Topic: Poll: is it OK to send merits to your own alts? - page 2. (Read 23161 times)

You nailed it! I also disagree on the concept of one's giving a merit into his alt account/s. Okay let's say that we will not put the violation of rules and being unethical into considerations yet for me it was still a terrible idea because you are only fooling yourself (like what cabalism13 said). Have you ever heard a story of a heroic soldier who gave himself the Medal of Honor as a reward for his own bravery? Of course not! There's no such thing like that. A true recognition should came from others — from other people who appreciate your work and effort, not from yourself. Giving merits to yourself is a form of "lifting one's own chair" and that is nothing to be proud of.

Nope. It's not an ethical thing to do. And also it just represent an unfair distribution of Merits, no one will ever respect the system if they were given the rights to do that. I do have an alt but sadly I can't use it for I still needed to pay for its Bad IP.

And yet I dont even think about sharing my Merit to my alt, I'll be just fooling myself. I'd rather spend a year or two on ranking up than to be banned because of that Merit thing. Even if you think your post was good enough, I think letting it be, and wait for the others to notice it is still an achievement that's why its unacceptable to share Merits on Alts. (I can let myself an example to this for I was not caring about Merits, though I simply care about ranking up but the fact that I'm really not good on starting some posts,I'm really used on waiting for the others give some credits on my replies and comments. And now here I am having 67Merits for over a year of stay starting on 0 Merits. - Its already an achievement for I've been able to escape the shitposter zone)

I voted NO
It could be forgivable if the member just has a problem with his ego/self-esteem, the same way people like their own post on Facebook.
But we know very well that the reason is to be able to participate in bounty campaigns. Nothing wrong to participate in, but I just see it as abusing the forum, its members, the campaign manager, and the project advertised

[quote page 4]Anybody can create sock puppets accounts to vote Yes or No[/quote]
No

[quote page 3]Are ALT accounts ethical?
NO[/quote]

I would say No too but I am thinking someone could need an alt because his account represents a company/website, it's understandable.

I was more interested in reasoning than the vote count. I don't think I've heard a compelling argument why meriting alts would be acceptable. There might be some disagreement as to what the correct remedy is though.

"Democracy is the power of equal votes for unequal minds." Charles I of England

Anybody can create sock puppets accounts to vote Yes or No. Every vote is counted equally no matter how intelligent or stupid you are.
It is sad that users have created so flawed logics or feigned ignorance just to suit themselves.

I don't know about scamminess. But the thread is extremely shitty, self-moderated but not really moderated, and MikeMike himself multi-bumps it a lot with his own account and alts. Disregard for forum rules just like most shitcoin threads.


I have already agreed to not red-trust his new alts, just the two involved in the 40-merit trade. Normally I would neg-trust any known alts because a scammer is a scammer. So this would allow him to create the "team" account he wanted and abandon the red trusted one with 40 merits.

I hate these kinds of deals though because now it obligates me to watch if MikeMike and/or the team is involved in any shenanigans and if anything untoward happens it's going to be my fault. So that's about as far as I can go with it.


Nothing violent in PMs. Just the regular "I didn't do anything wrong" spiel in a dozen different ways. The posts that I deleted in this thread had some ad hominems but I'm not gonna hold personal grudges. I'm not the nicest person to deal with so I expect nothing less in return

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Please create a new thread in Reputation and post anything you want there. I will add a link to it here.

I'm deleting all this nonsense from this thread because you're clearly not listening. Your "defense" here is over and you're no longer welcome to post in this thread.

I agree and this is basically what I was trying to express earlier in this thread (post #4)

I don't mind that this tag was placed since it is an unethical act and was quite a few merits but the post referenced does lend credence to the claim it was a mistake made out of pure ignorance.

I have seen in the past seemingly legit companies ruining relations with bitcointalk out of pure ignorance and at times it feels a shame that they just didn't read the rules and understand the cultural etiquette here before they made mistakes.

It would depend a bit for me on the scammyness of whatever this "KORE" project is. I haven't really looked at it..
Can anyone that knows give me/us a quick scammyness rating of this on a scale from 1 to 10? (apart from this merit problem)

If the scammynss of this all is relatively low other than this meriting I think it would be nice of Suchmoon to possibly make a deal on this issue..

Some things I can think of......

1. Burn the merited account.. Send the password of it to Suchmoon for destruction of the account..
I think this would basically destroy the sent merit and Mike would just have lost the smerit..
Maybe all of its posts can be deleted too before burning it..

2. Maybe make mike read the rules and make 100 good reports and/or make him write you a small essay on the working of the merit system and the ethics thereof so he will be henceforth educated..

3. Make him wear the red for 3 months or so as a warning to others and then change it to a neutral..

If he otherwise seems to bring value to the forum..

Also depending on these "attacks"..
If he has been belligerent, violent, extremely disrespectful, threatening, much bad behavior otherwise maybe he should keep the red just for his reaction if it has been terrible..
I'm not sure we have all of these PMs/"attacks" available..

I havent sent merit to anyone (i dont think at least) i did look into how it works and i disagree with the impact it has on other systems. There is no way to "not use" the merit system as you are required to have x amount of merit for each bitcointalk level, you should know this as you are telling me to look up how it works.

As for negative comments, frankly i dont care about those either. There is a massive difference between negative/critical comments and fud/shitposting and you should damn well know that.

Matrix

That's pretty solid logic if you ask me.

And while I think it's certainly abuse, I don't believe Theymos wants DT members tagging members who merit their alts.  DT members have done it in the past, but in the past few months I don't think a lot of merit-swapping deals have gotten negged.  It all depends on how blatant and extensive the abuse is and IF a DT member feels like giving them a neg. 

As for myself, I've pretty much bowed out of tagging merit abusers.  There is too much subjectivity in these cases and too many chances to erroneously neg a bunch of people all at once.  I'd much rather stick to the relatively black-and-white offenses of account selling and such.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bitcointalk+merit

First result:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/merit-new-rank-requirements-2818350

See also the pinned posts in Meta: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0 - particularly ones about rules and merit.

Any questions should be directed to those threads or create a new thread if you feel there is something that hasn't been addressed. This is not the right place for that.

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Stop copy-pasting FFS.

For all the concern about the improper use of the Bitcointalk Merit system I cant get any clear answers nor links to the Merit Rules of use.
I just did a search and cannot find them.
One thing is clear.
The Bitcointalk Merit system is not working the way it should, people are not using it correctly, or not using it at all.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.49083888
Some of that misuse is clearly for ill purposes and some is not.
To set oneself up as the judge and executioner is a bit of an issue.
I do not see an effort to educate people here at all.
A bunch of posts about you should have known and ignorance are useless judgmental meddling without the dispensing of knowledge.
To impute bad motive does not help either and it is clear people are doing that.

This thread is not about education it is about judgment.
Post relevant links to the Merit System Rules.
How much do you get and when?

One of them did it (MikeMike). Not sure about the other "yes" votes. There is some reasoning on pages 2 and 3 but it kinda got drowned in off-topic nonsense.

Lol, 10% of the poll results choose "Yes". Have they entered their reason in this thread? Or they give irony reasons because they did it (sent merit to their alts)

Great, then don't use it, problem solved.

Here's the issue with you and Mike and many other shitcoiners: you don't give a damn about the forum beyond the ability to peddle your shitcoin. Mike has a self-moderated thread but he lets the garbage posts in. None of you report those posts to moderators either. Mike multiposts with his own account and with the alts as well, including in this thread. He even tried to promote his sale thread here. Merits are stupid except when you can use them in some made-up scenario to make "corporate" accounts look better than they are. Plus a bunch of lame-ass excuses about images, translators, etc - makes no sense. Buy a Copper account, that's what it's for.

Right. As long as it's not negative, you'll let trash through. I see. Too much of a bother, eh?

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Inundating your team account with merit is not something that makes sense. That's artificially increasing the reputation of the posts, whether you care or not.

When a new system is introduced, shouldn't you generally check to see how it works and what effects it has upon other systems? If you had done so, you would have only sent 1 merit.^*

oooooooooookkkkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy since my livelyhood will be attacked ill respond to this.
What this all boils down to is, are alt accounts ethical and is KOREDev an alt account.

Are ALT accounts ethical?

• NO
  

Is it ethical to send merits to your own alts?

• No, an alt is unethical, enabling those alts to do more damage is unethical as well.

What is an alt account?

• An alt account is a secondary, third, fourth, etc, account that is meant to hide activity you dont want viewable on your account, the only real reason you would have an alt is to deceive others. Seeing as KOREDev was not made for a single user and was not made to hide questionable activity it is not an alt.
  

Is KOREdev an alt account?

• NO, KOREdev was made to be a team account that multiple users could have access to in order to post updates in different language threads due to an old dev leaving who screwed us over and now we have no access to those language threads and have to effectively kill them.
• It could be argued that it is currently an alt because we haven't had the time/money to hire a set of translators. this has some grounds. however, due to the merit system, it would be pointless for us to do so until the activity level of the account is up and the account actually can be utilized by multiple translators at a single time without logistical issues

should we care more about "spam" comments

• Yea probably, but as long as it's not fud frankly we don't care, you could post "this is a weird project" or "who cares about privacy" and we probably wouldn't delete those either

Why are we (KORE) self moderated?

• Have you ever been on a mod moderated thread? increadibly slow to respond/delete things

Do I care for BTCT's merit system?

• NO, its stupid and a pain in the ass. I can see the use case for it but the execution is piss poor

I understand and respect wanting to protect people from scams, hell I do that and similar on an almost daily basis. Though I do not care for the unfounded attack on my ethics. It is good to question the ethics of everyone. But questioning ethics and attacking someone without learning those ethics first are two very different things.

Matrix

I know it is hard but please try and separate KORE, myself and the KORE Team from scams you are used to dealing with.
Just give us a chance here is all Im asking.

EDIT:

I also had no idea that you get (could you confirm) 50 Merit per month?
I do believe most people are not aware of this and I think if they are
made aware would be much less reluctant, and that people would give it away daily even.
Again proper education about its use is key and another thing it took me awhile to get
is that when you send Merit it does not decrease your total Merit shown in your posts.
I think most people believe it does decrease that total Merit number and therefore again are reluctant to give it away.

Fair enough. I have removed neg trust from "KORE - Projects" and I hope you won't risk doing it again.

The other two ratings can't be removed while that 40 merit transaction is still there.


You do. It's a self-moderated thread and you should help the moderators out by removing trash like that. Nothing to do with P&D, just useless posts. But you like them for the free bumps (my opinion).

I have no control over what people post and "go KORE" is not a P&D statement.
I personally dont like it and even asked them to not post it.
But you cant force someone not to be excited if they are and there is nothing wrong with that.
Perhaps they know more than you and remember you called KORE a shitcoin.
Come back in a year.

KORE was attacked and we lost an entire Coder Team.
I let you know this in PM.
I have been honest with you from the beginning and you are blowing things way out of context and making accusations that are frankly not true.


EDIT:
Regarding the 40 Merit sent.
It is what I felt comfortable sending JIC and thought it would be enough to post pictures.
Otherwise I would have sent more if I knew I get more Merit sent to my account regularly to give away.


Thanks,
I used the searchbox at the top of the forum.
Here are my searches:
"Merit System"
"bticointalk merit rules"
"how does merit work"

None were effective.
Bitcointalk clearly has failed in the proper execution of the "Merit System" they adopted.
Does it not make sense to have the terms of use in the actual Merit link in your profile?
Seems most my post that bring out very relevant facts here are being deleted as well as this link to very relevant information on proper merit use.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.49087465