Population: Economic strength or weakness - page 5.

Spaceman1000$

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Quote from: bitzizzix on July 19, 2023, 10:26:09 AM

Population growth may be bad for nature and circumstances, but good for business. I mean in general population growth means more households, more customers for all their needs from small to large and to own a house or apartment and other needs and also an increase in population means an increase in the demand for goods and services.
However, if uncontrolled population growth will lead to poverty and unemployment, excessive exploitation of natural resources, overcrowded cities, pollution and so on.
but it all depends on the government because it's not an easy job for them but they have to be able to handle it from top to bottom.

I kind of agree with your line of thought, a high population if properly harnessed Will automatically lead to high productivity and efficiency.
Take a very good look at China, they are over a billion people, but they've been able to manage their economy properly, reducing crime and poverty, they one of the richest countries in the world with a high productive workforce.
There is hardly a country you will go today without seeing a Chinese company operating there. So population growth at some point is advantageous

On the other hand, population growth can be dangerous if not properly handled, like you rightly put it can lead to serious unemployment and poverty. Nations like that have a high percentage of crime rates and unproductive.

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Quote from: MarjorieZimmermanGinger on September 27, 2023, 04:55:07 AM

Quote from: Fiatless on July 19, 2023, 06:06:08 AM

A close look at this situation shows that many of these overpopulated nations mostly in Africa and Asia are underdeveloped. While these underpopulated nations are economically buoyant. I think the reason for the poverty of these developing nations is not the population but bad governance and the inability to maximize and distribute available resources equally. We cannot deny the fact that these overpopulated nations are economically important to these developed nations in terms of human resources. And they contribute immensely to the development of these first-world nations in terms of cheap labour.

Mismanagement is also a problem, causing welfare to fall far short of what society expects. A country that has abundant natural products should be able to get out of the poverty line and be able to make people live at a much more prosperous and sufficient level, especially if human resources are not properly trained to process the natural products they have themselves. In the end they look for workers from outside to do what the people in the country should be able to do and the local people actually become unemployed.

They can take workers from outside if the number of workers in their own country has decreased because there are many people who bet their luck in other countries to make money now. I think this problem will never become a burden for these countries because they can take shortcuts to overcome the decreasing number of workers in their countries.

The fact that nations rich in resources are nevertheless having difficulty providing basic necessities is both funny and depressing. Picture yourself in possession of a gold mine, but without the means or expertise to extract the precious metal. Indeed, it is what these nations are doing. It reminds me of how early Bitcoin critics also failed to recognise the currency's potential. They choose to go the "easy" road of outsourcing rather than investing in their own people. It's a sign of a failing economy if its residents are leaving in droves for other countries in search of better prospects

But relying on outsiders without investing in your own human capital is a dangerous game to play. It may be too late to fix things when these quick cuts eventually fail

uswa56

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Quote from: Alpha Marine on September 26, 2023, 04:45:16 PM

Quote from: palle11 on August 01, 2023, 03:22:33 PM

Under population is not very good and that is what will make a country open their borders for foreigners out of need for labour force. I think there is a solution to this through government policy by giving rewards to couples who increase the numbers of children they give birth to depending on the number stipulated by government. Another point is to discourage abortion because people do that as final resort when they have no other option.

A lot of people do not want kids not because they don't like kids, but because they feel they're not financially ready to have kids and they are not wrong.
Having kids when you can't take care of them is not a good thing to do, so instead of the Government rewarding families that give birth to children, they should find ways to create opportunities for the people, especially young people.

I believe underpopulation is not as big an issue as they make it seem. Don't get me wrong, I know it's an issue but how many countries can show proof that the economy is slow because of underpopulation? Worst case scenario they open their borders for skilled immigrants.

Everyone who wants to have children is of course truly ready to care for and educate them well and if they are not yet able to care for them and educate them well then it would be better to postpone their desire to have children and continue to improve their financial situation so that they can have children and be able to educate him well. I think having a large population and not being able to produce anything will of course be an opportunity for skilled immigrants to be able to work in that area, so there needs to be an effort from the government to train people to be skilled at work, of course this will create economic growth in that area.

Juse14

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Quote from: inthelongrun on September 27, 2023, 07:59:03 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on September 27, 2023, 01:51:47 AM

Quote from: Alpha Marine on September 26, 2023, 04:45:16 PM

A lot of people do not want kids not because they don't like kids, but because they feel they're not financially ready to have kids and they are not wrong.
Having kids when you can't take care of them is not a good thing to do, so instead of the Government rewarding families that give birth to children, they should find ways to create opportunities for the people, especially young people.

I believe underpopulation is not as big an issue as they make it seem. Don't get me wrong, I know it's an issue but how many countries can show proof that the economy is slow because of underpopulation? Worst case scenario they open their borders for skilled immigrants.

The biggest problem facing world right now is that intelligent people are having less number of children, while those with low IQ are having plenty of them. And in the long-run, this doesn't bode well for the human race. Look at the following maps:

IQ level by country:

Fertility rate by country:

It is very clear that overall IQ level of human race is going down, and that too at a rapid pace. In the long run, this is not going to bring anything positive for us. There will be more conflict and warfare, and less innovations and inventions.

I'm curious if North Korea is really included as one of the world's highest IQ populations. I'm also surprised that China is on the same IQ level as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore.

Anyways, the point really makes sense. Here in my country, people who live in the slums are just too quick to have children. I remember when I was renting near a slum during my college days so I am familiar with some people there. In rural areas, farm workers and other poor people are also the ones with numerous children compared to their employers.

I also quite understand why the IQ of people in my country is still below average. And this is none other than because the level of infrastructure and education development in my country is not evenly distributed and as we know, existing development and education is only focused on one area, namely urban areas. And what's more, the condition of the existing community has not received real social prosperity and there are still many people living below the poverty level, so this makes them pessimistic.

But in my opinion having many children is not a problem because this is fate. The problem is when they have many children but they are unable to increase their business and change their thinking on how to increase their income.

inthelongrun

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 27, 2023, 01:51:47 AM

Quote from: Alpha Marine on September 26, 2023, 04:45:16 PM

A lot of people do not want kids not because they don't like kids, but because they feel they're not financially ready to have kids and they are not wrong.
Having kids when you can't take care of them is not a good thing to do, so instead of the Government rewarding families that give birth to children, they should find ways to create opportunities for the people, especially young people.

I believe underpopulation is not as big an issue as they make it seem. Don't get me wrong, I know it's an issue but how many countries can show proof that the economy is slow because of underpopulation? Worst case scenario they open their borders for skilled immigrants.

The biggest problem facing world right now is that intelligent people are having less number of children, while those with low IQ are having plenty of them. And in the long-run, this doesn't bode well for the human race. Look at the following maps:

IQ level by country:

Fertility rate by country:

It is very clear that overall IQ level of human race is going down, and that too at a rapid pace. In the long run, this is not going to bring anything positive for us. There will be more conflict and warfare, and less innovations and inventions.

I'm curious if North Korea is really included as one of the world's highest IQ populations. I'm also surprised that China is on the same IQ level as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore.

Anyways, the point really makes sense. Here in my country, people who live in the slums are just too quick to have children. I remember when I was renting near a slum during my college days so I am familiar with some people there. In rural areas, farm workers and other poor people are also the ones with numerous children compared to their employers.

MarjorieZimmermanGinger

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Quote from: Fiatless on July 19, 2023, 06:06:08 AM

A close look at this situation shows that many of these overpopulated nations mostly in Africa and Asia are underdeveloped. While these underpopulated nations are economically buoyant. I think the reason for the poverty of these developing nations is not the population but bad governance and the inability to maximize and distribute available resources equally. We cannot deny the fact that these overpopulated nations are economically important to these developed nations in terms of human resources. And they contribute immensely to the development of these first-world nations in terms of cheap labour.

Mismanagement is also a problem, causing welfare to fall far short of what society expects. A country that has abundant natural products should be able to get out of the poverty line and be able to make people live at a much more prosperous and sufficient level, especially if human resources are not properly trained to process the natural products they have themselves. In the end they look for workers from outside to do what the people in the country should be able to do and the local people actually become unemployed.

They can take workers from outside if the number of workers in their own country has decreased because there are many people who bet their luck in other countries to make money now. I think this problem will never become a burden for these countries because they can take shortcuts to overcome the decreasing number of workers in their countries.

CarnagexD

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Quote from: Alpha Marine on September 26, 2023, 04:45:16 PM

Quote from: palle11 on August 01, 2023, 03:22:33 PM

Under population is not very good and that is what will make a country open their borders for foreigners out of need for labour force. I think there is a solution to this through government policy by giving rewards to couples who increase the numbers of children they give birth to depending on the number stipulated by government. Another point is to discourage abortion because people do that as final resort when they have no other option.

I believe underpopulation is not as big an issue as they make it seem. Don't get me wrong, I know it's an issue but how many countries can show proof that the economy is slow because of underpopulation? Worst case scenario they open their borders for skilled immigrants.

Germany for example. They faced declining birth rate and aging population that's why their government implemented policies to encourage family growth and attract immigrants to address their problems. Non-Europians get to work and live in Germany, that makes them easier to get employed. I doubt it is a not a big issue.
Germany BLUE CARD

Quote from: dothebeats on September 26, 2023, 07:08:15 AM

Quote from: Dzwaafu11 on September 26, 2023, 01:22:21 AM

Quote from: Fiatless on July 19, 2023, 06:06:08 AM

How do you think these developed nations will fill vacancies in their nations and get cheap labor if the population of these developing nations is reduced?

Even the most populated countries like China, India, and others have already developed, and they are still creating other things that will make their citizens enjoy their way of leaving. To me, overpopulation cannot affect the development of a country if the government in such a country is doing well, but in a situation where the government is corrupt, they don’t care about their citizens.

You have a good point here regarding job opportunities. Big population means bigger manpower for a country. However, if the government of that country fails to see that and makes the best out of it then it is possible for them to only see overpopulation as a negative thing.

Yeah. Huge population does not guarantee an economic success either. Governments need to tailor their policies to their unique economic status and social and cultural circumstances. They have to maximize and give importance to the country's natural resources like oil, minerals, farming, even manpower. Maybe each country may copy what other countries do but what works for one country might not work for another. In the end, economic strength or weakness lies beyond the population only.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Alpha Marine on September 26, 2023, 04:45:16 PM

A lot of people do not want kids not because they don't like kids, but because they feel they're not financially ready to have kids and they are not wrong.
Having kids when you can't take care of them is not a good thing to do, so instead of the Government rewarding families that give birth to children, they should find ways to create opportunities for the people, especially young people.

I believe underpopulation is not as big an issue as they make it seem. Don't get me wrong, I know it's an issue but how many countries can show proof that the economy is slow because of underpopulation? Worst case scenario they open their borders for skilled immigrants.

The biggest problem facing world right now is that intelligent people are having less number of children, while those with low IQ are having plenty of them. And in the long-run, this doesn't bode well for the human race. Look at the following maps:

IQ level by country:

Fertility rate by country:

It is very clear that overall IQ level of human race is going down, and that too at a rapid pace. In the long run, this is not going to bring anything positive for us. There will be more conflict and warfare, and less innovations and inventions.

Alpha Marine

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Quote from: palle11 on August 01, 2023, 03:22:33 PM

Under population is not very good and that is what will make a country open their borders for foreigners out of need for labour force. I think there is a solution to this through government policy by giving rewards to couples who increase the numbers of children they give birth to depending on the number stipulated by government. Another point is to discourage abortion because people do that as final resort when they have no other option.

A lot of people do not want kids not because they don't like kids, but because they feel they're not financially ready to have kids and they are not wrong.
Having kids when you can't take care of them is not a good thing to do, so instead of the Government rewarding families that give birth to children, they should find ways to create opportunities for the people, especially young people.

I believe underpopulation is not as big an issue as they make it seem. Don't get me wrong, I know it's an issue but how many countries can show proof that the economy is slow because of underpopulation? Worst case scenario they open their borders for skilled immigrants.

dothebeats

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Quote from: Dzwaafu11 on September 26, 2023, 01:22:21 AM

Quote from: Fiatless on July 19, 2023, 06:06:08 AM

How do you think these developed nations will fill vacancies in their nations and get cheap labor if the population of these developing nations is reduced?

Even the most populated countries like China, India, and others have already developed, and they are still creating other things that will make their citizens enjoy their way of leaving. To me, overpopulation cannot affect the development of a country if the government in such a country is doing well, but in a situation where the government is corrupt, they don’t care about their citizens.

You can see that even if there are resources available, they don’t care to make use of these resources in such a way that they create job opportunities for the citizens, and I believe job opportunities are one of the ways that we can say a country is developing when everybody is working. And that is what the Chinese government is still doing. With their very large population, are we going to say they did not develop? Nah, mate, so if a government uses available resources in a nation to create other ways of earning, there will be no poverty.

You have a good point here regarding job opportunities. Big population means bigger manpower for a country. However, if the government of that country fails to see that and makes the best out of it then it is possible for them to only see overpopulation as a negative thing. Take this country I live in for example, there are a lot of people and yet we lack workers due to individuals choosing to move overseas for better job opportunities that offers higher salary, compensation, and benefits. If these workers were able to find that here in the country then we wouldn't be lacking educators, doctors, and other professionals. This example shows just how a lot of country's government fail to see how they could use overpopulation to their advantage if they can only focus on the needs of their people.

Dzwaafu11

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Quote from: Fiatless on July 19, 2023, 06:06:08 AM

How do you think these developed nations will fill vacancies in their nations and get cheap labor if the population of these developing nations is reduced?

Even the most populated countries like China, India, and others have already developed, and they are still creating other things that will make their citizens enjoy their way of leaving. To me, overpopulation cannot affect the development of a country if the government in such a country is doing well, but in a situation where the government is corrupt, they don’t care about their citizens.

You can see that even if there are resources available, they don’t care to make use of these resources in such a way that they create job opportunities for the citizens, and I believe job opportunities are one of the ways that we can say a country is developing when everybody is working. And that is what the Chinese government is still doing. With their very large population, are we going to say they did not develop? Nah, mate, so if a government uses available resources in a nation to create other ways of earning, there will be no poverty.

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Quote from: dothebeats on September 25, 2023, 06:33:33 AM

Quote from: summonerrk on September 24, 2023, 11:53:41 PM

Quote from: Fiatless on July 19, 2023, 06:06:08 AM

How do you think these developed nations will fill vacancies in their nations and get cheap labor if the population of these developing nations is reduced?

In countries with poor economies, there are problems with overpopulation, this is not the problem. The problem is a corrupt government that does not solve this problem well. Of course, as China, it is possible to strictly limit the number of children in the family, but why? It is better to create conditions under which all this large number of citizens will be involved in the economy, and this can give a strong jump in the economic vector of the country. It's just that the governments of such countries need to provide affordable schools and educational institutions, and then jobs.

I agree with you regarding this, of course, the government has a role in this--the problem of overpopulation and its effects. However, we should not be just focusing there, we cannot deny the fact that the people are also responsible. While the government lacks the support it should be giving to the people, the people are just being too reliant on the government. Both parties have responsibilities to take in order for the problem of overpopulation to be dealt with. No matter how many public schools that provide free education and job fares there are, if the people refuse to make a move then it will be all for nothing. The support should indeed come from the government, as that is the responsibility they have for the people they are governing, but the action of change should also come from the people themselves because if they do not choose to help themselves and continue with their lifestyle of producing kids without knowing what they will do in order to provide the needs of these kids in the future and just hold on to what the government should be doing, nothing will change.

In this case, to solve the problem of overpopulation, the citizens of the country themselves need motivation to change their situation. I mean the motivation to study in schools, institutes, and then the desire to work well, and not to serve time in the workplace. In general, that quality is called engagement. Parents should also impose it on their children, creating strong motivation and, of course, qualities such as good upbringing and kindness. Then the changes will be complete.

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Quote from: summonerrk on September 24, 2023, 11:53:41 PM

In countries with poor economies, there are problems with overpopulation, this is not the problem. The problem is a corrupt government that does not solve this problem well. Of course, as China, it is possible to strictly limit the number of children in the family, but why? It is better to create conditions under which all this large number of citizens will be involved in the economy, and this can give a strong jump in the economic vector of the country. It's just that the governments of such countries need to provide affordable schools and educational institutions, and then jobs.

While the government plays a pivotal role in the nation, citizens must also equip themselves to fill vacant job positions. At times, citizens may desire excessive freedom and autonomy, not realizing that job opportunities may remain unfilled for reasons that lack rationality.

We cannot perpetually rely on the government to support our entire lives. Governments will invariably prioritize their own interests, which is why corruption occurs. We, too, must consider our individual livelihoods and avoid placing excessively high expectations on the government.

Lantind

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Quote from: dothebeats on September 25, 2023, 06:33:33 AM

I agree with you regarding this, of course, the government has a role in this--the problem of overpopulation and its effects. However, we should not be just focusing there, we cannot deny the fact that the people are also responsible. While the government lacks the support it should be giving to the people, the people are just being too reliant on the government. Both parties have responsibilities to take in order for the problem of overpopulation to be dealt with. No matter how many public schools that provide free education and job fares there are, if the people refuse to make a move then it will be all for nothing. The support should indeed come from the government, as that is the responsibility they have for the people they are governing, but the action of change should also come from the people themselves because if they do not choose to help themselves and continue with their lifestyle of producing kids without knowing what they will do in order to provide the needs of these kids in the future and just hold on to what the government should be doing, nothing will change.

You are right that both government and society have an important role in both of these matters. I think that every place has environmental conditions that are different from other places, so the impact of overpopulation will be different from one place to another. If a place has a good government system, it will certainly be able to provide jobs for the people so that they get a decent income and can meet their needs, but if the government system is not good then they don't think about the impact of overpopulation on the environment.

I really agree with you that the government must provide support to its people in terms of improving the welfare of the people they lead, and the people must be more independent if the government does not care about the impact of excess population on their environment.

dothebeats

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Quote from: summonerrk on September 24, 2023, 11:53:41 PM

Quote from: Fiatless on July 19, 2023, 06:06:08 AM

How do you think these developed nations will fill vacancies in their nations and get cheap labor if the population of these developing nations is reduced?

In countries with poor economies, there are problems with overpopulation, this is not the problem. The problem is a corrupt government that does not solve this problem well. Of course, as China, it is possible to strictly limit the number of children in the family, but why? It is better to create conditions under which all this large number of citizens will be involved in the economy, and this can give a strong jump in the economic vector of the country. It's just that the governments of such countries need to provide affordable schools and educational institutions, and then jobs.

I agree with you regarding this, of course, the government has a role in this--the problem of overpopulation and its effects. However, we should not be just focusing there, we cannot deny the fact that the people are also responsible. While the government lacks the support it should be giving to the people, the people are just being too reliant on the government. Both parties have responsibilities to take in order for the problem of overpopulation to be dealt with. No matter how many public schools that provide free education and job fares there are, if the people refuse to make a move then it will be all for nothing. The support should indeed come from the government, as that is the responsibility they have for the people they are governing, but the action of change should also come from the people themselves because if they do not choose to help themselves and continue with their lifestyle of producing kids without knowing what they will do in order to provide the needs of these kids in the future and just hold on to what the government should be doing, nothing will change.

summonerrk

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Quote from: Fiatless on July 19, 2023, 06:06:08 AM

How do you think these developed nations will fill vacancies in their nations and get cheap labor if the population of these developing nations is reduced?

In countries with poor economies, there are problems with overpopulation, this is not the problem. The problem is a corrupt government that does not solve this problem well. Of course, as China, it is possible to strictly limit the number of children in the family, but why? It is better to create conditions under which all this large number of citizens will be involved in the economy, and this can give a strong jump in the economic vector of the country. It's just that the governments of such countries need to provide affordable schools and educational institutions, and then jobs.

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Quote from: |MINER| on September 24, 2023, 09:19:11 AM

According to me population does not affect economy much. A country's development prospects depend on its system of governance. The more industrious and creative the nation is, the more advanced the nation is. A country can use more population as a tool for development. China is a country with a large population. So why is China underdeveloped? China has reached the pinnacle of development by harnessing the power of the people. If the country's management system is correct, the country is bound to develop. Some country is trying to reduce its population. Some country is trying to increase its population . Instead of doing this, the head of state should use the manpower.

Population levels are often linked to the problem of a country's economic growth. And this is indeed true. Because population levels sometimes also affect the country's economy itself. It's just where the economy is moving. In a good direction or in a bad direction. So it all depends on how the government and society build the nation itself. If the large population is utilized well then it can indeed be a good economic force. Like a country will not experience a labor crisis. Because human resources are sufficient. But if the government cannot balance the population and the number of job opportunities or job vacancies then this will also create a lot of unemployment and there will be an imbalance in the economy of society in that country. so this problem is actually quite a dilemma.

But several developed countries are currently struggling to face the population crisis in their countries. For example, the latest news is that Singapore is also facing a baby crisis. because married couples in Singapore rarely seem to decide to have children in the near future after marriage. This has an impact on the baby crisis in the country.
(Sourch: https://health.detik.com/berita-detikhealth/d-6946870/singapura-krisis-bayi-ini-alasan-subsidi-tak-ngefek-bikin-warga-mau-punya-anak)

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Quote from: DrBeer on September 20, 2023, 01:39:57 PM

The answer is simple: everything needs a balance !
A large population is bad. A small population is bad. A poor population is bad. Uneducated population - bad. A spoiled population is bad. But this issue is not just on the government's side. The population itself should also understand about children - who and how many they raise ! Who it will be - educated, intelligent, with prospects ... Or poor, uneducated, with minimal interests in life....

I think the poor population needs balancing and I don't think it's always bad, it's just that they need a helping hand to get some opportunities to improve their quality of life and standard of living.

That's right, it's definitely a shared responsibility and it's not just the government that is used as an excuse if it doesn't work, but also the smallest elements starting from the family and parents also play a role in raising and ensuring their growth and development and that requires good planning.

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According to me population does not affect economy much. A country's development prospects depend on its system of governance. The more industrious and creative the nation is, the more advanced the nation is. A country can use more population as a tool for development. China is a country with a large population. So why is China underdeveloped? China has reached the pinnacle of development by harnessing the power of the people. If the country's management system is correct, the country is bound to develop. Some country is trying to reduce its population. Some country is trying to increase its population . Instead of doing this, the head of state should use the manpower.

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The answer is simple: everything needs a balance !
A large population is bad. A small population is bad. A poor population is bad. Uneducated population - bad. A spoiled population is bad. But this issue is not just on the government's side. The population itself should also understand about children - who and how many they raise ! Who it will be - educated, intelligent, with prospects ... Or poor, uneducated, with minimal interests in life....

Topic: Population: Economic strength or weakness - page 5. (Read 1795 times)