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Topic: Pre-order Bitcoin Magazine - Quality control, final revisions on proofs - page 44. (Read 93728 times)

legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
Yes it will be pirated with and without DRM, but that will not prevent the Magazine for being successful.

That to me smells of speculation. If it were even remotely true, people wouldn't be using DRM in the first place.
It absolutely WILL be pirated. And there is nothing that can be done about that. Full stop.

I am actually quite anti-piracy and all for authors getting fair remuneration for their work.  I am just stating a reality.

Well we want to represent our readers just as much as we want to represent Bitcoin itself. I am weighing all the consequences and doing more research to solutions. If it's a question of "when not if" for piracy, then it's a question of "when not if" we will give it out for free. I have faith our team will always make the right decisions on these issues. I really appreciate everyone stepping up and speaking out. We need it!
I like where you're going with that.



For fun, I posted the cover on facebook, and asked people this:  "If you saw this cover of a magazine, would you be intrigued and want to look at it more closely, or just pass over it like any other magazine?"

The first comment I received was from my cousin.  For reference, she crochets and sells on etsy for extra money.  Not really the technical/computer/political type.  But, she said this:

"Before reading your comment, I read all the words on the cover that I could because I was intrigued... Does that help?"

Mission accomplished then Matthew, mission accomplished.

EDIT:  Another couple of responses...

From a different cousin's husband (farmer dude):  "now yes, 2 months ago I would have dismissed it but too many people like newt...."

From a techie friend:  "My 2 cents: This cover definitely scanned to me as "any other magazine". Having no connection to the publication, I have no reason to look at it beyond my usual "passing glance to check for any features or headlines with keywords I'm interested in". I'm also more inclined in this *specific* case to look past it and walk away because of a cover picture featuring a random Anon in a Guy Fawkes mask. It's a sight I've come to associate more with annoyingly disgruntled teens being idiots rather than any meaningful protest or political movements. It sets me up for an initial reaction along the lines of "Ugh, not more of this" before I even read a single word of the text on the page."
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


That was exactly what I was trying to get at: If you use DRM, you aren't the publisher anymore; you are the author. The DRM vendor wants to lock your readers into their proprietary platform. Of course they don't want you releasing a superior product at the same time!


I didn't see the bigger picture. I do now. There is no way we are taking a part of that nonsense. If we make the decision to go mainstream using the well-built assets of major companies like Amazon, Apple, Google, etc, we'll make a legally-different version for each.

I would suggest one version of the magazine and I would not paint all the mainstream stores with the same brush. If they do not require exclusive digital rights (I do not believe that Android Market and possibly iTunes do, but check the rules first) then there is no reason to avoid those channels as long as a DRM free version is also available to those paid subscribers that desire it.

Now for my question. If I purchase the print and digital bundle, first issue or one year subscription, does that include a DRM free .pdf digital file for each the issues I purchased within 60 days of the publication of each issue?
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
Yes it will be pirated with and without DRM, but that will not prevent the Magazine for being successful.

That to me smells of speculation. If it were even remotely true, people wouldn't be using DRM in the first place.
It absolutely WILL be pirated. And there is nothing that can be done about that. Full stop.

I am actually quite anti-piracy and all for authors getting fair remuneration for their work.  I am just stating a reality.

Well we want to represent our readers just as much as we want to represent Bitcoin itself. I am weighing all the consequences and doing more research to solutions. If it's a question of "when not if" for piracy, then it's a question of "when not if" we will give it out for free. I have faith our team will always make the right decisions on these issues. I really appreciate everyone stepping up and speaking out. We need it!

full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 102
Bitcoin!
Yes it will be pirated with and without DRM, but that will not prevent the Magazine for being successful.

That to me smells of speculation. If it were even remotely true, people wouldn't be using DRM in the first place.
It absolutely WILL be pirated. And there is nothing that can be done about that. Full stop.

I am actually quite anti-piracy and all for authors getting fair remuneration for their work.  I am just stating a reality.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


That was exactly what I was trying to get at: If you use DRM, you aren't the publisher anymore; you are the author. The DRM vendor wants to lock your readers into their proprietary platform. Of course they don't want you releasing a superior product at the same time!


I didn't see the bigger picture. I do now. There is no way we are taking a part of that nonsense. If we make the decision to go mainstream using the well-built assets of major companies like Amazon, Apple, Google, etc, we'll make a legally-different version for each.

How To Remove DRM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKjeEYUXFHA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunebite
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


That was exactly what I was trying to get at: If you use DRM, you aren't the publisher anymore; you are the author. The DRM vendor wants to lock your readers into their proprietary platform. Of course they don't want you releasing a superior product at the same time!


I didn't see the bigger picture. I do now. There is no way we are taking a part of that nonsense. If we make the decision to go mainstream using the well-built assets of major companies like Amazon, Apple, Google, etc, we'll make a legally-different version for each.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1001
Let the chips fall where they may.

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


That was exactly what I was trying to get at: If you use DRM, you aren't the publisher anymore; you are the author. The DRM vendor wants to lock your readers into their proprietary platform. Of course they don't want you releasing a superior product at the same time!
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
I'm not going to ask for a refund or anything, I think the paper copy will be worth a lot more than 1BTC. I'd actually kind of like 2 copies, one to read and one to keep in good condition as a collectors item.

But.. it would have appropriate to mention I needed a $200+ phone to use my digital copy (aka code?). The phone I have cost like $9 and I don't think your code will run on it.

I'm not sure I understand completely. Wouldn't a phone capable of viewing a PDF also be able to view that PDF inside of an app? I think your argument is against mobile version of the issue in general?

I can buy it for bitcoins?  Tongue

http://bitcoinmagazine.net <-- Sure can!

I had a the new HTC smart phone with Verizon when it first came out, but gave it up because:

  • Unlimited data, until two weeks after the purchase, they changed policy
  • It had a defect
  • And most importantly, I couldn't get service out in the country where I deconstruct barns--most of the time only a couple miles from the nearest town where it did work

Quote

When will this be a stand alone website?

Also, idea: In every issue, have a section entitled "This Month in Crypto(graphic) History".
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
I'm not going to ask for a refund or anything, I think the paper copy will be worth a lot more than 1BTC. I'd actually kind of like 2 copies, one to read and one to keep in good condition as a collectors item.

But.. it would have appropriate to mention I needed a $200+ phone to use my digital copy (aka code?). The phone I have cost like $9 and I don't think your code will run on it.

I'm not sure I understand completely. Wouldn't a phone capable of viewing a PDF also be able to view that PDF inside of an app? I think your argument is against mobile version of the issue in general?


I can buy it for bitcoins?  Tongue

http://bitcoinmagazine.net <-- Sure can!
hero member
Activity: 535
Merit: 500
 I can buy it for bitcoins?  Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1016
Strength in numbers
Yeah, I paid. What do I get to own?

You get to own code that represents the magazine on your phone. I won't bother to stop you from copying it and sending it out-- that's not my job. My job is to find the best way to distribute it to the largest audience without bankrupting the initiative.


I'm not going to ask for a refund or anything, I think the paper copy will be worth a lot more than 1BTC. I'd actually kind of like 2 copies, one to read and one to keep in good condition as a collectors item.

But.. it would have appropriate to mention I needed a $200+ phone to use my digital copy (aka code?). The phone I have cost like $9 and I don't think your code will run on it.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
If you want to sell DRM encumbered content for example via Apple iTunes, then at least make sure that it is also available to GNU / Linux users who are using 100% Free Software at the same time and also make a DRM unencumbered copy of the content available to your paid subscribers at no additional cost within a reasonable period of time say one or two months.

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


UPDATE: Looks like we're moving for a Spanish version of the magazine as soon as Issue #2. If anyone has any recommendations for a cheap way to get this done, please contact me.


Quite independently of the DRM issue an exclusive right on a digital copy makes no sense at all. It is your magazine but, I would not give exclusive digital rights to anyone Apple, Amazon etc.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
If you want to sell DRM encumbered content for example via Apple iTunes, then at least make sure that it is also available to GNU / Linux users who are using 100% Free Software at the same time and also make a DRM unencumbered copy of the content available to your paid subscribers at no additional cost within a reasonable period of time say one or two months.

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


UPDATE: Looks like we're moving for a Spanish version of the magazine as soon as Issue #2. If anyone has any recommendations for a cheap way to get this done, please contact me.


El Compartimiento el Bitcoin

Quote
If anyone has any recommendations for a cheap way to get this done, please contact me.

I know of this guy in NYC who has a TV show...


Fixed.
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
If you want to sell DRM encumbered content for example via Apple iTunes, then at least make sure that it is also available to GNU / Linux users who are using 100% Free Software at the same time and also make a DRM unencumbered copy of the content available to your paid subscribers at no additional cost within a reasonable period of time say one or two months.

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


UPDATE: Looks like we're moving for a Spanish version of the magazine as soon as Issue #2. If anyone has any recommendations for a cheap way to get this done, please contact me.


http://duolingo.com/
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
If you want to sell DRM encumbered content for example via Apple iTunes, then at least make sure that it is also available to GNU / Linux users who are using 100% Free Software at the same time and also make a DRM unencumbered copy of the content available to your paid subscribers at no additional cost within a reasonable period of time say one or two months.

I'm looking into this right now. Last I checked, selling something on the Kindle for example required that no other digital copy be available. I need to see if simply offering different 'versions' of our magazine would suffice.


UPDATE: Looks like we're moving for a Spanish version of the magazine as soon as Issue #2. If anyone has any recommendations for a professional and cheap way to get this done, please contact me.
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
Yes it will be pirated with and without DRM, but that will not prevent the Magazine for being successful.

That to me smells of speculation. If it were even remotely true, people would't be using DRM in the first place.


On the other hand if I have to license specific propriety software and / or hardware from Microsoft, Apple, Amazon etc in order to be able to read it for a limited time, [...] than I am not.

We won't have a time limit. You bought what you bought. It's yours. Time limits used to be used as a way to help differ hosting costs, but when the file is a download to your mobile phone for example, why would we care?

The whole plan is not crystal clear yet to me either as I am rather new to this. I will tell you that we are planning for:

  • iTunes newsstand
  • Android
  • Kindle
  • BitcoinMagazine.net direct view

I haven't checked yet, but I have reason to believe none of those purchasing mediums would give you a timeline, and even if they did (like what, a whole year?) we would just give it to you again for free on request.

If that's not good enough, then we're arguing about free vs paid and we go back to my original statement that we simply haven't figured it out yet. We need to gauge interest, pay for printing+shipping, then we can see about making things better for everyone involved.

I really appreciate your passion and if you have any suggestions, I am more than willing to play Devil's Advocate.



To understand why DRM does not work one simply needs to look at the myths regarding DRM.

Myth 1: DRM Prevents Copyright Infringement

To debunk this myth one simply needs to visit ThePirateBay.org and look at those torrents that point to infringing content. In almost all cases the original content was released with some form of DRM. The torrent comments with typically have the crack of the DRM unless the DRM has already being stripped from the content. It even gets more interesting if the DRM is particularly restrictive and vile your content may make the top 100 most downloaded torrents on ThePirateBay. I saw this phenomenon a few years back with a game that had a particularly nasty form of DRM. By the way getting your content on the top 100 most downloaded torrents on ThePirateBay gives the publisher very valuable free exposure. So if the objective is to get free exposure by deliberately inducing copyright infringement of your work, then this is the one and only scenario where DRM actually makes sense.

Myth 2: Selling propriety digital content without DRM is equivalent to giving it away for free.

This is a very common myth that is used to sell the DRM snake oil. The best example of why this is wrong is the history of Microsoft. Between 1985 and 2000 Microsoft sold is software without DRM, yet this is the period of time when the Microsoft millions and billions were made.  So if Microsoft was giving their software for free where did the millions and billions come from. Since 2000 when Microsoft turned to the dark side and embraced DRM the stock has gone nowhere. The fortunes were made before the company embraced DRM no afterwards. In the 1980's and 1990's DRM consisted of among other things deliberately creating bad sectors on 5.25in floppy disks. It was called "copy protection" in those days and the term DRM was created for marketing reasons.

Myth 3: DRM content is permanent and not time limited.

This is a huge myth that actually leads to outright fraud. The trouble is that technological change makes the DRM content unreadable after only few years. I have digital files that are over 30 years old. They were originally created using IBM punch cards, yet are completely readable today on my brand new laptop. I also installed a 20 year old propriety Windows program on my brand new laptop from its original media, 5.25in floppies. It works fine only because the original media were not infected with DRM in the day by the publisher. I also have books that are over 300 years old. So please if you sell digital content with any form of DRM, and that includes Apple iTunes, Amazon Kindle etc., at least be honest with your customers and warn them it is not permanent.

Myth 4: DRM does not hurt legitimate paying customers.

The biggest harm to the customer comes down the road long after any potential harm to the publisher can occur. In many cases a customer will purchase a content license under the understanding it is permanent when in fact it is not for the reasons I stated above. In my opinion this is fraud pure and simple. Another harm to the customer is that in many cases DRM forces the customer use Windows over GNU / Linux. I do suspect that the proportion of GNU / Linux users among Bitcoin users is much higher than the general population.

Myth 5: DRM must work because companies use it

The reality is that the strongest proponents of DRM are those whose business models belong in the 19th Century, and not in the 20th or 21st Centuries. It was is nothing more to attempt to turn back the clock to the 1890's when content was placed on an Edison Cylinder or a Player Piano roll and distributed around the world by sailing ship. Lets us not forget that Universal Studios, a major proponent of DRM, went to court in an attempt to ban the VCR, and then Macrovision was developed as a way to infect VHS tapes with DRM. DRM is not new. It has been around, and failed for a long time.

Now for some suggestions:

1) Do not force your print subscribers to pay for a DRM infected digital copy by bundling both together. If you wish to provide them with with a digital copy then treat your customers with respect and provide them with a DRM free .pdf.

2) If you want to sell DRM encumbered content for example via Apple iTunes, then at least make sure that it is also available to GNU / Linux users who are using 100% Free Software at the same time and also make a DRM unencumbered copy of the content available to your paid subscribers at no additional cost within a reasonable period of time say one or two months.




legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not suggesting you give away the digital copy for free.

Oh! I'm sorry then. That's my own ignorance probably. So you mean charge people, but give it out as a PDF or something?
Exactly that.  You'll still get sales from people who feel morally obligated to compensate others for their work (as I do), but you won't alienate support from the crowd who "uses first, then compensates based on how much they liked it".  The pirates will pirate whether it is protected or not.
+100
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
p.s. the mere mention of DRM turns me off the entire project.
+100

If your company chooses to go that route, it proves you are more afraid of loss than confident in your abilities.  If I can read this for free on my linux desktop, as well as my barnes & noble nook without special software, I may do so.  And I may choose to compensate whoever provides it to me, whether it is you or a pirate.  Get over yourself, and quit hiding behind feeble locks a competent locksmith can open with a bobby pin.  If your shit is good, you will be rewarded beyond your imagination.  If not, best to fail spectacularly and move on.

Edit:
Digital costs you nothing to distribute other than a choice.  And it will drive physical sales by building your audience.

FYI This is the correct way to talk to me, although SgtSpike's explanation made me want to believe a bit more in the "community backing it". I'm not 100% clear on that at the moment but it will become more clear when we're breaking even.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not suggesting you give away the digital copy for free.

Oh! I'm sorry then. That's my own ignorance probably. So you mean charge people, but give it out as a PDF or something?
Exactly that.  You'll still get sales from people who feel morally obligated to compensate others for their work (as I do), but you won't alienate support from the crowd who "uses first, then compensates based on how much they liked it".  The pirates will pirate whether it is protected or not.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
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