Topic: Play poker to train trading - page 9. (Read 1917 times)

When I read that it was necessary to be a professional to make profits in the market (what I agree with), I remembered an experiment carried out once before by Professor Prinston who compared the results on the stock exchange achieved by experts and monkeys throwing drafts. I do not know if you've heard this story?

"Give a monkey enough darts and they’ll beat the market. So says a draft article by Research Affiliates highlighting the simulated results of 100 monkeys throwing darts at the stock pages in a newspaper. The average monkey outperformed the index by an average of 1.7 percent per year since 1964. That’s a lot of bananas!

What is all this monkey business? It started in 1973 when Princeton University professor Burton Malkiel claimed in his bestselling book, A Random Walk Down Wall Street, that “A blindfolded monkey throwing darts at a newspaper's financial pages could select a portfolio that would do just as well as one carefully selected by experts.”

“Malkiel was wrong,” stated Rob Arnott, CEO of Research Affiliates, while speaking at the IMN Global Indexing and ETFs conference earlier this month. “The monkeys have done a much better job than both the experts and the stock market.”

In their yet-to-be-published article, the company randomly selected 100 portfolios containing 30 stocks from a 1,000 stock universe. They repeated this processes every year, from 1964 to 2010, and tracked the results. The process replicated 100 monkeys throwing darts at the stock pages each year. Amazingly, on average, 98 of the 100 monkey portfolios beat the 1,000 stock capitalization weighted stock universe each year."

source and whole article you can find here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2012/12/20/any-monkey-can-beat-the-market/

I wonder what the results would look like when a similar experiment like the stock market and monkeys would be done with the cryptocurrency market. Maybe it would turn out that trading in cryptocurrencies is more like not even for poker, but simple gambling than we think?

I do agree with both OP and cryptovigi's post. The poker can be more commonly considered as a game of skill and not just a game of luck. Gambling is entirely different from investing or trading stocks or cryptocurrency on the whole. For in order to get a profit in trading one must be aware of the market conditions, the condition of the stocks, the development in the coin etc. But gambling is purely based on luck and it does always wins in favour of the casino. Careful trading will make you earn serious profits but careful gambling in most of the times results in losses. Similarly, a poker game cannot be categorized as a gambling game. They are based on the skill of the player and his professional tactics he has earned over the period of time by playing the game.

Not all poker players are gamblers, they are not risking their money based on the luck. They do believe in their skill and the weakness of the opposite weak minded player. Another note worthy thing is that, serious poker players can make a living like a trader but a professional gambling addict always loses his hard earned money to the rich casino. Some gamblers lose the money on poker based games, but they need to be blamed for that. Winning in a poker is based on his analysis of the opponent, and the ideas he has gained from his previous poker winning experiences.

No gambling is safe per se, but indeed with good money management you can increase your chances of winning in poker. If you've been successful in trading so far it means you know how to manage your funds and thus there are good chances of you being good in poker. Only just don't start with tournaments with high buy-ins or cash games with high stakes, go little by little at first. There are tournaments in which you can potentially win hundreds of USD paying just $2 for the ticket. Start with those ones first.

It's funny that the intention of this thread was to say that you can learn trading by playing poker, and for you it's going to be vice versa.

The part about "poker dumping" not being like typical cryptocurrency sounds interesting.
If ever I become a gambler, poker will probably be my first try. I have heard alot of good things about it. I does seem like a safe gambling.

Nice comparison though. Playing poker doesnt literally train you to be a good trader with having good investment on coins but rather it trains you to have a strong mindset and have a greater analysis which is a requirement to become a wise trader.

Psychology plays a huge role in Poker too, not only in trading/investing. In fact, i would go as far as to say that it plays a really important role in life as a whole.

Things like news rarely help with small things but they could, for example could anything that happens affects the mindset of any Poker opponent? Could be rain, could be snow, could be another thing?

I truly respects poker because it takes strategy and other things to win. And skill plays a huge role in it. I never considered it to be like trading but it certainly is in some aspects and traits needed to perform them.

Both are risky and we can learn a lot from these two. In poker its a good way to prepare for your trading experience because of the decisions that you will make. Trading is too bad for the shitcoins better to look for other coin who moves in the right way because of the right reason.

I think that one example is not enough to definitively disprove the hypothesis. Why did they lose almost everything if skills get from poker are definitely useful in trading. Maybe there was something we didn't know about? When was that? in 2000/2008 during bubbles where almost every trader zero wallet?

What i think makes these two similar is the traits that a poker player and a trader should have when they trade or play. Both needs analytical skills and an extreme amount of patience as well as good control over one's emotions. Yeah they're different as they are but a poker player with good instincts can have a good grasp on how to play in the market.

I haven't played poker before but I think it is much harder than cryptocurrency trading from what I have read and experienced. It is possible to make more profit than loses from day trading, even as non professional trader. Is this possible with poker?

Well,it's a myth that poker players are good traders.Some company hired poker players to manage their stock trading and they have lost almost evetything.I forgot the name of the company,I'll try to find it.
For me,poker a game that is mostly about luck,trading requires more knowledge about the markets,proper analysis and applying diversification to your financial assets.

This is indeed the fact that both of them have no relationship, nevertheless, poker can also be a strategy game and I want to believe that strategy is what they both have in common, poker is not like every other gambling game that is a game of luck.

Even if we can still see  LUCK too plays out in poker but if you have a good strategy, you can be sure of winning which trading too has its own strategy and when traded well, the chances of making it in trading is quite high, when you don’t apply strategy to trading, that is when it becomes like gambling.

When it comes to playing Poker, things boils down to probability and you do not have clear signs and signals to make your moves like you do have in trading. So, poker is quite different from trading and trading after playing poker will be much easy and might give you some desirable outcomes as well since you step down to a relatively easier game from a difficult one.

Trading can make you money when market is green and you just do not choose to trade when market is down.

It all depends on money you put in. If you put 100 000 $ into coin which was dumped 30% during night you lost 30 000$ in 8h. It will take weeks to lose that much playing poker on table with 100$ max bet. Poker with money management may be less risky than trading without it.

Playing poker and trading only have similarities but different ways of working, gambling has a very high risk compared to trading and gambling by betting and then playing and trading just choosing coins that are good for trading and waiting.
trading will still have profitable opportunities and very little losses all depend on expertise in analysis, compared to poker gambling or other gambling if it is not controlled it will lose everything in an instant.
definitely has advantages and disadvantages and different ways.

It's not about gambling in general but about poker in particular. Poker game indeed has many similarities with crypto trading according to those who are familiar with both(read the posts above). Maybe you don't play poker much, but trust me, this is not just a luck based game, and to play it good you have to do more than calculating probabilities. Btw, I don't think that looking at charts can help you much in trading because all the other traders are looking at the same charts too. ... One of the main points of this thread, put it in a nutshell, is that you shouldn't always go all-in even if your chances of winning are very good, neither in poker nor in trading.

I dont think there are very similar, its maybe true to be able to win in either gambling or trading you need to calculate the possibility, but in gambling there are no indicators that could increase your winning chance, in trading we got a lot of support factors and chart, psychology and news also could become the extra point to increase the winning chance

Partially I agree with you I see trading more like poker table where n whales are fighting for big money and we, small traders are predicting which one of them will win to join and win with him. I've seen many times those battles on market when big whale push price in one direction and suddenly price stopped high volume appeared and price moved in another direction forcing smaller whale to close position on loss boosting price even further. I doubt that on btc/usdt pair there is only 1 whale who is setting price like he need it to be. Its more like result of constant battle. Maybe on small  <500btc volume coins its like you said.

I even heard opinion that every interval has its sponsor. On 5 min candles small whales are fighting for their profit pushing price in direction that they want. On 1h candles middle whales are fighting on bigger volumes. On 1d candles huge whales are pushing price pumping milions to set it how they want. Enormous whales are fighting on 1w candles, because only on that huge interval they can find volume that is right for them. Funny thing starts to happened when 5 min candle whale is trying to set price how he want it hitting in 1w whale wall.

No doubt trading is as risky as poker for newbie trader but if you have good knowledge and experience, you can minimize this risk to a great extent. On the other hand, there is no way to minimize the risk involved in Poker.
However there is no such case where by playing the poker you can learn trading. Both are separate things.

Many ?  I dont think so . i think there is only one  . that is both trader and gambler are risk taker    .  both activities are not totally different but they are simillar due to risk that you will be facing  .


When you play poker , you will be more confident about the risk that you will face and i think this can be shoulder on your next trading session in which youl be more confident  


Why not ?  When you play  poker , you also analyze the cards before you lay it on the table .