Getting back on-topic, here's a graph of how much money the Venezuelan government has printed over the years.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tazuoa50olknl1s/money.jpeg?dl=0
Do remember that the government's only promise is to accept petro at the value of a barrel of oil's worth of bolívares (VEF), a currency that's experiencing hyperinflation thanks to... money printing! Oh, and at which rate? They set the rate themselves. The whitepaper says they'll use a formula with a discount rate of at least 10%, and no upper bound.
Topic: [PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela - page 67. (Read 28500 times)
February 26, 2018, 08:42:02 PM
February 26, 2018, 08:03:17 PM
Yes, I am Venezuelan and proud of it.
yes, so proud that your "opposition leaders" are asking for a military intervention to kill the venezuelan people.proud? you're just fucked in the head.
for less than that in U.S. you would be considered a traitor and putting in jail or killed.
alemacgo is already offtopic and he's flooding this thread with nonsense.
i'm not going to read CiA agents.
say hello to my "ignore list".
Is the Petro a Threat to the U.S. Dictatorship?
https://hackernoon.com/is-the-petro-a-threat-to-our-democracy-7367f04c7037
why? isn't it supposed to be a shit coin? why so worry about the Petro coin then? lmao.
https://www.dailyrounds.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/i-dont-know.jpg
February 26, 2018, 07:31:27 PM
Sorry i don't buy it. I was born in Argentina and have met many Venezuelans (and many economic crisis). I know what a dictatorship is (I was born in one) and Venezuela is obviously not one.
Not all dictatorships are the same, but if you think Venezuela is so fine and democratic, you should take a trip there. Talk to brown people if you want, run an informal poll and see how much people like Maduro.live a surrogate of the US culture.
We're speaking English in a site hosted in the US that spawned out of an invention that came from a man who published his research in English and found an American audience. You're using a computer that wouldn't exist without key US inventions. Wake up, dude, you are *also* living in a surrogate of US culture. You obviously also have enough disposable time and income to sit around and shill the petro on a forum, so you're doing quite well yourself, better than at least 87% of Venezuelans.I hope the Petro will work. You can hope it won't, your country and its people will suffer even more, so you can satisfy your hatred. You are free.
And I hope it won't, because I know my country and my people would suffer more if the petro raised capital for Maduro's regime. But you also are welcome to waste your money on a technically incompetent team that can't even send email properly.
February 26, 2018, 07:14:27 PM
you are a venezuelan against the venezuelan government that just registered recently trying to boycott elPetro.
Actually, I registered on this forum before you did. And I could accuse you of being a KGB agent that registered recently to shill the petro. I could tell you I despise the far right too, and that you're making oversimplifications and straw-manning me. But where would that take us? Off-topic.
Yes, I am Venezuelan and proud of it. And I'm shedding light on the petro because when Maduro is exposed to everyone as the scammer he is, perhaps a less corrupt government will come along the and the people will be better off.
You guys may not care about the links I sent you proving insanely high corruption (Venezuela Swiss Leaks) or widespread poverty and hunger (ENCOVI), but they show the truth. We Venezuelans are tired of this: in the last free-ish elections that were held, the opposition got 2/3rd of Parliament, which means the majority of the population agrees with me.
Of course, if you want to spend your life savings on petro, I can't stop you. Tareck will be very happy about that extra yacht he'll be able to buy with all the naive people like yourself, and you'll never get your money back.
February 26, 2018, 06:15:50 PM
Dictatorship of Narco U.S. is regulating cryptocurrencies
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/26/17055264/coinbase-cryptocurrency-tax-irs-compliance-court-order
U.S. Senator calls for crackdown on Venezuela’s Petro
https://cryptovest.com/news/us-senator-calls-for-crackdown-on-venezuelas-petro/
why? isn't it supposed to be a shit coin? why so worry about the Petro coin then? lmao.
https://www.dailyrounds.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/i-dont-know.jpg
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/26/17055264/coinbase-cryptocurrency-tax-irs-compliance-court-order
U.S. Senator calls for crackdown on Venezuela’s Petro
https://cryptovest.com/news/us-senator-calls-for-crackdown-on-venezuelas-petro/
why? isn't it supposed to be a shit coin? why so worry about the Petro coin then? lmao.
https://www.dailyrounds.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/i-dont-know.jpg
February 26, 2018, 05:41:28 PM
Saying "I don't like" the government is an understatement. The government tore my family apart by making us all emigrate. The government has made people I care about go hungry, some of them I'm afraid to research if they're still alive.
You have an outsider perspective on Venezuela, and Russia Today/Venezuela State Propaganda is very, incredibly removed from the truth. I work with a team of independent journalists, with real Venezuelans who are actually living there and chronicle what happens.
The petro isn't just a project I don't like, it is a project that will continue to fund government corruption. I notice you didn't say anything about the Swiss Leaks, if the Venezuelan government is as virtuous as you claim, that leak wouldn't exist. And there's many, many more billions that are unaccounted for. This is what the petro will fund. If, after they steal the money, there's anything at all left for the good people of Venezuela, they'll throw us a bone or two.
You have an outsider perspective on Venezuela, and Russia Today/Venezuela State Propaganda is very, incredibly removed from the truth. I work with a team of independent journalists, with real Venezuelans who are actually living there and chronicle what happens.
The petro isn't just a project I don't like, it is a project that will continue to fund government corruption. I notice you didn't say anything about the Swiss Leaks, if the Venezuelan government is as virtuous as you claim, that leak wouldn't exist. And there's many, many more billions that are unaccounted for. This is what the petro will fund. If, after they steal the money, there's anything at all left for the good people of Venezuela, they'll throw us a bone or two.
Sorry i don't buy it. I was born in Argentina and have met many Venezuelans (and many economic crisis). I know what a dictatorship is (I was born in one) and Venezuela is obviously not one.
It's easy to know where a Venezuelan stands politically: see their bank accounts, their house and their skin colour. If they're white and middle-upper-class, 90% of chances are they're opposition supporters, hysterical about the socialist government and live a surrogate of the US culture. I'm not saying all whites are right wing, but most are. It's the same in all Latin America. It's a legacy of a continent that is still a colony.
I hope the Petro will work. You can hope it won't, your country and its people will suffer even more, so you can satisfy your hatred. You are free.
February 26, 2018, 05:24:28 PM
I am a Venezuelan who has lived there for 24 years...
i knew it from the beginning.you are a venezuelan against the venezuelan government that just registered recently trying to boycott elPetro.
that's all.
unfortunately for you, nothing is going to change no matter what lie you write here.
but hey! don't be sad, look at it from the bright side, thanks for taking up the thread
now, suck Donald Trump's balls a little more.
and don't forget to give AR15 rifles to the US teachers, that's going to work for sure
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW6REItW4AAeqqW.jpg
tassenb, if you want to waste your time with CiA agents, that's your problem.
the following image says: "this is how a Latino looks like when they defend their masters" (the US imperialism or dictatorship)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVw7BjYW4AIVtZ7.jpg
Quote
'Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.' Mark Twain
February 26, 2018, 04:36:46 PM
This is your personal opinion, because you don't like the government. Fair enough.
Saying "I don't like" the government is an understatement. The government tore my family apart by making us all emigrate. The government has made people I care about go hungry, some of them I'm afraid to research if they're still alive.
You have an outsider perspective on Venezuela, and Russia Today/Venezuela State Propaganda is very, incredibly removed from the truth. I work with a team of independent journalists, with real Venezuelans who are actually living there and chronicle what happens.
The petro isn't just a project I don't like, it is a project that will continue to fund government corruption. I notice you didn't say anything about the Swiss Leaks, if the Venezuelan government is as virtuous as you claim, that leak wouldn't exist. And there's many, many more billions that are unaccounted for. This is what the petro will fund. If, after they steal the money, there's anything at all left for the good people of Venezuela, they'll throw us a bone or two.
February 26, 2018, 04:09:49 PM
I would love it if the Venezuelan government came up with a true, decentralized, well-executed cryptocurrency that worked for the people. But this is not it. This is just a scam to stay in power, and I mean that as a person who has watched them act for many, many years.
This is your personal opinion, because you don't like the government. Fair enough.
The myth of "decentralisation" is ok for independent entities. We've already seen private companies exploiting the "decentralised" myth: their stuff is totally centralised, which is even worse than a government as they're not even electable or changeable or accountable and they can fail anytime and keep the money. A government will only create "centralised" systems because they'll always be part of a political management, like any sovereign monetary system.
Petro is not a "scam". It is just a project you don't like. Great, don't buy it.
But it's here and I hope it'll be a success and will benefit the whole Venezuelan economy. We will see.
February 26, 2018, 03:37:15 PM
and a lot of venezuelan have dollars and euros.
When you say "a lot", exactly how many do you mean?
Are you including the 87% of Venezuelans who currently live in poverty?
Are you including the 62% of Venezuelans who don't have enough to eat?
You think *these* people have the disposable income to buy dollars?
https://www.ucab.edu.ve/investigacion/centros-e-institutos-de-investigacion/encovi-2017/
Of course not. The petro is a way for the government to fund itself, and potentially funnel more billions into their Swiss offshore accounts: https://projects.icij.org/swiss-leaks/countries/ven
Very little of it will end up in Venezuelans' pockets.
February 26, 2018, 03:26:58 PM
Let's be clear: I have so many doubts too, but my doubts concern mostly the technical aspects, the real implementation, not the opposition ridiculous narratives. Venezuelan opposition is mostly a mafia funded by the US, they push people to complain about everything and keep a destructive, often criminal behaviour. They are anti-democratic, often racists, supported coups, sanctions and some would even appreciate a military invasion against their own people. Anyway media propaganda plays a huge role here, and the Petro is obviously concerned by that too. There's decent people that oppose the government too, but they are quite rare and isolated.
I can assure you, my friend, that I'm not paid by Washington nor do I have any ties, direct or indirect, to the US Government. I'm a decent person that opposes the government, I am a Venezuelan who has lived there for 24 years, and I hope we can discuss rationally. You can find me on Twitter by the same handle. Podemos hablar en español.
The technical aspects and the implementation were disastrous. Bad SSL certificates, huge load times, it takes forever to get an email, very weak AML provisions, an ideological and technically weak whitepaper, the problems are endless. Technicians who are this bad have no business making a cryptocurrency.
I would love it if the Venezuelan government came up with a true, decentralized, well-executed cryptocurrency that worked for the people. But this is not it. This is just a scam to stay in power, and I mean that as a person who has watched them act for many, many years.
February 26, 2018, 03:13:27 PM
Therefore all this polemic about the barrel is not the main point here! There is much more behind the Petro. Let's not forget that the oil barrel is just the base value of Petro, its value can be higher. If this works, and Petro starts to be used even by a small part of the Venezuelan people and for a small percentage of the oil trade, the value of Petro could grow in time.
As the petro is not really backed by Venezuelan oil in any meaningful way (this was the discussion) the value of a barrel of Venezuelan oil will not be the base value of the petro. Its value might be lower. (But of course, as you say, it might be also higher.)
Ok, I accept your argument as potentially valid, until we know the mechanism of exchange the government will put in place. The Petro price could be lower than the oil barrel IF the markets decides so.
In my opinion this will determined much more by the way the Petro works (wallets, transactions, exchanges, real adoption etc) than the way Venezuela will pay for them. For example, if the Petro network gets hacked or it ends up being unusable for technical reasons (after normal problems in the first months or so), it could fail, its price could drop.
BUT if Petro works (which mostly depends by the resources they get at the ICO stage and the people involved) this project can surprise the world and represent a decent headache for Washington.
I can tell that there are crypto currencies in the top 10 that were developed with much less resources than the Petro could have available. But hey, this is what's so interesting about it. We're in science fiction territory.
February 26, 2018, 03:06:51 PM
The government is not even promising this. It only promises to accept petros at a rate they themselves set and at a discount as payment of "national taxes, fees, contributions and public services".
This is quite misleading. The Petro is a new crypto currency, this means:
- EXHANGES: Petro will be traded in the secondary market: exchanges around the world and in Venezuela.
- MASS ADOPTION: Petro will be accepted for payments of taxes, fees, public services and more from day 1, therefore offering a large adoption (larger than any other existing crypto).
- BIG NUMBERS: Petro will be accepted for Venezuelan oil trade (which is in the range of 8-25 billion US dollars).
- ATTRACTIVE PRICE: The ICO will offer Petros at an attractive, discounted price: companies with Petros will then be able to buy oil at it's normal price with Petros.
- PRIVATE SECTOR ADOPTION: Private companies in Venezuela (like shops) could start accepting Petros, once they are launched in the market, increasing the adoption even more.
- EXPANSION OF PUBLIC SECTOR ADOPTION: Eventually, the State could even decide to pay public employees and social benefits with Petros and expand further its use.
- ANTI-INFLATION: Because of its anti-inflationary nature, the Petro could be much more interesting for Venezuelans than Bolivares and more convenient and safe than US dollars
Petro could become the most used crypto in the world, at least until other countries like Russia or Iran do the same.
All of this might be the case (or not), some of it probably will be the case (assuming that the thing goes ahead, anyway), but most of it is irrelevant for the question whether petros will be backed by oil (which was the point I was discussing here).
Therefore all this polemic about the barrel is not the main point here! There is much more behind the Petro. Let's not forget that the oil barrel is just the base value of Petro, its value can be higher. If this works, and Petro starts to be used even by a small part of the Venezuelan people and for a small percentage of the oil trade, the value of Petro could grow in time.
As the petro is not really backed by Venezuelan oil in any meaningful way (this was the discussion) the value of a barrel of Venezuelan oil will not be the base value of the petro. Its value might be lower. (But of course, as you say, it might be also higher.)
February 26, 2018, 03:01:17 PM
in fact.
right now, a venezuelan can buy bitcoins and ethereums in their local venezuelan currency.
and a lot of venezuelan have dollars and euros.
so, a venezuelan can participate in the pre-sale or whatever they want.
as i said, they are just talking shit and lies.
right now, a venezuelan can buy bitcoins and ethereums in their local venezuelan currency.
and a lot of venezuelan have dollars and euros.
so, a venezuelan can participate in the pre-sale or whatever they want.
as i said, they are just talking shit and lies.
February 26, 2018, 02:58:17 PM
tassenb, don't waste your time discussing with them.
they registered recently in this forum to talk shit about elPetro and the venezuelan government, that's it.
they are not real investors and they don't care what you're saying.
and real big investors aren't wasting time reading this shit anyway.
they registered recently in this forum to talk shit about elPetro and the venezuelan government, that's it.
they are not real investors and they don't care what you're saying.
and real big investors aren't wasting time reading this shit anyway.
I know. But their criticism helps to explore the problem further and discuss some myths or some weak arguments.
Let's be clear: I have so many doubts too, but my doubts concern mostly the technical aspects, the real implementation, not the opposition ridiculous narratives. Venezuelan opposition is mostly a mafia funded by the US, they push people to complain about everything and keep a destructive, often criminal behaviour. They are anti-democratic, often racists, supported coups, sanctions and some would even appreciate a military invasion against their own people. Anyway media propaganda plays a huge role here, and the Petro is obviously concerned by that too. There's decent people that oppose the government too, but they are quite rare and isolated.
February 26, 2018, 02:51:30 PM
- PUBLIC SECTOR ADOPTION: Petro will be accepted for payments of taxes, fees, public services and more from day 1, therefore offering a large adoption (larger than any other existing crypto).
False, the public won't adopt petro because the public can't BUY petro using VEF
My friend, will all due respect, this is misleading again. Venezuelans who don't have dollars, euros, yuans, bitcoins or ethers will not participate to the ICO, and this is a good thing. Why? Because the government looks for international currency to fund the development of Petro and launch it. Venezuelans, mostly the poor, shouldn't pay for the Petro! Venezuelans should get the benefits from it!
Venezuelans will get Petros in a second time, through other means: national and international exchanges, payments from the government or companies that have Petros, shops could accept Petros etc... this is a work in progress. You can decide to participate or stay away.
February 26, 2018, 02:44:42 PM
i heard they are coming out with a gold backed crypto too...any news about that?
Not yet officially announced, should be this week or next. But don't expect much from announcements, we need to see the technology at work.
Only thing to mention: Venezuela is also one of the largest proven reserves of gold in the world and has considerable national gold reserves.
February 26, 2018, 02:41:04 PM
tassenb, don't waste your time discussing with them.
they registered recently in this forum to talk shit about elPetro and the venezuelan government, that's it.
they are not real investors and they don't care what you're saying.
and real big investors aren't wasting time reading this shit anyway.
so, whatever is going to happen, it's going to happen.
no matter what we discuss here, nothing will be effected.
they registered recently in this forum to talk shit about elPetro and the venezuelan government, that's it.
they are not real investors and they don't care what you're saying.
and real big investors aren't wasting time reading this shit anyway.
so, whatever is going to happen, it's going to happen.
no matter what we discuss here, nothing will be effected.
February 26, 2018, 02:38:01 PM
- PUBLIC SECTOR ADOPTION: Petro will be accepted for payments of taxes, fees, public services and more from day 1, therefore offering a large adoption (larger than any other existing crypto).
False, the public won't adopt petro because the public can't BUY petro using VEF.
- MASS ADOPTION: Petro will be accepted for Venezuelan oil trade (which is in the range of 8-25 billion US dollars).
False. PDVSA cannot force its creditors or suppliers to accept petro. They will simply go elsewhere. Our extra-heavy oil isn't that attractive to most investors, and PDVSA is in no position to demand special payment conditions.- ATTRACTIVE PRICE: The ICO will offer Petros at an attractive, discounted price: companies with Petros will then be able to buy oil at it's normal price with Petros.
False again. A Venezuelan barrel of oil isn't worth $60, even when loaded on a tanker. Even with the ICO discount, and even if they were actually giving you oil, this would be a bad deal. Again: the government won't give you oil, they will give you VEF.- ANTI-INFLATION: Because of its anti-inflationary nature, the Petro could be much more interesting for Venezuelans than Bolivares and more convenient and safe than US dollars
This claim is quite hilarious coming from the government responsible for the only hyperinflation currently in the world. Why don't they make VEF "anti-inflation" then? Why didn't they think of that? February 26, 2018, 02:35:09 PM
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