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Topic: [POOL][Scrypt][Scrypt-N][X11] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com - page 90. (Read 465716 times)

newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
Dear Sir Mr. Poolwaffle,

i think, you are doing a great job!   Smiley
Thank you, for your engagement.
Today, please pay out BTC, please.

I like your pool, but wafflepool (stats, and so...) have to change to https://wafflepool.com, no?
Might be better. (Exclude Heardbleed, lol!)

I don't need any singe coin pay out, but for some reason (arbitrage), it might be helpful.

Thank you, for your great pool again...

Greets -Kowi023

sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 254
so why not just take your BTC and buy your POS (pun intended) coin on your own. Am I missing something here?

It's about putting the burden on someone else. If i can just set my miners and not worry about the day to day trading, and only receive the coin i want... then great!

Why not just mine at a pool for that coin? I probably net more this way than direct mining.

There are some coins that are not directly mineable, so I get that part. I still don't see how it is easier or more convenient to set up a multipool (and what about failover pools?) to exchange to the coin as opposed to setting up e.g. Cryptsy autotrade. Keep in mind that waffle and many other pools don't have user registration, so in order to set up any kind of non-default payouts you would have to do something like signed messages.

Yep, this is the major downside of no user accounts.  For this to work it will require signed messages.  We'll try to make it as easy as possible, but would be signing something like "doge=xxxxxxx, ltc=yyyyyyy" from your BTC account, so we can verify it was you.  I expect a huge number of "HOW DOES I SINE?" emails, and a lot of "My address is at my exchange, so I can't sign" problems, so we'll see how that goes...
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
so why not just take your BTC and buy your POS (pun intended) coin on your own. Am I missing something here?

It's about putting the burden on someone else. If i can just set my miners and not worry about the day to day trading, and only receive the coin i want... then great!

Why not just mine at a pool for that coin? I probably net more this way than direct mining.

There are some coins that are not directly mineable, so I get that part. I still don't see how it is easier or more convenient to set up a multipool (and what about failover pools?) to exchange to the coin as opposed to setting up e.g. Cryptsy autotrade. Keep in mind that waffle and many other pools don't have user registration, so in order to set up any kind of non-default payouts you would have to do something like signed messages.
newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0
so why not just take your BTC and buy your POS (pun intended) coin on your own. Am I missing something here?

It's about putting the burden on someone else. If i can just set my miners and not worry about the day to day trading, and only receive the coin i want... then great!

Why not just mine at a pool for that coin? I probably net more this way than direct mining.
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
To be honest I can't understand the appeal of being paid in coins that are not even mined by the pool (BC et al). The pool would have to convert via BTC anyway, so why not just take your BTC and buy your POS (pun intended) coin on your own. Am I missing something here?

Humankind wants to be lazy and lazier Cheesy
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
Could we choose to get paid in which coin ?! or it is a pre-defined list?
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1001
To be honest I can't understand the appeal of being paid in coins that are not even mined by the pool (BC et al). The pool would have to convert via BTC anyway, so why not just take your BTC and buy your POS (pun intended) coin on your own. Am I missing something here?
+1  Grin Grin Grin

+2
hero member
Activity: 676
Merit: 500
To be honest I can't understand the appeal of being paid in coins that are not even mined by the pool (BC et al). The pool would have to convert via BTC anyway, so why not just take your BTC and buy your POS (pun intended) coin on your own. Am I missing something here?
+1  Grin Grin Grin
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
To be honest I can't understand the appeal of being paid in coins that are not even mined by the pool (BC et al). The pool would have to convert via BTC anyway, so why not just take your BTC and buy your POS (pun intended) coin on your own. Am I missing something here?
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 254
OK, so I've got some results here (386 users), probably a decent enough sample size (I'll update if trends in data change).

Requested coin (multi-choice):
BTC 80%
LTC 35%
DOGE 30%
Mined 15%
Other 8%

Only mined coins vs All Converted:
45% only those that were mined
55% convert everything

Exchange fees added (0.3%)
50/50 Yes/No

Comments:
No serious trends, just listings of BC/Vertcoin as options to exchange into for payouts.


So, with all of that in mind, the simplest solution, which conveniently handles the vast majority of the requests, is to add an option to skip exchanging of our mined coins (LTC/Doge to start most likely), and pay those out directly if requested.  Adding a layer to our exchange system is a huge amount of overhead (splitting coins per-account, exchanging to btc, then to another coin, maintaining withdrawals for those other coins, etc).  We can revisit the second part in the future, but this will give us 80% of the coverage, with 20% of the work Wink
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
a) Most likely not going to happen.  Don't think its really feasible due to the fees required sending small amounts of extremely new coins to hundreds/thousands of users, we'd ask to send you 1 coin, and we'd be paying half of that in fees.  Obviously that depends on hashrate somewhat, but its a very high amount typically.
b) This doesn't really make sense.  All that matters is the price at the time that you get them (and even that doesn't really matter).  When you get the coins, either you'll decide to hold them for a time period because you think the price is going to go up, or you'll decide to sell them immediately because you think the price will go down.  What the switcher decided doesn't matter, the coins are already mined and is essentially a sunk-cost.  You decide if you think price is going up or down, and make a decision based on that, and that alone.

Got that. But please, note that:

a) Let's forget the idea that you'll be paying out in every possible coin. LTC and DOGE would suffice.I am also saying that you could trade some coins also for LTCs - if that's possible. Anyhow - pressure on BTC must be eased somehow. BTW, you could put some minimum amounts to be paid in other coins.

b) I am sensing troubles in your thinking. You're switching all the time - to catch the most profitable coin. The most profitable means 'profitable' all the way to my wallet.

So for example, if some pump starts on some coin - you decide to mine it - when coins are mature - the pump is over - and dump starts. You're calculating 'profitability' - but in reality, coins are not exchanged near that figure - which was a deciding factor after all.

There is a new feature I'd like to see at PW. This feature was available at 'middlecoin'. That was a graph - which stayed at zero (0) if coins were sold for the price for which were coins mined. The graph went up - if coins were sold even at higher price and it went under zero - if coins were sold under the mining price.





Blackcoin payout would be a great option!
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
I do rather like idea of being able to auto-trade everything to LTC or some other coin at times.  But, keeping back coins from auto-trade is more.important I think.  If I am long on LTC, it makes little sense to trade mined LTC to BTC.

---

Bbbbbb2014: PoolWaffle's logic is sound. A sunk cost is a sunk cost.  Knowing the expected value is irrelevent.  You either auto-trade them when you can, or you speculate that given coin will go up and you stay long.

That said, I have always wanted to see some luck and expected profitability stats.  Expected profitability + luck + exchange variance data would all excite the nerd in me, heh.
member
Activity: 93
Merit: 10
a) Most likely not going to happen.  Don't think its really feasible due to the fees required sending small amounts of extremely new coins to hundreds/thousands of users, we'd ask to send you 1 coin, and we'd be paying half of that in fees.  Obviously that depends on hashrate somewhat, but its a very high amount typically.
b) This doesn't really make sense.  All that matters is the price at the time that you get them (and even that doesn't really matter).  When you get the coins, either you'll decide to hold them for a time period because you think the price is going to go up, or you'll decide to sell them immediately because you think the price will go down.  What the switcher decided doesn't matter, the coins are already mined and is essentially a sunk-cost.  You decide if you think price is going up or down, and make a decision based on that, and that alone.

Got that. But please, note that:

a) Let's forget the idea that you'll be paying out in every possible coin. LTC and DOGE would suffice.I am also saying that you could trade some coins also for LTCs - if that's possible. Anyhow - pressure on BTC must be eased somehow. BTW, you could put some minimum amounts to be paid in other coins.

b) I am sensing troubles in your thinking. You're switching all the time - to catch the most profitable coin. The most profitable means 'profitable' all the way to my wallet.

So for example, if some pump starts on some coin - you decide to mine it - when coins are mature - the pump is over - and dump starts. You're calculating 'profitability' - but in reality, coins are not exchanged near that figure - which was a deciding factor after all.

There is a new feature I'd like to see at PW. This feature was available at 'middlecoin'. That was a graph - which stayed at zero (0) if coins were sold for the price for which were coins mined. The graph went up - if coins were sold even at higher price and it went under zero - if coins were sold under the mining price.



legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
Survey completed.
New here (Noob mining with Gridseed) Hmm, i like it.
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 254
Since there is a decent amount of stuff to do with new payout options, we've got a survey up:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Y3Q9TW2

Thanks Smiley
newbie
Activity: 27
Merit: 0
legendary
Activity: 1473
Merit: 1086
Please add a blackcoin payout ! Smiley
newbie
Activity: 36
Merit: 0
So I think Hashcows is already doing something similar. (payout in other than BTC)

You can see a post about it on their News page: https://hashco.ws/news/ (march 25th)

Glad to see more pools adopting this idea though. I would love to paid out in DigitalCoin only.   Grin

As for payout of specific alts mined and trading the rest out, they have been doing that for quite some time now.

Can't hurt to have more pools doing this though.



sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 254
Payouts would still be done at the normal timings (2x daily).  We wouldn't be offering to exchange coins into anything other than BTC, just offering to send out coins we had mined (and possibly only a subset of the actively mining coins) instead of exchanging them to BTC first.  For this example, lets say we added payouts in LTC.

Let me be more specific.

If I'd be paid in some specific coins then:

a) either you'll sell it
b) either I'll be selling it
c) I'll keep the coins

Obviously I am for option b). And if that's the option - then I am interested in:

a) get coins as soon as they are mature (and not twice a daily)
b) I want to know what was the target price your switcher decided they are worth mining - as I don't want to sell them under that target price - otherwise it is pointless that your switcher choosed the coin - and I sold them cheap (i.e. under the target price).

Was I clear enough?

I understand.  However:
a) Most likely not going to happen.  Don't think its really feasible due to the fees required sending small amounts of extremely new coins to hundreds/thousands of users, we'd ask to send you 1 coin, and we'd be paying half of that in fees.  Obviously that depends on hashrate somewhat, but its a very high amount typically.
b) This doesn't really make sense.  All that matters is the price at the time that you get them (and even that doesn't really matter).  When you get the coins, either you'll decide to hold them for a time period because you think the price is going to go up, or you'll decide to sell them immediately because you think the price will go down.  What the switcher decided doesn't matter, the coins are already mined and is essentially a sunk-cost.  You decide if you think price is going up or down, and make a decision based on that, and that alone.
member
Activity: 93
Merit: 10
Payouts would still be done at the normal timings (2x daily).  We wouldn't be offering to exchange coins into anything other than BTC, just offering to send out coins we had mined (and possibly only a subset of the actively mining coins) instead of exchanging them to BTC first.  For this example, lets say we added payouts in LTC.

Let me be more specific.

If specific coins are mined:

a) either you'll sell it
b) either I'll be selling it
c) I'll keep the coins

Obviously I am for option b). And if that's the option - then I am interested in:

a) get coins as soon as they are mature (and not twice a daily)
b) I want to know what was the target price your switcher decided they are worth mining - as I don't want to sell them under that target price - otherwise it is pointless that your switcher has chosen the coin - and I sold them cheap (i.e. under the target price).

Was I clear enough?
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