Topic: [PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela - page 68. (Read 28472 times)

What's important here is that if Petro works, people and companies will have less problems with inflation and also with international trade (therefore exchange limitations will be less relevant and impact less companies that need to import goods, machinery etc). That's the point, regardless our personal opinions on government policies, sanctions, economic war, financial and commercial crimes (bachaqueo, black market, currency extraction and destruction) etc.

The problem I would like to discuss is IF and HOW it is going to work. That is the challenge of historical proportions that Maduro, the technical teams working on Petro and Venezuela as a people are facing today.

In accordance with the present English version of the white paper the petro will be based on NEM too: "Prior to the Initial Offer, the 100 million (100,000,000) cryptoassets of the issue will be pre-mined in the Petro blocks chain. The Petro NEM blockchain token will have Petro from its own blockchain reserved to be exchanged when decided by its holders."


It makes more or less as much sense as destroying the bolivar by increasing the money supply to finance the fiscal deficit and by a disastrous exchange policy.

This is quite misleading. The Petro is a new crypto currency, this means:

- EXHANGES: Petro will be traded in the secondary market: exchanges around the world and in Venezuela.
- MASS ADOPTION: Petro will be accepted for payments of taxes, fees, public services and more from day 1, therefore offering a large adoption (larger than any other existing crypto).
- BIG NUMBERS: Petro will be accepted for Venezuelan oil trade (which is in the range of 8-25 billion US dollars).
- ATTRACTIVE PRICE: The ICO will offer Petros at an attractive, discounted price: companies with Petros will then be able to buy oil at it's normal price with Petros.
- PRIVATE SECTOR ADOPTION: Private companies in Venezuela (like shops) could start accepting Petros, once they are launched in the market, increasing the adoption even more.
- EXPANSION OF PUBLIC SECTOR ADOPTION: Eventually, the State could even decide to pay public employees and social benefits with Petros and expand further its use.
- ANTI-INFLATION: Because of its anti-inflationary nature, the Petro could be much more interesting for Venezuelans than Bolivares and more convenient and safe than US dollars

Petro could become the most used crypto in the world, at least until other countries like Russia or Iran do the same.

Therefore all this polemic about the barrel is not the main point here! There is much more behind the Petro. Let's not forget that the oil barrel is just the base value of Petro, its value can be higher. If this works, and Petro starts to be used even by a small part of the Venezuelan people and for a small percentage of the oil trade, the value of Petro could grow in time.

This article is very good and explains well various reasons (there are more) why the supposed oil backing is pure fiction. If you know Spanish: Highly recommended.


The government is not even promising this. It only promises to accept petros at a rate they themselves set and at a discount as payment of "national taxes, fees, contributions and public services". If you don't owe anything to the government and don't need it's services (as will be mostly the case for foreign investors) this promise isn't of any direct value to you.

If anybody was off-topic it was the OP, I was just replying to a comment and said I'd get back to the discussion.

In any case, Venezuelan Law is very much relevant for an investor that wants to put money on the petro. Maduro's regime claims the petro is legal when lawyerly consensus says it is not. He also claims that it's backed by oil when it's not (read the Prodavinci article I linked upthread – Prodavinci is one of the few Venezuelan news outlets the government doesn't control). It's backed by a VEF-denominated barrel of oil, and the government has hyperinflated the price of the bolívar. They're printing tons more as we speak.

All of these things are relevant to analyze whether the petro is an awful investment.

alemacgo, you're offtopic.
if you want to discuss about venezuelan politics or laws, then go to another thread or forum.
this thread is about the venezuelan cryptocurrency, "el Petro".
do what tassenb already told you.

You're clutching at straws. As you can see by yourself, your claim is false, despite all desperate arguments you're trying to steal from the opposition's propaganda. The Constitution clearly states that the President can call elections for a new Constitutional Assembly.

Like it or not, the Petro is a fact.

Petro is the first country to be issued cryptoasset,
Registration for pre-sale starts on February 20th at 06.00 am and ends on March 19 at 06.00 WIB.
Petro ($ PTR) will be a sovereign crypto asset backed by oil assets and issued by the State of Venezuela.

my question,
is this already listed dibursa ,?

interesting to follow,

The discussion is getting off-topic, but I'll say this:

Artículo 347. El pueblo de Venezuela es el depositario del poder constituyente originario. En ejercicio de dicho poder, puede convocar una Asamblea Nacional Constituyente con el objeto de transformar al Estado, crear un nuevo ordenamiento jurídico y redactar una nueva Constitución.

"The people of Venezuela may invoke a Constituent Assembly".

Artículo 348. La iniciativa de convocatoria a la Asamblea Nacional Constituyente podrá hacerla el Presidente...

"The initiative to convoke a Constituent Assembly may be enforced by the President..."

Seriously, try to find any Venezuelan lawyer with experience in Constitutional law. All of them will agree that this "initiative to convoke" means that it has to be approved by the people first (like Article 347 says). If Maduro is so fond of democracy, why didn't he ask the people if they wanted a Constituent Assembly? There was no way to vote against the Constituent Assembly.

In short, the petro is illegal, by international consensus, which is all that matters when you're trying to raise money. Venezuela's own sovereign Parliament and 12 countries in the Americas have refused to recognize the authority of a supra-constitutional body that sits on top of democratic institutions.

Can you tell me the article of the Constitution that says you have to do a Yes/No referendum to call the election of the Constituent Assembly?

The Petro was approved by the Constituent Assembly, the highest institution in Venezuela, therefore the Petro was legally launched. The rest is gossip and desperate propaganda, unfortunately.

You will not find a single Venezuelan lawyer expert in Constitutional Law that thinks the National Constituent Assembly is legal. It was invoked by Maduro without a Yes/No referendum, which is required by law (http://www.minci.gob.ve/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/CONSTITUCION.pdf), and the company responsible for the technology behind our elections for over 10 years said the results were tampered with: http://www.smartmatic.com/news/article/smartmatic-statement-on-the-recent-constituent-assembly-election-in-venezuela/

It's quite simple. The petro is new issuance of debt, Venezuela's constitution explicitly requires new debt to be approved by Parliament (not by Constituent Assemblies), hence the petro is illegal.

Your lawyers friends certainly know the law and respect the institutions of Venezuela, i believe. Therefore they must know that the National Assembly has been in contempt of court for more than a year and was eventually suspended by the Supreme Court because they never accepted to fix the illegal status of some of its deputies. Anyway the Constituent Assembly has been elected in the meanwhile, so they are just a suspended body without any power used by the opposition to make statements and meetings. US media obviously only report opposition claims. The opposition is funded with million of dollars by the US, that have practiced a perpetual meddling in the political process of Venezuela, for decades.

In short, Petro is completely legal under Venezuelan law and had the approval of all legitimate and constitutional institutions.

I haven't said they are partners. I've said that they have relations with Chinese companies providing hardware (Venezuela is a client in this case). That's been the case for a long time, also before the Petro. Mostly for their Canaima project (Venezuelan free computers for children and students) and also public transportation. Commercial relations with China and Russia are very strong.

Venezuela is the first country in the world that is creating mining farms for Bitcoins and regulating private miners.

Really? Show me the statements made by those companies. Just because the government buys a lot of Chinese Antminers L3 doesn't make them partners.

1 - "What they did with their fiat currency" is misleading: all Central Banks in the world print money (in particular the US, the country with the greatest external debt in history) and in South America inflation is a chronic disease, for many reasons. But the inflation in Venezuela has been largely fabricated, it's not a "normal" high inflation. The exchange rate with the US dollar is defined by black markets that are strongly manipulated from Miami and Colombia, goods distribution is blocked by sabotages and lack of international currency due to the US sanctions and lack of international currency in the country. The US have practiced financial wars and psyops in South America many times to overthrow democratically elected governments.

2 - The Petro will be a token based on the Ethereum blockchain. As far as i know, if the supply is defined you cannot change it without a hard fork (but this is very technical and we will know this when the Petro will be out). So far all this is just guesses.

3 - The government is looking for an anti-inflationary, globally accepted, reliable currency to trade its oil, collect funds to make investments (blocked by the sanctions for lack of US dollars) and control inflation. So there is no interest in manipulating the supply in the future, because it would mean losing the confidence and therefore the value created around their Petro. It simply doesn't make sense.

Oh, I didn't know you were a Venezuelan lawyer. I know many lawyers and they all agree that the petro is an illegal issuance of debt, because it wasn't approved by Parliament.

Here's an article that may clear up some of your misconceptions about the supposed oil backing: https://prodavinci.com/esta-el-petro-realmente-respaldado-por-reservas-petroleras/

Remember, the government isn't promising to give you oil in exchange for petros. It's promising to give you the amount of bolívares that a barrel of oil is worth, based on the rate that they themselves set (and have set for 15 years, since exchange controls were enacted).

Except Saudi Arabia (US vassal), they are all very involved already in Petro and in their own crypto currencies, in many different ways. One of the companies developing Petro is Russian and Venezuela has huge relations with Chinese companies providing hardware (certainly also for their newly launched State owned mining factories, and also for private miners that are now regulated in Venezuela).

What we read here is the US/European focused imperial (and often racist) culture that is losing grip: people repeat narratives from the US propaganda as if everything coming out from Bloomberg, Reuters, CNN, New York Times was true, and anybody else was an idiot or evil. Well, it will be nice to see. Many surprises to come.

False: many think differently. You simply repeat what you see in the mainstream and social media (from one part of the world only, which means massive hostile propaganda against Venezuela).
Venezuela history, relations with the US and the situation of its economy are a complex subjects: either you get into it seriously or you keep living in Disneyworld and repeating childish narratives. That's very simple.

This has never happened in history and Venezuela will push crypto adoption (not only Petro) like no other country has done so far.

But hey, sit back and relax. Nobody forces you to invest anything in Petro if you think it's a bad investment.

You know what we love the most about the decentralized movement? We have no need to trust central authorities, especially authorities that spend their days bossing around and ordering other people what to do, requiring absolute loyalty (that's what Maduro does, in case you haven't noticed, watch him give orders to the audience and get forced applauses, very North-Korea-style).

Maduro claimed a ridiculous number, considering the top-grossing ICOs in history, and considering the track record of Venezuela with economic mismanagement and hyperinflation. It's simply a bad investment, and everybody knows it.

So my very strong suspicion is that Maduro is (a) making those numbers up so that they sound impressive, or (b) ordered a bunch of people and bots to make fake offers, something that's not impossible to do, even with recaptcha. We have no way of knowing (sadly!) because the code isn't open source and nobody can audit it.

Shame.

You can have personal opinions and invent things. In economic and legal terms FACTS are:

- The oil reserves of a part of the Orinoco Belt (for 5.342 billion certified barrels of oil) form the initial backing of the Petro and this has been made into law in Venezuela, months ago.
- The White Paper is the only official document that introduces the project to the world, so until there is evidence of something else, that is what we know. Anything else is an opinion.
- The mechanism to exchange Petros in Bolivares is not in place yet for a simple reason: there are no Petros yet.

Also, this argument against the Petro is really weak. Few will want to actually exchange Petros in Bolivares (that is not the interest of Petro investors and that is not the goal): the expectation is that Petro will actually be more valuable that its value in oil/bolivares, once introduced in the secondary market (exchanges) because of its adoption by millions of people and companies, in Venezuela and abroad. That's the real challenge. Petro could be the most used (I don't say not the most traded) crypto currency in the world at some point.