh now.  Then, later, they can put all 1000 people on an Imperial Monarch and pay 0.45 watts per gh.


The power argument over 5 years is stupid.  Due to the difficulty rise, the folks mining after the first year are only going to earn a few Satoshi.  They can buy a modern miner at that time, and pay those people for the entire rest of the four years on that one miner's profits in the first couple months.

They aren't going to just have a miner running and pay more for power than it profits.  That's insane.


I'm critical of these guys as much as anyone, but this power argument is stupid.

And where they're hosting their miners (Alberta) the average electricity cost, as of last year, in Calgary (I believe they said they have a facility there) is about $0.14 per kW/hr.

So let's figure this out, if a single GH/s costs $2, and let's say the efficiency of the hardware is 0.5 watts per GH/s, then your $2 would only be paying the power cost for the hardware for ~3 and a quarter years. Power costs are going up too you have to remember, so I'm not sure how they plan to pay for it after that time length. You also have to factor in AC costs, internet costs, facility costs - all this other stuff that would cost much more than power.

And yeah, the "Feed your greed" slogan kind of turns me off as well.

Yes. You cannot sell a GH/s today 03/07/14 for $2 to mine for 5 years with zero running costs.

So PB mysterious ponzish payouts, not mining.

'Feed your greed' sounds like the wolf of wall street.

It's over $2 per GH/s in electricity alone for 5 years in Washington State one of the cheapest areas in the world on hardware efficiency that isn't out yet. ELECTRICITY ALONE 5 years over 2 DOLLLAAA understand....

The fact no one else seems to have mentioned this is beyond me. There's arguments on their thread about mining profitability. It's a joke. (a non funny one)

They're like a giant newbie hoover for the mathematically inept.

And I'm still waiting to get shit on Mr PB?!

Visitor 73542558
4:06 PM
get ready to be shit on
4:06 PM
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Lots of discussion here. Any cliffs? Has anyone got to a conclusion?