Play poker to train trading - page 10.

maydna

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 20, 2019, 09:00:09 AM

Quote from: maydna on March 20, 2019, 07:19:05 AM

If we talk about money management and discipline, then I think it has related to all of the gambling games. But how about sports betting? But I don't know but I think in sports betting, we play with probability too.

Ability of quitting. That's my point. Ability to not panic hold. No matter if its coin or its hand with dual pairs and bidding is going too far.

I really agree with the abilities you said because that is the only thing we need to prevent defeat from gambling or trading. Maybe, we don't have the power to do that, but as long as we keep doing it, sooner or later, we can have the ability to control ourselves.

But I will not leave my money just on the table in gambling because I know that I don't have the luck to win the match. But in trading, I still have the opportunity to minimize losses, and even I can try to make a profit even though it is a small profit because in trading as long as we don't give up, we still have the opportunity to turn things around.

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Well, poker can somehow be manipulated very easily without having a lot of money, but in trading you can only manipulate if you have a lot of money.

In poker you can apply strategy but it will always depend on an uncontrolled factor that is luck, when there is no luck you can not do anything, even if you have the best strategy is.

In commerce, there is a possibility that according to your strategy and your market studies, if it is possible to win, if you take advice from books like Wyckoff, Livermore, Tom Williams, Down, because valuable knowledge is applied intelligently in the market , so that the luck factor, would not play such an important role, in this case, it would be volatility, but if it does, understanding the market, the odds of winning are much higher than those of playing poker.

Since the operations combined intelligently with the Strategy, they trigger well-argued criteria about predicting or reacting to the market. The only way to compare the trade with poker is that both try to guess or act randomly, that in both cases the chances of success are very low.

Reid

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I thought I am really going to disagree just like you said at first but you did catch my attention to read it all too.

So at the end I said it might be worth the read. Surprisingly it is worth it.

Poker is not really a luck base game of gambling for me.
It is a tactical game and also one who can make hard headed people win a game for quite a lot of time.

I guess it can really match to trading. Also, poker is one good exercise for the brain.

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Quote from: Betwrong on March 20, 2019, 11:43:21 AM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 19, 2019, 06:35:39 AM

~
Professional trader and poker player will say the same thing: -You loose the most when you are sure that you will win

I'm glad you said it because this is like my motto. I rarely trade but I play poker a lot, and I've noticed that this is what happens most of the time. When you have a great hand and you are sure you'll win, you lose to a better hand. It is especially vexing when you finish on 11th place after going all-in in a tournament with 10 places paid. I folded AA preflop once because the situation was as I described in the previous sentence, and I know I did the right thing. I agree with you, crypto trading and poker are very similar in regard to money management. Even if the probability of winning is very high you have to take into account all the other factors before making a final decision.

On making final decisions this isnt only applicable on just trading or poker.This would suit out on all sorts of things that do require good judgment on the final phase.
There are really some circumstances that even how sure you are with your decisions where there are more much better or good than you which in result to loss together with
some frustration.

cryptovigi

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Partially I agree with OP, but one must remember about the difference that makes the example of the poker game and trade can not be directly compared (in my opinion).

In the poker game, theoretically opponents have similar chances to win, of course, they differ in skills, experience and wealth of the wallet, but sitting at the table all of them have the same rules and each of them can win the pot.

In trade, your opponent is the most often a whale who constantly creates and changes rules throughout the game, and also has unlimited (compared to your) funds, thanks to which he can at the time raise or lower the price and you have no influence on that. In fact, you can only defend yourself using stop loss or technical analysis tools . But one thing is certain - you are not equal and there are no fixed rules.

One thing that can be learned in trade and poker is self-control. Neither poker nor trade should be based on the emotions of just calmness and self-control and cold calculation, and here I completely agree that it combines these two areas.

Betwrong

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 19, 2019, 06:35:39 AM

~
Professional trader and poker player will say the same thing: -You loose the most when you are sure that you will win

I'm glad you said it because this is like my motto. I rarely trade but I play poker a lot, and I've noticed that this is what happens most of the time. When you have a great hand and you are sure you'll win, you lose to a better hand. It is especially vexing when you finish on 11th place after going all-in in a tournament with 10 places paid. I folded AA preflop once because the situation was as I described in the previous sentence, and I know I did the right thing. I agree with you, crypto trading and poker are very similar in regard to money management. Even if the probability of winning is very high you have to take into account all the other factors before making a final decision.

spadormie

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In my opinion, the main thing poker can be compared with trading is that the decision making and luck.

Decision making in trading includes these things:

Should I buy this coin that dumped so hard at the moment and wait for it to go up?
Should I sell this coin since it reached my target?
Should I follow the TA given by this expert for me to win trades?

That includes many more. It comes with different scenarios just like in poker.

In poker decision making includes:

Should I raise the pot and look for the next cards to be drawn?
Do I have the cards for me to win this round?
Should I go all in?

When you win trades because of following a TA of an expert and you followed your heart going all in, in poker that's luck and also a decision making made by you. But before making a decision, you must think twice, thrice in order to have a better result for yourself.

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 20, 2019, 09:00:09 AM

Quote from: maydna on March 20, 2019, 07:19:05 AM

If we talk about money management and discipline, then I think it has related to all of the gambling games. But how about sports betting? But I don't know but I think in sports betting, we play with probability too.

With sport betting probability is correlated with expected win in that way that casino always wins. Its like roulette. If you have 50% chance to win than you will almost double when it will happened. Almost

.

In poker probability and expected win/loss is not set by casino. You, players, are setting that during betting and that's the moment when skill comes in. When it's going too far and probability is too low than you quit. Just like in trading. When price break support than expected loss is increasing rapidly while probability of profit is descrising - you need to quit and "left your money on the table".

Ability of quitting. That's my point. Ability to not panic hold. No matter if its coin or its hand with dual pairs and bidding is going too far.

Your way of comparison on trading with gambling may be good for you but for all the people doing will not be able to follow it in such a way. Percentage of winning and seeing indicators to speculate the price will not be the same anytime.

We may consider it panic hodl or being safer side. Pure luck and ideal move on trading is not at all a same. That is my point.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: maydna on March 20, 2019, 07:19:05 AM

If we talk about money management and discipline, then I think it has related to all of the gambling games. But how about sports betting? But I don't know but I think in sports betting, we play with probability too.

With sport betting probability is correlated with expected win in that way that casino always wins. Its like roulette. If you have 50% chance to win than you will almost double when it will happened. Almost

.

In poker probability and expected win/loss is not set by casino. You, players, are setting that during betting and that's the moment when skill comes in. When it's going too far and probability is too low than you quit. Just like in trading. When price break support than expected loss is increasing rapidly while probability of profit is descrising - you need to quit and "left your money on the table".

Ability of quitting. That's my point. Ability to not panic hold. No matter if its coin or its hand with dual pairs and bidding is going too far.

maydna

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 19, 2019, 07:46:43 AM

Quote from: maydna on March 19, 2019, 07:32:06 AM

I think it's not just in poker, but it's also in other gambling games. We need to have money management and discipline, so we know the time to get out of the games and saves the rest of the money.

Only in those games where you have hand than you can count (or estimate) probability of winning and bet on that. Only poker and maybe some sort of dice games comes to my mind now. Throw examples what you are thinking of.

If we talk about money management and discipline, then I think it has related to all of the gambling games. But how about sports betting? But I don't know but I think in sports betting, we play with probability too.

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 19, 2019, 07:46:43 AM

Quote from: maydna on March 19, 2019, 07:32:06 AM

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 19, 2019, 06:35:39 AM

Professional trader and poker player will say the same thing: -You loose the most when you are sure that you will win

I agree with this because if we do not realize how much we can make from trading and poker and we still want to make a bigger profit, then gets ready to get a loss because of we can miss the right time to get those profit.

I mean that when you are sure you will win you will bet more and more (in poker when you have Full House not knowing that oponent have Four of a kind) or buying more and more coins even if price is going down unless margincall (in trading).

You will not lose all your money in poker having 5 times nothing in a row. You will lose all your money having Full House.
You will not lose all your money in trading hitting 3% stoploss 5 times in a row. You will lose them all by 1 trade without discipline and money management betting more and more on trade that is not going how it should and you will do this only when you are sure that "big news is comming" or "i'm sure its fake dump" or others.

I will not do that even if I am very sure that I will win. It makes no sense for me to place a higher bet than the money I have in my pocket.

I think in poker, we can lose all at one time if we can't control ourselves and I think it's part of discipline and money management too. This will be the same thing in trading, if we cannot prevent buying one coin with all the money, yes, we will lose that money when we don't know where the trend wants to go.

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There are many characteristics that both gamblers and traders should have but these two activities are totally different.
I don't think that someone is going to improve his trading skills by playing poker. Trading needs a lot of technical analysis before making a decision which is not taught when you play poker.

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Quote from: richminded on March 20, 2019, 05:12:27 AM

Quote from: tokeweed on March 19, 2019, 08:40:35 AM

I totally agree. One huge thing that poker has taught me that translated well in trading is good bankroll management and it's ok to fold and take small losses here and there.

They're both skill games.

We can learn a lot from poker because this is a mind game just like trading so if you do poker its easy now for you to learn trading. But if you want to become a trader, you must not used your gambling experience, it is still good to learn without spending more because in poker you can lose big money so its not good for you to start like this.

They are very similar but that’s the only difference since poker is a more risky game. Its true that we should not treat poker as trading because you don’t see an price movement their you are just basing on the cards that you have. Trading should be treated professionally for you to win big.

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Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on March 19, 2019, 06:35:39 AM

In my opinion trading and poker are very similar. Interface is the only difference. Rules are the same.
I know that part of you will disagree with me with my very first sentence by saying that poker is game of luck and trading is based on indicators, supports, TA, FA and many more. Well you know nothing about trading and poker then

Why poker is not game based only on luck if cards you get are totally random:

Yea. Cards you get are totally random. But how to explain that we have so many professional poker players that play poker for a living? Well the only thing that they differ form those who are loosing is money management and discipline during bidding.. Bidding is the first and only moment that determines if you will lose or earn in poker. That's the hardest part that needs experience. Why?
With infinity plays you will have every possible card set. Good once, bed once. Sometimes you will lose sometimes you will earn. Key is not to lose less times. That impossible. Key is to lose less money with bed cards than you win with good cards. That's where money management and discipline comes. In poker that's especially hard because you have to say good bye to your money even with quite good card without battle if bidding is going too far and calculated probability of winning is showing you red light to bet higher. But that's the hand that makes bed player go home with 0 and good players stay and fight again.

How about trading?

In trading, you also don't know your opponents "cards". You don't know who is on market (whale are buying or bunch of fomo noobs). If whale than how much money he has left, when will he dump. TA may show various of buy signals but on the other hand that's the best moment for whale to dump (best price and best volume when everyone is sure that price can go only in one direction - f.e after breaking resistance). Will he dump or not? Is support holding for so long because someone is buying at that point or maybe whale stops to sell to don't break it to don't cause panic selling?
How about Fundamental Analysis? That's where we may be even more cheated by insider trading. When news hit market price is very often pumped by whales who new before. NEWS from which you do FA may also be faked by coin team. Even team might be faked.
It means that trading is game of luck? No. That's where money management and discipline comes. Same as with poker. Key is not to lose less times. Key is to lose less money with every bad trade. To cut looses and say good bye to your money even with "quite good card". To learn to enter only those trades with high probability of winning (TA buy signals) combined with low risk (close to support where you could set stop loss). TA indicators are easy to learn in 1-5 days. Good trader is able to earn on market for a living after few years of experience because discipline and money managements takes so much time to master in trading. That's where poker comes in. You can train those skill playing poker where every bet takes minutes not hours/days. You can master those skills faster and even for free playing for unreal money.

Professional trader and poker player will say the same thing: -You loose the most when you are sure that you will win

I think you got your point. Both gamble and traders share the same aspect with regards to handling their money whether they loose or gain in their respective area. Though gamblers have to take higher risk than traders, both of them are risk takers if we were to think of it.

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Quote from: tokeweed on March 19, 2019, 08:40:35 AM

I totally agree. One huge thing that poker has taught me that translated well in trading is good bankroll management and it's ok to fold and take small losses here and there.

They're both skill games.

We can learn a lot from poker because this is a mind game just like trading so if you do poker its easy now for you to learn trading. But if you want to become a trader, you must not used your gambling experience, it is still good to learn without spending more because in poker you can lose big money so its not good for you to start like this.

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Quote from: leea-1334 on March 20, 2019, 04:08:40 AM

The thing about poker is, you make a buy in and you want to win, or you expect to lose it all. So it's a competition, you pay to enter and you beat others. There is some element of skill, a lot of luck.

Trading, there is definitely element of luck but no one should be going to trade and thinking,,, I will win 10x or lose it all. No, they have targets, 10% a month, or 10% a quarter.

So no, never say you learn to trade from poker.

You know nothing about poker my friend. You are bidding in poker not only buying in and showing cards. With bidding, you can do money management. I have 2 pairs so i can put max 5% of my wallet hoping to not be overbid and win. Like in trading. I'm bouncing from support. I'll set stoploss just under risking 5% of my wallet hoping for profit till next resistance.

If you are playing poker with strategy like: - I have 2 pairs. Let's see if i can double with that and you put all your money on table than definitely you won't learn anything from poker.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Poker and Trading are similar in terms of high risk like there's no assurance if you can really earn then OP both also are not similar in some terms like for me poker is base on your luck and strategy then trading is base on your strategy like with buy then sell and in the potential where you invest like that will grow still both are unpreditable like you have chance that's why we try this

The thing about poker is, you make a buy in and you want to win, or you expect to lose it all. So it's a competition, you pay to enter and you beat others. There is some element of skill, a lot of luck.

Trading, there is definitely element of luck but no one should be going to trade and thinking,,, I will win 10x or lose it all. No, they have targets, 10% a month, or 10% a quarter.

So no, never say you learn to trade from poker.

Tytanowy Janusz

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Poker and Trading are similar in terms of high risk like there's no assurance if you can really earn then OP both also are not similar in some terms like for me poker is base on your luck and strategy then trading is base on your strategy like with buy then sell and in the potential where you invest like that will grow still both are unpreditable like you have chance that's why we try this

Quote from: omonuyak on March 19, 2019, 01:41:45 PM

Quote from: AjithBtc on March 19, 2019, 09:50:17 AM

I don't find trading same as poker. From my understanding gambling and trading were almost the same. In both form of earning we try our best to spend and get back good return. Here, our predictions need to get coincide with the reality. The coincidence can happen through luck or through the skills and strategies developed in correspondence to the trade as well with the event.

I also did not think poker and trading are the same because I have been trading for long and I have been following the poker events and following how people are luck to win. Trading is base on the analysis and poker is purely on luck.

Luck and luck in your posts all the time.
Roulette is the game of luck because in infinity rolls with statistic output you will lose all your money. Because betting on red all the time you will win 18 times and loose 19 times out of 37. That one times out of 37 will burn your wallet. No strategy/system will help to avoid that because every roll is exact the same. The only way to earn is by having luck. In roulette, you play against casino where casino has baseball and you have bare hands. That's why you need luck to win
Poker is different. You play against other player. You both have bare hands.
If you play once your win is based on your luck. But with thousands plays luck does not matter. You will have almost every possible hands so as your opponent. Money management and discipline will be the factor that will let you win 300 times out of 1000 but put out $2000 from $1000 invested while your opponent will win 700 times out of 1000 and exit with empty pockets.

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I totally agree on OP about the bankroll management of both trading and poker but not every gambling game is the same as trading.
There are games that don't give you a good result in the long run and might burn your money and put you on debt.
And the chances of getting addicted to gambling is very high, that's why it is not advisable to play it in the long run if you can't control yourself first.

Bitinity

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I cant fully agree with the comparison between poker and trading. Although the main idea is bankroll management but the process is completely different. Poker is a gambling game, there is an instant result unlike trading where the result is based on ourselves. Traders may not lose their money on every decision they make (on buying coins) till they decide to sell what they bought. On other hand, once you make a decision on poker or any other games you should be ready to lose as you can delay the result.

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Quote from: swogerino on March 19, 2019, 07:40:32 AM

It is a good idea to play poker to improve your skills.I think that trading is a lot like gambling and the only difference is trading has better publicity compared to gambling.

While gambling is considered bad by most of the community trading is considered neutral.However you should be careful as both in gambling or trading you risk to become addicted.

Gambling is considered bad due to possible addiction that it can give out but on general sense it isnt really bad at all since its just an entertainment.It is only how people do treat with it thats why
we do see mostly negative effects on the community.

Comparing Poker to trading,i dont really see any correlation between these two other than on the risk involved but talking on the chance on how to be profitable then they would really vary actually.

Topic: Play poker to train trading - page 10. (Read 1919 times)