Topic: [PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela - page 70. (Read 28500 times)

I agree, but I understand that before committing the government must have solid reserves of crypto. They simply don't have that at the moment (no government in the world does, and this is something very innovative too). As i said, I believe this is something they can change later, either after the ICO or even in the next months or years.

i think that part only concern to a venezuelan living in venezuela.
it doesn't make sense for a foreigner living in another country.
the venezuelan government don't pay interests to its international investors with the venezuelan currency (Bolivar).

Exactly. The price of a Venezuelan oil barrel is supposed to be the base price, not necessarily the price the Petro will reach while freely exchanged and traded. This was confirmed in several comments, even by Maduro.

As for the exchange you won't get oil, obviously. You will get the official value of the oil barrel, in Bolivares. In my opinion this is potentially going to change in the future if the government decides to create more confidence: they could extend the exchange to other cryptos, instead of only Bolivares which would be hard to actually use outside of Venezuela. But they need first to create a national reserve of cryptos to support that option. That could already be the case after the ICO.

That phrase is copied from the White Paper. You are wrong, $PTR is backed by oil assets and will be exchanged by its value in Bolivares. The mechanism is not in place yet, simply because the Petro is not even active yet.

you have a narrow mind or you're a liar.

the sale by the government won't be the only way a venezuelan could obtain Petros.

a venezuelan will be able to obtain Petros with its actual currency (Bolivar) in the secondary market,
after the sale by the venezuelan government.

other way is interchanging goods, work or services for Petros.
a venezuelan can receive Petros in his/her digital wallet selling stuffs to buyers that have Petros.
a venezuelan can do a job to someone that will pay with Petros.
that's how the Petro will start to circulate and spread.
meanwhile, in Venezuela, we already using others cryptocurrencies.

more lies and more fake news.

if the venezuelan government "forbids its citizens from buying foreign currency",
Why a venezuelan can open an "american dollar bank account" in their local banks,
even in the government bank (public bank).
How is that possible? weird "dictatorship"?

I live in Venezuela and I have american dollars, euros and others currencies.
How did I buy them if it's "forbidden"?

No it won't. ~95% of Venezuelans can't participate in the initial sale, because they don't have foreign currency. Venezuela forbids its citizens from buying foreign currency.

An example of how the followers of the US empire (bullies) spread fake news against Venezuela.


Spray painted gold rocks?
When and where this happened?
the president Nicolas Maduro didn't "announce officially" the PetroGold.
It will be announced officially soon.

Searching about this, you can only find this image:


As you can see, it's an edited image.

Right-wing anti-Venezuela fake news.
Now you understand.

Well I see mention of an oil backing.   A properly backed currency, which is unusual now in paper FIAT, would be exchanged for oil at some level.   So I'd like to see that idea cleared up, how many Petro to fill an oil tanker should I choose to do so.   If its possible to do this, the currency will never devalue more then oil itself.    I'm guessing this level of backing is not on the ratio I imagine

Part of what is said by taseenb is right but unfortunately much is wrong or misleading and simply reflects the official propaganda around the petro. Only a few examples:


El Petro will not be backed by oil assets as is made clear by the white paper. There is no mechanism at all by which a holder of petros will be able to successfully claim oil assets or their value from the Venezuelan state.


While it is true that Venezuela is one of the cheapest countries to mine cryptocurrencies, this is only the case because electricity is subsidized and sold under its real costs. The electric system of Venezuela is in shambles as shown by rationing and frequent blackouts. From the perspective of the country as a whole there is a real disadvantage in terms of energy, as through mining the precarious supply of electricity is diverged from other essential uses.


This is, so far, only a promise. And there is every reason to doubt it. In the original English version of the white paper we read: “There will be no extraordinary issues without the approval of Petro’s holders in a vote conducted through the chain of Petro blocks on the basis of one (1) Petro equal to one (1) vote.”


This is correct and I hope people heed the warning!


According to the white paper the government will not pay anything for petros, not even in bolivares. (Which are not of much interest for foreign inverstors.) It only promisses to accept Petro’s as a form of payment of national taxes, fees, contributions and public services with a discount of at least 10% according to a formula which gives the government much leeway to manipulate the rate at which it will accept petros for bolivares. (This is one of Vitalik’s points https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/966308397103570944) This promise isn’t of much value for foreign investors, and given the record of Venezuela of not fulfilling it’s obligations together with the discount and the ease of manipulations, the market price of petros might be well under the international price of Venezuelan oil. (But of course, what actually will be the market price we do not know.)


The US-sanctions didn't force Venezuela to trade in other currencies and most probably it continues to trade in US dollars with the US and many other partners.


Whether pre-sale is working, we don’t know. According to the white paper during pre-sale some people should be able to buy tokens which later on can be changed to petro-tokens. Definitely this isn’t possible through the use of other cryptocurrencies and a wallet, and obviously you weren’t able to do it either. The possibility to make a non-binding offer is not what the white paper speaks about when it explains the pre-sale. I guess the only use of these non-binding offers is to give the government the possibility to boost those inflated numbers of intentions to buy petros. (735 million dollars during only 20 hours, more than 1000 million in only two days. Stay tuned for updates!)


As for me, I made an offer too, but without any intentions to buy this very risky “currency”. But it gave me access to the contract the government expects investors to sign: http://elpetro.gob.ve/docs/OFERTA%20FINAL%205.pdf Only the most ignorant will do so. (But I’m sure, some people already did it.) You are supposed to provide a binding offer to buy petros for a certain amount of foreign currency without any information of how much petros you will get. In the contract there is nothing about the link to the international price of Venezuelan oil and the discounts which would apply during pre-sale. Actually you have explicitly to accept that SUPCACVEN (Superintendencia de los Criptoactivos y Actividades Conexas Venezolana) doesn’t guarantee any price and the price is variable and depends on the total amount of the placement of the assets for the offers to buy it received. (My translation tries to make sense of "es variable y dependerá del monto total de la colocación de los activos por la oferta de éstos recibida".) You also have to accept explicitly all risks and dangers of the offering and agree that SUPCACVEN is not responsible for any losses of value the petro might suffer. Basically the contract indicates that the collocation of petro-tokens is done in some form of very intransparent bidding. (Even worse than the DICOM.)


What taseenb provides under this heading isn’t facts but a collection typical for the “bolivarian” propaganda. I could show that with many examples but two might suffice.


You will find this claim all over the internet. But if you actually bother to inquire what Carter was trying to say, you will see that it does not mean that Venezuela has the most democratic electoral system. Carter speaks of the technical side of the voting process:

“Venezuela does have the best electoral system on earth as far as the voting procedure is concerned. Everybody goes in and you touch a screen and you vote automatically and then in addition to that you fill out a paper ballot and you put the paper ballot, after you made sure it’s the same as the screen, in a box and then those paper ballots can be counted later on and they are counted in Venezuela to make sure that the representative sample match the screen. So the voting procedure in Venezuela is very good but there are also very serious problems with Venezuelan elections which we pointed out very clearly. One is that the incumbent government always uses the power of the government for their own advantage. The last two elections Venezuela has not let the Carter Center come in. They have refused to let us come in and monitor the elections.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9PF-r0yKBU

Small irony: This system, praised by Carter, was implemented by Smartmatic and the company proudly quotes Carter on its webpage: https://elections.smartmatic.com/carter-the-electoral-system-in-venezuela-is-the-best-in-the-world The very same company which revealed that the elections to the unconstitutional (yes, unconstitutional) “National Constitutional Assembly” were manipulated up by least 1 million votes: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-vote-smartmatic/venezuelan-election-turnout-figures-manipulated-by-one-million-votes-election-company-idUSKBN1AI1KZ


Basically any independent observer disagrees. Let’s only quote amnesty international:

“Venezuela remained in a state of emergency, repeatedly extended since January 2016. A National Constituent Assembly was elected without the participation of the opposition. The Attorney General was dismissed under irregular circumstances. Security forces continued to use excessive and undue force to disperse protests. Hundreds of people were arbitrarily detained. There were many reports of torture and other ill-treatment, including sexual violence against demonstrators. The judicial system continued to be used to silence dissidents, including using military jurisdiction to prosecute civilians. Human rights defenders were harassed, intimidated and subject to raids. Conditions of detention were extremely harsh.” https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/venezuela/

And please note, Amnesty International does its own independent research and does not simply rely on major TV networks and news outlets. And the Venezuelan government rejects all independent human rights bodies if itself is concerned.

The Petro oficial web site receives 500% more user visits
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzGVa8EvLtQ
http://www.elpetro.gob.ve/

Petro offers exceed $1 billion in just two days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD9048RbINw

follow TelesurTV English

Petro: success or fail

Let's play this game. Many followers of the US empire hope the Petro will fail. Their hatred is all over the place, well supported by mainstream media war propaganda and fake news. But many others, like me, really hope it's a success.
Who dares to face the threats of the US empire? Few dare. Venezuela is one of them. A dissident Latin American country with only 30 million people, rich in oil and natural resources, but historically poor, Venezuela had been treated as a colony by the US for more than a century, before Chavez won in 1998 and became President. After a US backed coup in 2002, they still need to fight for their sovereignty and independence, at a great price. Several illegal US "sanctions" are currently active to stop US dollars from reaching Venezuela, making it very hard to trade and import goods. Sanctions have a single goal: starve the country in order to overthrow the current (elected) government through a coup or even a war. The Petro ($PTR) has a huge potential and could actually help Venezuela. But it all depends on many factors. So, why would the Petro succeed or fail?


Success

• Mass adoption -
  Petro is the first State-issued crypto asset. The State will accept payments for taxes, fees, contributions, public services in Petros and other cryptos. If even a decent number of the 30 million Venezuelans manage to get Petros or the government manages to pay public employees in Petros, this could stimulate the private sector to adopt the crypto asset too. It would be the most used crypto in the world, and this could happen relatively quickly.
  
  
• Big numbers -
  Venezuelan oil exports amount to 8 billion US dollars a year now, but before the oil crisis it was around 25 billions. Petro was introduced to fight the US blockade that makes oil trade in US dollars and with US companies and banks almost impossible. By negotiating the adoption of Petro with trade partners around the world, Venezuelans could collect large amounts of fiat and crypto currency during the ICO. But the Petro could also become a massively valuable asset for oil international trades (and also gold, diamonds, other metals and goods).
  
  
• Crypto reserves -
  Petro does not come alone. The Venezuelan government started a large scale operation to collect crypto currencies and use them as national reserve: not only they will accept Bitcoins and Ethereum for taxes and public services, they are also regulating the miners and the use of crypto in the national economy, they are creating State owned mining factories around the country and they’re even creating crypto trading courses to form young people to trade crypto online! Most of these initiatives are done in the universities and led by young workers and students.
  
  

Fail

• ICO failure -
  The negative propaganda around the Petro in the crypto community reflects the mainstream media propaganda on Venezuela. It is unlikely that many people in the US and Europe will invest in Petro during the ICO stage, but the rest of the world, including companies and people in countries like China, Russia, India, Brazil and many others could be extremely interested. This will be a huge stress test for the Petro and a serious failure could make the project unsustainable, mostly because 45% of the ICO money is supposed to support the development. If money is not enough, it is unlikely that the Petro will thrive.
  
  
• Technical failure -
  Venezuela is the first country to create a sovereign crypto asset, it has never been done before. The technical challenge is huge, in terms of organisation, management, security. They need considerable resources to make sure they can afford a sustained development of the Petro network with the most talented and experienced minds they can get: at the moment of the launch, a Venezuelan and a Russian company have been publicly introduced as the two main technical assets for the project.
  
  
• US sabotage, terrorism, coup or war -
  Both Iraq and Libya wars were motivated by the decision of their governments to get rid of the US dollar, more than anything else. Those countries have been totally destroyed, millions have died. Times have changed in the last years with China and Russia unhappy with US imperial overreach. The US are an oversized empire, always more violent and with a disproportionate arsenal, but also struggling with too many challenges. Some analysts say it is unlikely that the US will start a hot war in South America, but many think Colombia is their military proxy, mostly because of the large number of Colombian paramilitaries always active at the border with Venezuela. Venezuela has many big friends, but far away: if the US manage to destabilise Venezuela to a point where the institutions collapse, the Petro will likely fail. And it would be a bloodshed.
  
  

Check my article on Medium: https://medium.com/@taseenb/petro-success-or-fail-be0bd38930a1

Venezuelan Petro Cryptocurrency Launched
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NKKu2s9D3k
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They launched the pre-sale stage on February 20th, and it should last until March 19th. You can already register and declare how much you want to buy, but you cannot buy yet. For updates, keep reading here or in the official page: http://www.elpetro.gob.ve/index-en.html

so, bitcoin is backed by code, a pile of electronic trash and polluted air.
it sounds like scam to me.

I will buy some petros and some petrogolds as soon as they released them.
Not because you said so or because i want to invest, just because i live in Venezuela and the Petro will become a local currency, that's for sure.
No, wait, thinking better, I WILL RECEIVE petros and petrogolds in my digital wallet as a pay for my services.

If you don't like Maduro "dictatorship" as you called it,
then don't buy anything from Venezuela and close the door after leaving this thread.
good luck!

Hello to the team and to the crypto community! How quickly is the blockchain technology rolling forward and the crypto world also. The first state backed token. That is really awesome.
But when is the ico starting. I would really want to invest

it was a project I've heard from friends for a long time. I still can't believe it. because when oil is so valuable in the world, it won't be easy to get the support of Crypto money pawns in this way. the great States might want to stop it. but I think this capital will be collected.  

¿Petro will be "crypto"? (transactions encrypted, anonymous...)
i don't know.
If this worry you, just wait until it's more clear.

¿Petro will be a "currency"?
at least for the venezuelan people, yes.
a local currency.

after being released, some "international exchanges" will be starting selling it.
¿how the Petro will be centralized? ¿centralized what? ¿its blockchain?
¿how the venezuelan goverment will centralized "international exchanges"?
¿what's your worry? ¿that the venezuelan government fuck it up after selling all the petros?
then just wait until it's more clear.

as far as i know, it's a "offer to buy".
no money, no tokens, no petros, no transactions in a blockchain, no blockchain, no nothing at the moment.
just a legal document saying how many petros do you want to buy and how you will pay.
¿is it clear now?

FYI Venezuela is a democracy where people can vote and be candidates. Maduro was elected in 2013, even if by a small margin. He's the constitutional president of the country, not a dictator.

Next Presidential election is on 22nd April, 2018, very soon.

Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other successful cryptocurrencies are backed by open source code that defines a controlled money supply, distributed via proof-of-work or proof-of-stake, to the nodes that support the network.  They represent digital scarcity that is controlled by code, not by people. The current Petro is a token on NEM with the supply entirely controlled by the Venezuelan government.  There is a promise to move to it's own blockchain, but there are no details available about that blockchain.

If you like the Maduro dictatorship and believe their promises, I recommend you buy as much Petro as you can possibly afford.  Then, I suggest you save up and buy as much of their gold "backed" coin as you can as well.  You will get the same reward as all Venezuelans have - both Chavista and opposition.

I would think this is a straight out money scam. Really a sad day for crypto.