Topic: [POT]PotCoin - Banking for the Legal Cannabis Industry ✦ ✦ ✦Grow With Us ✦ ✦ ✦ - page 120. (Read 920105 times)

@nyc2afuse

Of course I am in it for the profit, anyone who says they aren't are lying to everyone or themselves.
I won't give you the honor of doing a play by play on all of the points you think your making, instead I will sum things up with this.

It is clear that you have no idea how markets function, its also clear that you have no idea how strong of a force inflation is and that it can't be beaten. Inflation is like the weather, when its storming and replenishing water sources its a force for good, when its a hurricane or tornado destroying houses and infrastructure its a force for the dark side.

As I said in my other posts, I see things from a grander time scale. Instead of focusing on increasing adoption for 1 specific coin whether its POS/POW/Hybrid/whatever, the smarter move is to push adoption for all of crypto and make sure that your in position to benefit from the rising tide. I am applying this same methodology to open assets, thats why I launched coloredcoin.io. This new site we will be launching will help to provide education and get people started in POS. I really feel for you if you can't see the bigger picture and just want to make a quick buck with POT and move on to the next coin. If you have been holding the same coins for the past year or so you must be really under water, me not so much because I looked at the inflation rate when first investigating this coin and decided to hold off for awhile, then I saw the roadmap to POSv and thought it was worth it to start acquiring it slowly and let dollar cost averaging do its thing.

As for the merchants. Are you aware that POTcoin has an 8 hour maturity period? If the merchants wallet is open and unlocked to stake and they receive a payment the minute they open up that tx will be eligible to stake at about closing time for most businesses, if they are open later, the later txs won't be staking, etc. You also didn't understand or ignored my point about the encrypted and locked wallet, whether your running a business or its on your home pc, you should have your wallet encrypted and locked needing a password to move funds, especially if you have other people around. How many people out of say 10 at a business have full access to the till? Not many if the owner is smart, the fewer hands in the till the less chance of someone skimming or outright stealing funds. Its clear that this is a redherring talking point to argue about that means nothing because those arguing it are missing a decent chunk of info.

In short, it is definitely time for this convo to be over. Why do I keep trying to play chess with people who can't even handle candy land is beyond me, I guess I am just a glutton for punishment. It is clear that your just looking to fight and argue and instead of discussing things like someone who has experience and knowledge your acting like someone who read Rich Dad, Poor Dad and is now an expert at everything financial, that or stop watching Suze Orman she's dumb as a box of rocks.

Yeah, you're right  .  I'll go ahead and retract that statement.

-Fuse

No one is worse / more hypocritical than that guy spewing unsubstantiated nonsense directed at CANN.

well I'm still buying in the 350's, thanks guys!

It's now a proof of stake coin.  It wasn't before.  I have holdings in this coin because I believed in this coin when it came out.  I've questioned that belief a lot over the last year.  And yes, staking is what moves the chain... but you don't need a huge user base to keep the chain moving.

OK... so lets take your merchant safe drop example into consideration.  You're still talking about a merchant moving coins out and doing something with it.  They aren't just going to leave it sitting in a hot wallet that they use for transactions.  They are going to move the coins out into something more liquid and usable so they don't feel like they're left holding the bag.  Additionally, the typical merchant who doesn't understand crypto and is already skeptical about accepting it isn't going to jump through hoops to make long term interest.  I'm not sure why you think making interest from random $10 sales is going to keep that merchant from liquidating that POT immediately.  Again this goes back to the fundamental philosophies of crypto- the good of the coin, or their own good.


And you're arguing my point exactly right here.  You are arguing with everyone over market dynamics, but you're saying the exact same things we're saying.


As far as what I'm doing... what does it matter?  For all you care, I'm just an internet troll.  If you want the real answer, I'm here because I believed at one time that POT was a very great idea.  Over the last year though, I've questioned that belief because of the management and marketing of the coin.  There's the reddit-forced dev decisions too.  However, I've been here since page 14 when I started a pool to help support the blockchain.  I went well out of pocket on POT giving it away to people to distribute to the community.  I even bought $2000 worth of GPU mining gear(before the ASICs) to mine the coin and, again, support the chain.  I'm not sure if you were following elsewhere, but I'm not seeing you in this thread until the POSv switch, which makes me think you're just a whale looking for a buck.  You run through this thread acting like your the king of POT.  Frankly, mate, you need to calm down and stop jumping down everyone's throat.


Actually, I could care less what you're doing here.  And the fact that your true interest is actually in the POSv interest is pretty clear now.  You say it yourself... virtually every other POS coin.  So you're an interest guy.  I get it mate, you want to make a buck.

Weren't you stepping away from this thread anyway?  You've stated your opinions and made your points.  I really didn't have anything against you before.  I thought you were really passionate about POT, but now I'm really just starting to think you're trying to fill the vacuum of conversation left by the loss of community.  There's no point in arguing any of this anymore.  If you want to argue with me, take it to PM.  At this point you're just as bad as the CANN guy.

-Fuse

New Supply is partially irrelevant NOW that we have moved to POSv and the inflation rate is 5-6%, the Supply in circulation is worth taking into account, there is currently 25% of the entire supply actively staking, this means that 25% is not on the exchanges to be used to manipulate the price, we have another 25% in addresses that hasn't moved in at least 6 months, I did the math yesterday with the help of the rich list and a spreadsheet. This means that we have 50% of the coins either actively staking or in cold storage, this leaves us with 106ish million coins that are likely to be available to absorb new btc or usd coming into the market, thats 424btc or $97.5k at the current rate. IMO everything is lined up for this coin to start climbing if we can get a few things handled. First for POT to be the weed coin it needs a coinbase or circle like site that lets people get in and out at will, this would also make it easier to get merchants on board if they could cashout to usd if they needed to or at least until the loop is closed and suppliers are on board. This site would also give the average joe/jane a way to buy 10$ worth of potcoin to test the waters and get into the POS coins. At POTs current exchange rate you could easily get people to put in what they would spend on a soda or a pack of cigarettes and the # of coins they would get for that price would be astronomical compared to BTC or the top POS coins.


No one is getting worked up about anything, I am simply flabbergasted that someone who seems to have a decent base of knowledge to pull from would try and make the point that inflation and supply/demand are irrelevant and not worth considering. I look more at the longer term than the day2day or minute2minute. I tried day trading FX and stocks and the constant entry and exit just isn't my style, I prefer to look at whats going to happen over 3-5 or 5-10 years this way I have a greater chance at being right and more importantly, profitable.
I was under the impression that there were at least a few real stores and websites that took potcoin as a payment method.  I am also wondering what YOU are doing to help grow POT if your intent is to help? Or are you here just for the conversation and to tell people what needs done?

Wondering what I am doing? I and a business partner are getting ready to launch a website that will let people buy small amounts of POT and virtually every other POS coin with multiple payment methods, mainly PP for now the others are still being worked out. This site will also host DL links for "quick start" packs for as many POS coins as I can handle, bootstrap included to get people up and running with the most haste.

This makes NO Fing sense. First your suggesting that people NOT encrypt and lock their wallet, 2nd, it would make it less likely that people would stake and support the network.
The better option is to have a manual "stop staking" check box in settings or in one of the drop down menus, I have to be blunt here, I thought I read some stupid shit on another forum this morning but this takes the cake. Remember kids, this is a Proof of STAKE coin, staked coins is how new blocks are minted to carry the txs into the chain, without coins actively staking the network doesn't move and the coin is worthless.

Research has shown that getting people to opt out of something has more people "opting in" by default than expecting people to "opt in" knowingly.
There has been a push in many states to get the "opt in" as an organ donor reversed to an opt out, if its against your personal beliefs and morals, opt out, but for everyone else who doesn't think about it, it would save many many more lives than expecting people to "opt in".

In short, We don't need a checkbox for opt in or out of staking, all you have to do is tell the merchant to LOCK their wallet and leave it locked. I am also amazed that anyone here would think that a merchant would need to access any POT coins taken in right at the time of sale, apparently you have never run a business that takes in funds for purchases of goods or services, most if not all high volume stores use a safe, some use whats called a drop safe where only 1 or 2 people have access to it, cash thats over the limit for the stores comfort level goes into the safe and it gets counted and dealt with at the end of the day, its not needed during business hours. 

I totally agree with you. We need to be placed 1st in the priority que.

This would be a pretty decent approach to solving that problem.  It's a lot better than telling them they need to set a reserve balance in a conf file somewhere buried in their file system.

If they want to stake they can.  They just need to check a checkbox to do it.

-Fuse

to all stake coin devs ... you should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake ... i am almost willing to dump a coin completely if the devs are unable to code in this feature ...

Perhaps we should make the default on an unlocked POS wallet to not stake? We could make it so that in order to stake you have to enable it in addition to unlocking for staking.

Here is a clear use case:
http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/22/green-bits-launches-point-of-sale-service-for-cannabis-shops/


I'm surprised there is no PotCoin store yet. There was so much popularity around PotCoin yet no one is interested in starting a business that grows marijuana, sells marijuana exclusively for PotCoin.

Other than snoop dogg, PotCoin is probably the biggest brand. It could become the budweiser of pot.



We must all be too high to figure out all the rules to grow and sell marijuana.

At this point supply is irrelevant mate.  There is no clear use for POT right now aside from a few niche merchants and trading.  POT is just a speculation coin atm.  This is the same argument had months ago with the previous devs/community.  Create the "demand" and then we can talk about supply/inflation issues.

I agree that traditional market dynamics will play out over the long term.  But there has to be long term... there still isn't even a short term.  So getting all worked up about the finite details of the POT economic system at this point in time is kind of silly, mate.

-Fuse

And this is why I don't converse much on here or reddit.

The simple fact that 2 people here think that supply is irrelevant and demand is everything while also saying that supply/demand doesn't apply to crypto is astounding. It highlights a clear lack of knowledge and grasp of market dynamics that control stocks/bonds and even entire economies, its the not the only factor to analyze and account for but it and its cousin inflation are the 2 major factors in what any market will do over the long term.

If we want to get back to people asking questions about how POS works, great, but I am bowing out of this ridiculous conversation before I have an aneurysm from the insanity.

Agree 100% with this. The talk about supply and demand is meaningless right now. There is no demand, the only people buying the coin are market speculators.

PotCoin was trying to do this:
http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/22/green-bits-launches-point-of-sale-service-for-cannabis-shops/

The idea won 2nd place at tech diruptor SF 2015

The whole change was because of supply and demand.  That was the entire argument, and the driving force behind this coin's midlife failure(to date).  They believed too many coins were being created, and that's why the price was down.  They didn't address the fact that they had no demand.  So they reduced supply by accelerating halving.  Then they realized that was a stupid idea when the price went nowhere, and they went silent.  I'll say it now like I said then.  Whether you have a million coins or a billion, if you don't have a use for it, it's going nowhere.  IMO, demand is relevant, supply isn't.  In the end you're just trading x units for y goods.  No one cares if that's 10, 100, 1000, or 10,000 units, as long as they can buy something with it.


I haven't followed either, so I wouldn't know about their dynamics.  Again though, inflation, supply, etc... it's all irrelevant without demand.  And I know we're pretty much arguing the same thing here, but I'm still in the mindset that you could probably make the max supply infinite and it wouldn't matter.  25k POT then is still worth 25k POT now.


We're on the same page on this.  Reading a chart is reading a chart.  A P&D is as clear to see as the nose on my face.  But people come around all the time saying their going to apply real world trading algorithms to daily trading.  And then a dev goes silent for two months.  Or a whale decides he's got 10BTC he wants to spend on something silly.  Crypto is too dynamic to predict.  The only true strategy to winning here is to play the P&Ds or HODL legitimate coins.


This is the main point I want to challenge.  Merchants aren't going to leave the coins in their wallets.  You're talking a decade down the road when it's hopefully mainstream and the economy is full circle.  Right now, merchants, with no real adoption, are going to take POT and immediately turn it into BTC.  With the history of the coin, would you seriously risk not cashing out when you're trying to maintain a balanced business ledger?  With POS, and POW too, a single person(with confirmation nodes) could keep the chain running.  I kept KDC running on POW for a few months by myself.  This becomes more of a debate on fundamental crypto philosophy- support the chain or support yourself.  Merchants will most likely chose the later.


This is the most on-point comment and question yet.  Merchants will want to move the coins, not leave them sitting.

-Fuse

What proof do you have that wallets with no spent coins are lost? other than conjecture? Cold storage is not the same as lost. Lots of people have cold storage. Its called a bank account. Also Potcoin is POSv not POS. The V stands for velocity and was designed to encourage spending, not holding. More info here: http://agroff.github.io/posv/


In the event of a fork, you can stake coins on both chains. You "vote" for both sides of the fork. That's how POS systems achieve consensus. Each stake is a "vote" for the correct chain. You could in theory stake coins on both branches during a fork. More info here: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/25743/what-are-the-downsides-of-proof-of-stake (Unfortunately I don't have a better link for this one, its only really been discussed in a few forums. There isn't a nice breakdown but its pretty self explanatory)


I have coins that haven't moved in over a year. Believe me if the price spikes people will notice, and if they forgot their coins they will certainly remember them if the price goes up. I'm just saying you shouldn't assume such a large amount of coins are forgotten or lost. How many people just forget about their money?


Take the mining away and the only way to get coins is to buy them with something else, and from somebody else. Its a small barrier for new entry into the system because a new user now has to buy his coins from the holder who is able to replace his sold coins by staking. The large holders stake their coins and make a larger amount than anybody else, simply because they had more to start with. This one I'll admit I'm not sure about, but IMO in this scenario where new users can only buy from current holders that should raise the price, assuming there are new users coming in. But if new users stop coming in, the price will stall, and my guess is that people over time will sell, right back to large holders. I think that's where we are now, market stalled because there is no growth, and a small group of people continuing to collect coins.


I heard both of your responses. The electricity problem fonzerellie mentioned I agree with, see my previous. But over time electricity is continuing to get cheaper and mining is getting more efficient. I don't think in the end it will be a big deal.

Yes its easier to get people to support a coin that earns them interest, but at the end of the day they want a system that works and doesn't cost them much (that doesn't just mean fees. Lost time is lost business too). Which brings me to this...you still have not answered my question, so third time I'm asking:

What do you say to people (specifically merchants) who want to be able to move their coins but can't do it because they're staking? That has always been overlooked in POS systems. Sure its great you get interest but if you actually want to use the currency? no interest for you. Or worse, they do stake the coins and then can't use them when they need them. That will frustrate people into not using this coin. Not everybody, but some. Usability should be more important than gaining interest.

Your knowingly spamming this and other threads and your putting the onus on everyone else to ignore you if they don't like it.
Stop spamming this info. Do what I have suggested, start a fresh thread here or on reddit and make a simple and respectful request for people to join in.

If I hit you with a hammer and say sorry after, does that mean hitting you was ok? What if I do it repeatedly even with you saying stop? I said sorry, so its all good? Right?

PS. Your posts keep getting flagged and deleted, all this is doing is hurting your cause.

Will someone please permaban @researchyourcoin.