Proof of stake mining of bicoin - page 4.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 11:12:16 AM

He is probably asking how the migration would be possible with vested interests and he brings up a fair point. Migrating away from PoW for Bitcoin probably isn't likely unless there was a 51% attack.

OK, let's wait for a lower Bitcoin price that will force some miners to switch to other coins.

BTCXE

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 11:12:16 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 30, 2014, 11:10:21 AM

Quote from: BTCXE on December 30, 2014, 10:57:08 AM

obviously that would make it non-lucrative for miners... how exactly would that work ?

Imagine that every bitcoin is a virtual mining rig and they can mine new blocks by taking part in a provably fair lottery.

He is probably asking how the migration would be possible with vested interests and he brings up a fair point. Migrating away from PoW for Bitcoin probably isn't likely unless there was a 51% attack.

my question was a combination of a) how exactly does PoS work and yes, b) WTH would people do with their mining equipment ?

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 30, 2014, 11:10:21 AM

Quote from: BTCXE on December 30, 2014, 10:57:08 AM

obviously that would make it non-lucrative for miners... how exactly would that work ?

Imagine that every bitcoin is a virtual mining rig and they can mine new blocks by taking part in a provably fair lottery.

He is probably asking how the migration would be possible with vested interests and he brings up a fair point. Migrating away from PoW for Bitcoin probably isn't likely unless there was a 51% attack.

cbeast

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Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 11:03:57 AM

There is no white paper because the wiki is speaking in general terms.
One example is Meni's implementation of adding proof of stake
checkpoints.... One of the key words here is adding proof
of stake, NOT replacing proof of work entirely.

If you were meaning to say that replacing proof of work entirely
with proof of stake shouldn't even be considered (rather than
being in the category of "disputed"), then I would generally
agree, as it is too huge of a change.

And by the way, this is a perfect example. Meni's idea sounds
appealing, but the core devs (and even Meni) dispute it being
implemented because they do not believe it will make bitcoin
more secure.

I think Meni had an ulterior motive for including it in the wiki. Perhaps he will remove once PoS has found its niche.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: BTCXE on December 30, 2014, 10:57:08 AM

obviously that would make it non-lucrative for miners... how exactly would that work ?

Imagine that every bitcoin is a virtual mining rig and they can mine new blocks by taking part in a provably fair lottery.

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

There is no white paper because the wiki is speaking in general terms.
One example is Meni's implementation of adding proof of stake
checkpoints.... One of the key words here is adding proof
of stake, NOT replacing proof of work entirely.

If you were meaning to say that replacing proof of work entirely
with proof of stake shouldn't even be considered (rather than
being in the category of "disputed"), then I would generally
agree, as it is too huge of a change.

And by the way, this is a perfect example. Meni's idea sounds
appealing, but the core devs (and even Meni) dispute it being
implemented because they do not believe it will make bitcoin
more secure.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:50:37 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:43:15 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 10:39:28 AM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:31:38 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 09:57:02 AM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 08:18:12 AM

Quote from: b-trading on December 26, 2014, 03:50:45 AM

i was wandering in the future can bitcoin switch to proof of stake?

This is an obvious troll thread that belongs in alt coins. Bitcoin has never considered any other design. Please move this thread.

Who is this bitcoin you speak of and when can we get an official statement?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes

There is nothing stopping you from making a hard fork. This isn't even a dispute. I don't know why the wiki says such nonsense. Good luck getting miners to switch to your fork.

The wiki says adding Proof of Stake elements to the Proof of Work would be a disputed change...because it is. Why is that nonsense?

Claiming something and doing something are two different things. Apparently this is the wiki author's opinion. That doesn't make it so. If someone wants to do it then they should go ahead and do it. Unless what you mean is that begging everyone to follow you is a bad idea. The begging part is in dispute.

Ok fair enough, but then by the same token, we can also say that the assertion "it is nonsense" is simply your opinion too. Agree?

Technically rejecting an unsubstantiated argument doesn't require evidence.

You're not making sense.

The wiki says this.

Quote

Disputed

Adding alternatives to Proof of Work such as Proof of Stake. This could change core bitcoin too much, but with widespread agreement of some sort might be possible.

I think that's pretty accurate. You can disagree, but so far you haven't convinced me why you're right and the wiki is wrong.

I concede the point because I don't understand it. Maybe someone should write a white paper on how it would be done so I have facts to deal with.

BTCXE

member

Activity: 69

Merit: 10

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 30, 2014, 10:46:08 AM

Quote from: BTCXE on December 30, 2014, 10:45:14 AM

sorry if this has been mentioned in this thread in the past, but how would PoS actually work ? Wouldnt that benefit existing holders of bitcoin ?

Holders - yes.
Miners - NO.

obviously that would make it non-lucrative for miners... how exactly would that work ?

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 10:44:54 AM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:43:15 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 10:39:28 AM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:31:38 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 09:57:02 AM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 08:18:12 AM

Quote from: b-trading on December 26, 2014, 03:50:45 AM

i was wandering in the future can bitcoin switch to proof of stake?

This is an obvious troll thread that belongs in alt coins. Bitcoin has never considered any other design. Please move this thread.

Who is this bitcoin you speak of and when can we get an official statement?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes

There is nothing stopping you from making a hard fork. This isn't even a dispute. I don't know why the wiki says such nonsense. Good luck getting miners to switch to your fork.

The wiki says adding Proof of Stake elements to the Proof of Work would be a disputed change...because it is. Why is that nonsense?

Claiming something and doing something are two different things. Apparently this is the wiki author's opinion. That doesn't make it so. If someone wants to do it then they should go ahead and do it. Unless what you mean is that begging everyone to follow you is a bad idea. The begging part is in dispute.

Ok fair enough, but then by the same token, we can also say that the assertion "it is nonsense" is simply your opinion too. Agree?

Technically rejecting an unsubstantiated argument doesn't require evidence.

You're not making sense.

The wiki says this.

Quote

Disputed

Adding alternatives to Proof of Work such as Proof of Stake. This could change core bitcoin too much, but with widespread agreement of some sort might be possible.

I think that's pretty accurate. You can disagree, but so far you haven't convinced me why you're right and the wiki is wrong.
What would you change it to?

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: BTCXE on December 30, 2014, 10:45:14 AM

sorry if this has been mentioned in this thread in the past, but how would PoS actually work ? Wouldnt that benefit existing holders of bitcoin ?

Holders - yes.
Miners - NO.

BTCXE

member

Activity: 69

Merit: 10

sorry if this has been mentioned in this thread in the past, but how would PoS actually work ? Wouldnt that benefit existing holders of bitcoin ?

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:43:15 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 10:39:28 AM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:31:38 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 09:57:02 AM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 08:18:12 AM

Quote from: b-trading on December 26, 2014, 03:50:45 AM

i was wandering in the future can bitcoin switch to proof of stake?

This is an obvious troll thread that belongs in alt coins. Bitcoin has never considered any other design. Please move this thread.

Who is this bitcoin you speak of and when can we get an official statement?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes

There is nothing stopping you from making a hard fork. This isn't even a dispute. I don't know why the wiki says such nonsense. Good luck getting miners to switch to your fork.

The wiki says adding Proof of Stake elements to the Proof of Work would be a disputed change...because it is. Why is that nonsense?

Claiming something and doing something are two different things. Apparently this is the wiki author's opinion. That doesn't make it so. If someone wants to do it then they should go ahead and do it. Unless what you mean is that begging everyone to follow you is a bad idea. The begging part is in dispute.

Ok fair enough, but then by the same token, we can also say that the assertion "it is nonsense" is simply your opinion too. Agree?

Technically rejecting an unsubstantiated argument doesn't require evidence.

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 10:39:28 AM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:31:38 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 09:57:02 AM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 08:18:12 AM

Quote from: b-trading on December 26, 2014, 03:50:45 AM

i was wandering in the future can bitcoin switch to proof of stake?

This is an obvious troll thread that belongs in alt coins. Bitcoin has never considered any other design. Please move this thread.

Who is this bitcoin you speak of and when can we get an official statement?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes

There is nothing stopping you from making a hard fork. This isn't even a dispute. I don't know why the wiki says such nonsense. Good luck getting miners to switch to your fork.

The wiki says adding Proof of Stake elements to the Proof of Work would be a disputed change...because it is. Why is that nonsense?

Claiming something and doing something are two different things. Apparently this is the wiki author's opinion. That doesn't make it so. If someone wants to do it then they should go ahead and do it. Unless what you mean is that begging everyone to follow you is a bad idea. The begging part is in dispute.

Ok fair enough, but then by the same token, we can also say that the assertion "it is nonsense" is simply your opinion too. Agree?

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:31:38 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 09:57:02 AM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 08:18:12 AM

Quote from: b-trading on December 26, 2014, 03:50:45 AM

i was wandering in the future can bitcoin switch to proof of stake?

This is an obvious troll thread that belongs in alt coins. Bitcoin has never considered any other design. Please move this thread.

Who is this bitcoin you speak of and when can we get an official statement?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes

There is nothing stopping you from making a hard fork. This isn't even a dispute. I don't know why the wiki says such nonsense. Good luck getting miners to switch to your fork.

The wiki says adding Proof of Stake elements to the Proof of Work would be a disputed change...because it is. Why is that nonsense?

Claiming something and doing something are two different things. Apparently this is the wiki author's opinion. That doesn't make it so. If someone wants to do it then they should go ahead and do it. Unless what you mean is that begging everyone to follow you is a bad idea. The begging part is in dispute.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 30, 2014, 10:31:38 AM

The wiki says adding Proof of Stake elements to the Proof of Work would be a disputed change...because it is. Why is that nonsense?

Exactly. The fact that we are discussing the possibility of it here is proof that it is disputed possibility. Bitcoin is an open source protocol and will be changed to whatever the users want it to be changed.

I suppose it is more of an inherent question of what defines "bitcoin" and some purists believe that we can never stray from Satoshi's original consensus mechanism, while other purists say we must see the forest for the trees and define bitcoin as the currency which follows Satoshi's original philosophy and if another algo accomplishes that than this is also acceptable.

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 09:57:02 AM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 08:18:12 AM

Quote from: b-trading on December 26, 2014, 03:50:45 AM

i was wandering in the future can bitcoin switch to proof of stake?

This is an obvious troll thread that belongs in alt coins. Bitcoin has never considered any other design. Please move this thread.

Who is this bitcoin you speak of and when can we get an official statement?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes

There is nothing stopping you from making a hard fork. This isn't even a dispute. I don't know why the wiki says such nonsense. Good luck getting miners to switch to your fork.

The wiki says adding Proof of Stake elements to the Proof of Work would be a disputed change...because it is. Why is that nonsense?

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 10:23:04 AM

Bitcoin cannot change to PoS. It is impossible. Why don't you understand? Bitcoin is the collective of users. Is that concept too difficult for you? Your "official statement" is a strawman.

I do not represent bitcoin but am just one user of the protocol so cannot give an "official statement" and never suggested as much.

So you are suggesting that if a majority of the developers and community decides to do a hardfork from PoW to PoS this wouldn't be called "bitcoin" because you don't agree?

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 10:02:40 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 09:57:02 AM

There is nothing stopping you from making a hard fork. This isn't even a dispute. I don't know why the wiki says such nonsense. Good luck getting miners to switch to your fork.

Non Sequitur. Pointing out that your statement is delusional and a defensive act of Repression has nothing to do with how I feel about PoS or if it is likely Bitcoin will switch consensus mechanisms.

There are plenty of developers who have considered other designs and are still considering other designs for bitcoin. This is a simple fact. I understand you will not call such a hardfork bitcoin, but you must acknowledge you are not bitcoin.

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 08:18:12 AM

Quote from: b-trading on December 26, 2014, 03:50:45 AM

i was wandering in the future can bitcoin switch to proof of stake?

This is an obvious troll thread that belongs in alt coins. Bitcoin has never considered any other design. Please move this thread.

Who is this bitcoin you speak of and when can we get an official statement?

p.s..... Don't read into my statements either as I am not advocating for such a fork.

Bitcoin cannot change to PoS. It is impossible. Why don't you understand? Bitcoin is the collective of users. Is that concept too difficult for you? Your "official statement" is a strawman.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 09:57:02 AM

There is nothing stopping you from making a hard fork. This isn't even a dispute. I don't know why the wiki says such nonsense. Good luck getting miners to switch to your fork.

Non Sequitur. Pointing out that your statement is delusional and a defensive act of Repression has nothing to do with how I feel about PoS or if it is likely Bitcoin will switch consensus mechanisms.

There are plenty of developers who have considered other designs and are still considering other designs for bitcoin. This is a simple fact. I understand you will not call such a hardfork bitcoin, but you must acknowledge you are not bitcoin.

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 08:18:12 AM

Quote from: b-trading on December 26, 2014, 03:50:45 AM

i was wandering in the future can bitcoin switch to proof of stake?

This is an obvious troll thread that belongs in alt coins. Bitcoin has never considered any other design. Please move this thread.

Who is this bitcoin you speak of and when can we get an official statement?

p.s..... Don't read into my statements either as I am not advocating for such a fork.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 30, 2014, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 30, 2014, 08:18:12 AM

Quote from: b-trading on December 26, 2014, 03:50:45 AM

i was wandering in the future can bitcoin switch to proof of stake?

This is an obvious troll thread that belongs in alt coins. Bitcoin has never considered any other design. Please move this thread.

Who is this bitcoin you speak of and when can we get an official statement?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Prohibited_changes

There is nothing stopping you from making a hard fork. This isn't even a dispute. I don't know why the wiki says such nonsense. Good luck getting miners to switch to your fork.

Topic: Proof of stake mining of bicoin - page 4. (Read 25682 times)