That's the best approach you can have imo. People here like to say that in gambling positive outcome is never guaranteed, but in fact it is never guaranteed in trading either even if you are the most experienced trader in the world. Success comes to those who realize that they can lose at any moment regardless of their knowledge of the situation, and thus they never risk big amounts, and if they lose they are not bankrupt because of that, they can continue their activity and if they are good at it there are good chances of being successful in the long run.
Agreed. thats the point of the whole topic and thats the attitude you can learn much faster in Poker than in trading and its usefull in whole life. Be ready for a punch no matter how sure of winning you are. 
Topic: Play poker to train trading - page 8. (Read 1849 times)
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I was speaking with trader with 30 years experience a lot. Calm and always ready for a punch. That was his attitude. When i came excited and said that i've earned 30% in short term on stocks he only ask - Did you sold and withdraw? No.. You earn nothing than. Even the best analysis won't protect you against the black Swan.
I was speaking with trader with 30 years experience a lot. Calm and always ready for a punch. That was his attitude. When i came excited and said that i've earned 30% in short term on stocks he only ask - Did you sold and withdraw? No.. You earn nothing than. Even the best analysis won't protect you against the black Swan.
That's the best approach you can have imo. People here like to say that in gambling positive outcome is never guaranteed, but in fact it is never guaranteed in trading either even if you are the most experienced trader in the world. Success comes to those who realize that they can lose at any moment regardless of their knowledge of the situation, and thus they never risk big amounts, and if they lose they are not bankrupt because of that, they can continue their activity and if they are good at it there are good chances of being successful in the long run.
When I read that it was necessary to be a professional to make profits in the market (what I agree with), I remembered an experiment carried out once before by Professor Prinston who compared the results on the stock exchange achieved by experts and monkeys throwing drafts. I do not know if you've heard this story?
"Give a monkey enough darts and they’ll beat the market. So says a draft article by Research Affiliates highlighting the simulated results of 100 monkeys throwing darts at the stock pages in a newspaper. The average monkey outperformed the index by an average of 1.7 percent per year since 1964. That’s a lot of bananas!
What is all this monkey business? It started in 1973 when Princeton University professor Burton Malkiel claimed in his bestselling book, A Random Walk Down Wall Street, that “A blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a newspaper's financial pages could select a portfolio that would do just as well as one carefully selected by experts.”
“Malkiel was wrong,” stated Rob Arnott, CEO of Research Affiliates, while speaking at the IMN Global Indexing and ETFs conference earlier this month. “The monkeys have done a much better job than both the experts and the stock market.”
In their yet-to-be-published article, the company randomly selected 100 portfolios containing 30 stocks from a 1,000 stock universe. They repeated this processes every year, from 1964 to 2010, and tracked the results. The process replicated 100 monkeys throwing darts at the stock pages each year. Amazingly, on average, 98 of the 100 monkey portfolios beat the 1,000 stock capitalization weighted stock universe each year."
source and whole article you can find here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2012/12/20/any-monkey-can-beat-the-market/
I wonder what the results would look like when a similar experiment like the stock market and monkeys would be done with the cryptocurrency market. Maybe it would turn out that trading in cryptocurrencies is more like not even for poker, but simple gambling than we think?
Interesting experiment. I've heard about it when I was learning TA. It throws different light on all of those who are claiming that trading (in contrast to poker) is based only on strategy, technique and experience and there is no luck involved. Of course it is. Without luck, you can do best analysis and still be hit by a whale."Give a monkey enough darts and they’ll beat the market. So says a draft article by Research Affiliates highlighting the simulated results of 100 monkeys throwing darts at the stock pages in a newspaper. The average monkey outperformed the index by an average of 1.7 percent per year since 1964. That’s a lot of bananas!
What is all this monkey business? It started in 1973 when Princeton University professor Burton Malkiel claimed in his bestselling book, A Random Walk Down Wall Street, that “A blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a newspaper's financial pages could select a portfolio that would do just as well as one carefully selected by experts.”
“Malkiel was wrong,” stated Rob Arnott, CEO of Research Affiliates, while speaking at the IMN Global Indexing and ETFs conference earlier this month. “The monkeys have done a much better job than both the experts and the stock market.”
In their yet-to-be-published article, the company randomly selected 100 portfolios containing 30 stocks from a 1,000 stock universe. They repeated this processes every year, from 1964 to 2010, and tracked the results. The process replicated 100 monkeys throwing darts at the stock pages each year. Amazingly, on average, 98 of the 100 monkey portfolios beat the 1,000 stock capitalization weighted stock universe each year."
source and whole article you can find here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2012/12/20/any-monkey-can-beat-the-market/
I wonder what the results would look like when a similar experiment like the stock market and monkeys would be done with the cryptocurrency market. Maybe it would turn out that trading in cryptocurrencies is more like not even for poker, but simple gambling than we think?
I was speaking with trader with 30 years experience a lot. Calm and always ready for a punch. That was his attitude. When i came excited and said that i've earned 30% in short term on stocks he only ask - Did you sold and withdraw? No.. You earn nothing than. Even the best analysis won't protect you against the black Swan.
Not necessarily have to be poker. There are even people who consider trading as gambling. The thing is even poker seem more predictable than trading - you can calculate chances. Much of trading is emotions and manipulation.
The lesson of taking small losses like folding holds true in trading though.
The lesson of taking small losses like folding holds true in trading though.
People who consider trading as gambling is because they don't have information related to trend or the price moves, so they gamble and hope that they are lucky. If you can use the analysis with a right, then you are not gambling but you trade base on the sign in the market, and you can calculate the chances to get the profit. But for me, poker is not predictable because we need to learn how to play poker with right too and in the poker, there will be pressure from every player.
I'm thinking more about how prices can just plummet over certain news, like what we've seen happen with Bitcoins and China before. There are less factors to consider with cards games. Both have their own unpredictability.
I think playing poker will not help you to train trade because trading and gambling is different.
Trading and gambling has some similarities and by been able to do one we can do other. A gambler has a risk mind and it is that mind that will enable you to succeed in trading. Remember that many traders are afraid of losing money and it is an experience in gambling that will enable you to see trading as something worthwhile. Well,it's a myth that poker players are good traders.Some company hired poker players to manage their stock trading and they have lost almost evetything.I forgot the name of the company,I'll try to find it.
For me,poker a game that is mostly about luck,trading requires more knowledge about the markets,proper analysis and applying diversification to your financial assets.
For me,poker a game that is mostly about luck,trading requires more knowledge about the markets,proper analysis and applying diversification to your financial assets.
I think that one example is not enough to definitively disprove the hypothesis. Why did they lose almost everything if skills get from poker are definitely useful in trading. Maybe there was something we didn't know about? When was that? in 2000/2008 during bubbles where almost every trader zero wallet?
but im completely disagree with some points.
There are lots of sources online if you do tend to trading poker and trading.
Many trader's out there is buying at the cheap rate and hold for a long time because only time can tell if they can make profit or not.
Well,it's a myth that poker players are good traders.Some company hired poker players to manage their stock trading and they have lost almost evetything.I forgot the name of the company,I'll try to find it.
For me,poker a game that is mostly about luck,trading requires more knowledge about the markets,proper analysis and applying diversification to your financial assets.
For me,poker a game that is mostly about luck,trading requires more knowledge about the markets,proper analysis and applying diversification to your financial assets.
I think that one example is not enough to definitively disprove the hypothesis. Why did they lose almost everything if skills get from poker are definitely useful in trading. Maybe there was something we didn't know about? When was that? in 2000/2008 during bubbles where almost every trader zero wallet?
but im completely disagree with some points.
There are lots of sources online if you do tend to trading poker and trading.
Well,it's a myth that poker players are good traders.Some company hired poker players to manage their stock trading and they have lost almost evetything.I forgot the name of the company,I'll try to find it.
For me,poker a game that is mostly about luck,trading requires more knowledge about the markets,proper analysis and applying diversification to your financial assets.
For me,poker a game that is mostly about luck,trading requires more knowledge about the markets,proper analysis and applying diversification to your financial assets.
I think that one example is not enough to definitively disprove the hypothesis. Why did they lose almost everything if skills get from poker are definitely useful in trading. Maybe there was something we didn't know about? When was that? in 2000/2008 during bubbles where almost every trader zero wallet?
I think playing poker will not help you to train trade because trading and gambling is different.
Trading and gambling has some similarities and by been able to do one we can do other. A gambler has a risk mind and it is that mind that will enable you to succeed in trading. Remember that many traders are afraid of losing money and it is an experience in gambling that will enable you to see trading as something worthwhile. Not necessarily have to be poker. There are even people who consider trading as gambling. The thing is even poker seem more predictable than trading - you can calculate chances. Much of trading is emotions and manipulation.
The lesson of taking small losses like folding holds true in trading though.
The lesson of taking small losses like folding holds true in trading though.
People who consider trading as gambling is because they don't have information related to trend or the price moves, so they gamble and hope that they are lucky. If you can use the analysis with a right, then you are not gambling but you trade base on the sign in the market, and you can calculate the chances to get the profit. But for me, poker is not predictable because we need to learn how to play poker with right too and in the poker, there will be pressure from every player.
go all in, and that's for sure how things depends, knowledge upon from what you are doing gives you confidence to decide well.
With OP's last statement, you will lose when you think you'll gonna win, that's for sure apply also in trading, shit happens and trends
reversal kills your positions even you are seeing lots of indications and followed every information you've collected, there's always whales
that can manipulate needs to consider that.
I think playing poker will not help you to train trade because trading and gambling is different.
Poker and trading has a big difference because trading has a different way to earn money unlike playing poker. 
Not necessarily have to be poker. There are even people who consider trading as gambling. The thing is even poker seem more predictable than trading - you can calculate chances. Much of trading is emotions and manipulation.
The lesson of taking small losses like folding holds true in trading though.
The lesson of taking small losses like folding holds true in trading though.
People who consider trading as gambling is because they don't have information related to trend or the price moves, so they gamble and hope that they are lucky. If you can use the analysis with a right, then you are not gambling but you trade base on the sign in the market, and you can calculate the chances to get the profit. But for me, poker is not predictable because we need to learn how to play poker with right too and in the poker, there will be pressure from every player.
I think playing poker will not help you to train trade because trading and gambling is different.
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If only calculating probabilities could make you a good trader that would make sense. In poker you can sometimes see a clear outcome. Like when you have aces the probability of somebody hitting royal to beat you is close to 0 although such things often happen in the movies.
If only calculating probabilities could make you a good trader that would make sense. In poker you can sometimes see a clear outcome. Like when you have aces the probability of somebody hitting royal to beat you is close to 0 although such things often happen in the movies.
If you mean Quad Aces, it can be beaten by any straight flush, not necessarily royal. But of course you can tell by seeing the cards on the table can anyone have that combination or not. That's why sometimes in poker you can be 100% sure about the outcome. But then again, how often do we have any Quads, let alone Quad Aces? In most cases it's enough to have a Three-of-a-Kind hand to win the pot, and we can go all-in with such a hand although the probability of winning in this case if far from being 100%.
In trading you can never be this sure. There's too many things to consider and even very experienced traders can't seem to predict where cryptocurrencies will go.
As you can see, we can rarely be "this sure" in poker either, and that's where good money management comes into play. The amount of money risked should correlate with the probability of positive outcome.
Not necessarily have to be poker. There are even people who consider trading as gambling. The thing is even poker seem more predictable than trading - you can calculate chances. Much of trading is emotions and manipulation.
The lesson of taking small losses like folding holds true in trading though.
The lesson of taking small losses like folding holds true in trading though.
The poker and trading also same have risk especially today the movement of price value in the coin market cap is very volatile while buying altcoin for trading. Playing poker the risk is if the player not setting up greed control possible to lose huge mone.
I think there is no lesson that you can take in poker for trading besides knowing that both have a high risk too. what are the important lessons of poker that you can implement in trading? both are different you know, strategies, which determine of win, its different.If you would spend at least 5 min to read OP you will know what lesson you can take from poker and apply into trading. If you would read even only last sentence you would know that too.
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Professional trader and poker player will say the same thing: -You lose the most when you are sure that you will win
The poker and trading also same have risk especially today the movement of price value in the coin market cap is very volatile while buying altcoin for trading. Playing poker the risk is if the player not setting up greed control possible to lose huge mone.
I think there is no lesson that you can take in poker for trading besides knowing that both have a high risk too. what are the important lessons of poker that you can implement in trading? both are different you know, strategies, which determine of win, its different.
The poker and trading also same have risk especially today the movement of price value in the coin market cap is very volatile while buying altcoin for trading. Playing poker the risk is if the player not setting up greed control possible to lose huge mone.
Still I don't agree with the statement.
Give me good cards everytime and let's escape with your poker skills, there is no chance. Also when you say you can beat someone in poker, it hugely depends on where you play, online or in real life, on regular table or on very fast one. In real life yeah, you have chanses avoid dependant on luck because you can understand others' emotions but online that's impossible because everyone can sit and go anytime and you don't have time to know their psychology + you can't understand their physical emotion expressions.
Trading isn't skill based too, luck is very important here too, you can't monitor price for 24 hour + using bots can sometimes ruin your profit or lose your chance of far better profit. You also don't know what statements there will be which may affect price, you don't know which exchange will be hacked tomorrow, you don't know which exchange will maybe stop withdrawals, you don'y know if coinmarketcap remove any exchanger from their list, yeah, it still hugely depends on luck.
Give me good cards everytime and let's escape with your poker skills, there is no chance. Also when you say you can beat someone in poker, it hugely depends on where you play, online or in real life, on regular table or on very fast one. In real life yeah, you have chanses avoid dependant on luck because you can understand others' emotions but online that's impossible because everyone can sit and go anytime and you don't have time to know their psychology + you can't understand their physical emotion expressions.
Trading isn't skill based too, luck is very important here too, you can't monitor price for 24 hour + using bots can sometimes ruin your profit or lose your chance of far better profit. You also don't know what statements there will be which may affect price, you don't know which exchange will be hacked tomorrow, you don't know which exchange will maybe stop withdrawals, you don'y know if coinmarketcap remove any exchanger from their list, yeah, it still hugely depends on luck.
I dont think there are very similar, its maybe true to be able to win in either gambling or trading you need to calculate the possibility, but in gambling there are no indicators that could increase your winning chance, in trading we got a lot of support factors and chart, psychology and news also could become the extra point to increase the winning chance
It's not about gambling in general but about poker in particular. Poker game indeed has many similarities with crypto trading according to those who are familiar with both(read the posts above). Maybe you don't play poker much, but trust me, this is not just a luck based game, and to play it good you have to do more than calculating probabilities. Btw, I don't think that looking at charts can help you much in trading because all the other traders are looking at the same charts too. ... One of the main points of this thread, put it in a nutshell, is that you shouldn't always go all-in even if your chances of winning are very good, neither in poker nor in trading.
If only calculating probabilities could make you a good trader that would make sense. In poker you can sometimes see a clear outcome. Like when you have aces the probability of somebody hitting royal to beat you is close to 0 although such things often happen in the movies.
In trading you can never be this sure. There's too many things to consider and even very experienced traders can't seem to predict where cryptocurrencies will go.
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