Proof of stake mining of bicoin - page 8.

cbeast

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Activity: 1736

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: Daedelus on December 29, 2014, 07:15:39 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 29, 2014, 07:14:39 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 29, 2014, 06:57:23 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 29, 2014, 05:16:58 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 26, 2014, 02:39:46 PM

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 08:28:13 AM

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

Your. Trolling. Is. Just. Too. Powerful... aaaarrgghhhh!!!!

Truth hurts?

Cheesy

What would you know of truth?

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: cbeast on December 29, 2014, 07:14:39 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 29, 2014, 06:57:23 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 29, 2014, 05:16:58 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 26, 2014, 02:39:46 PM

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 08:28:13 AM

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

Your. Trolling. Is. Just. Too. Powerful... aaaarrgghhhh!!!!

Truth hurts?

Cheesy

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 29, 2014, 06:57:23 AM

Quote from: cbeast on December 29, 2014, 05:16:58 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 26, 2014, 02:39:46 PM

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 08:28:13 AM

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

Your. Trolling. Is. Just. Too. Powerful... aaaarrgghhhh!!!!

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

So you are saying paintings doesn't have an asset exchange?..

I thought places to exchange shares and currencies are very important in finance... but what do I know Cheesy

You should check out the Jinn asset Grin

It is a physical ternary processor aimed at the 'Internet of Things' revolution that we are told is coming down the track with a free and paid emulator for distributed computing. It is arguably external from crypto.

It doesn't require permission from anyone to exist or progress. Each update increases its value and that of the platform it is on. Market prices can exist without regulation. And regulation doesn't prevent fear and greed volatility and unrealistic prices. I bolded it so it must be true Wink

You can ask any technical questions you have about Jinn in this thread, the dev might pick them up Cheesy

But I this is getting away from your proposition of your paintings with nothing to offer = POS platforms that support the development of real projects Grin

Q7

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Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: johnyj on December 26, 2014, 01:59:48 PM

POS=no production cost=no value

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

Fiat money can have value without production cost, because there is a law to force its circulation, and the cost to make that law can be a war, which costs millions of times more energy than POW mining

Pos concept still needs electricity to keep the computer on for a certain time period before the reward comes. There are certain systems that dictates at least minimum 2 hours so there is still some cost of production attached to here

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1010

Newbie

Quote from: cbeast on December 29, 2014, 05:16:58 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 26, 2014, 02:39:46 PM

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

I see that integrity is not the strongest of your qualities...

Quote from: cbeast on December 27, 2014, 08:28:13 AM

You don't know what a strawman is. Let's just end this. You win. I will ignore you also.

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: Daedelus on December 29, 2014, 06:31:13 AM

What features do your paintings offer that might be desirable to me? Do they offer an asset exchange? That's always a good start. 50 trillion seems a bit steep tho... I think I'll wait for the dump Cheesy

What I'm saying is your exchanges are toys made by children like Zhoutong, and Karpeles. They are insignificant in the world of finance. What they do is set unrealistic values to technologies that await official government sanction and regulation so serious exchange can happen. Until then, there is no realistic price discovery.

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

What features do your paintings offer that might be desirable to me? Do they offer an asset exchange? That's always a good start. 50 trillion seems a bit steep tho... I think I'll wait for the dump Cheesy

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Quote from: cbeast on December 29, 2014, 05:16:58 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 26, 2014, 02:39:46 PM

Quote from: johnyj on December 26, 2014, 01:59:48 PM

POS=no production cost=no value

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

Fiat money can have value without production cost, because there is a law to force its circulation, and the cost to make that law can be a war, which costs millions of times more energy than POW mining

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

Bwaaahahahahaha!

Are you saying you could create a POS coin that could stay in the top 10 for a significant amount of time doing this?

You might I suppose if you kept 100% of the coin. But then you would have to show all others on CMC are doing the same. You're a sly one cbeast Cheesy

borderline troll, the best lies are those very close to the truth Grin

achimsmile

legendary

Activity: 1225

Merit: 1000

Quote from: johnyj on December 26, 2014, 01:59:48 PM

POS=no production cost=no value

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

Fiat money can have value without production cost, because there is a law to force its circulation, and the cost to make that law can be a war, which costs millions of times more energy than POW mining

You make a common mistake here.

PoS has a production cost. To invent a working PoS system, you need to do brainwork. To generate a PoS block, you need to do CPU cycles (and you need to have stake of course).

But that doesn't matter, because production cost != value

cbeast

donator

Activity: 1736

Merit: 1014

Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 26, 2014, 02:39:46 PM

Quote from: johnyj on December 26, 2014, 01:59:48 PM

POS=no production cost=no value

If I can produce a coin without any cost, why should I pay any thing valuable to exchange it??? I will just go ahead to mine it

Fiat money can have value without production cost, because there is a law to force its circulation, and the cost to make that law can be a war, which costs millions of times more energy than POW mining

Then http://coinmarketcap.com/ gives us incorrect information... or you are just wrong.

My paintings have a price of 100 billion each. I have 500 of them. My paintings have a market cap of 50 trillion.

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: Willisius on December 29, 2014, 12:23:48 AM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 28, 2014, 09:22:55 PM

Meni's hybrid Pow PoS proposal seems great.

Has this been implemented in an alt?

What aspects of it can be implemented in bitcoin without a hard fork?

It is generally accepted that any crypto coin that uses mining algorithm that is not pure PoW will not be considered "Bitcoin". This is true even if "Bitcoin" forks into something else, if PoW is not exclusively used, it will no longer be Bitcoin

perhaps.

ultimately it is what users want and agree to.

but I think adding some poS checkpoints a la Meni
is a far less radical change than many other proposals.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

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Newbie

Quote from: Willisius on December 29, 2014, 12:23:48 AM

It is generally accepted that any crypto coin that uses mining algorithm that is not pure PoW will not be considered "Bitcoin". This is true even if "Bitcoin" forks into something else, if PoW is not exclusively used, it will no longer be Bitcoin

Bytecoin launched 2 years ago was a 100% copy of Bitcoin with another genesis block. Was it actually Bitcoin?

Willisius

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

I'm really quite sane!

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 28, 2014, 09:22:55 PM

Meni's hybrid Pow PoS proposal seems great.

Has this been implemented in an alt?

What aspects of it can be implemented in bitcoin without a hard fork?

It is generally accepted that any crypto coin that uses mining algorithm that is not pure PoW will not be considered "Bitcoin". This is true even if "Bitcoin" forks into something else, if PoW is not exclusively used, it will no longer be Bitcoin

DecentralizeEconomics

legendary

Activity: 1162

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White Male Libertarian Bro

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 28, 2014, 11:13:22 PM

I'd rather add some PoS checkpoints on top of bitcoin

I doubt that ever happens.

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: DecentralizeEconomics on December 28, 2014, 11:08:03 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 28, 2014, 03:55:31 PM

For those unaware, there have been some serious
hybrid PoW/PoS proposals for Bitcoin, which you can find here:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

If you are interested in using PoW as a distribution mechanism and PoS as a security mechanism, NXT's monetary system offers such a solution.

interesting, but I'd rather add some PoS checkpoints on top of bitcoin than use nxt as a platform to launch a new Pow currency. I still think PoW should be the main security mechanism.

plus generally, I'd prefer to go with Bitcoin over any alt as it has a much better network and adoption.

DecentralizeEconomics

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1042

White Male Libertarian Bro

Quote from: cryptogeeknext on December 28, 2014, 04:23:40 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 28, 2014, 03:55:31 PM

Protection against 51% attacks is a concern.

51% mechanism is what allows to challenge the status quo, thus enabling competition for power.
Just sitting on your money in PoW does't give you control over the system, just engaging in the competition for control doesn't bring you money as mining is normally a break-even game. Thus money and control become orthogonal, which results in a dynamic system without asymptotes. In PoS you get both in a nice single package, which saturates fairly quickly.

Hybrid systems are more tricky beasts, thus they need to be studied closely. I'm concerned that saturation in PoS aspect of the hybrid will at some point begin to negatively influence the competition on PoW side.

51% PoW mechanism is what allows malicious agents to challenge the legitimate miners, thus overpowering them via a hashpower coup d'etat.

Do you really think that the legitimate miners in Bitcoin can prevent a government from forcing their rules on the Bitcoin network? Mind you, the NSA had a $10.7 Billion USD budget in 2013. The only way to prevent such actions from external actors is via PoS.

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 28, 2014, 03:55:31 PM

For those unaware, there have been some serious
hybrid PoW/PoS proposals for Bitcoin, which you can find here:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

If you are interested in using PoW as a distribution mechanism and PoS as a security mechanism, NXT's monetary system offers such a solution.

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: bitcoin_bagholder on December 28, 2014, 10:39:22 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 28, 2014, 09:22:55 PM

Meni's hybrid Pow PoS proposal seems great.

Has this been implemented in an alt?

What aspects of it can be implemented in bitcoin without a hard fork?

This? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mc2-a-cryptocurrency-based-on-a-hybrid-powpos-system-169204

Thanks for the link, but no this is something different and
is a lot more complicated than Meni's simple idea, which
is basically just PoS checkpoints layered on top of the
basic PoW security.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake#Meni.27s_implementation

bitcoin_bagholder

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Activity: 336

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 28, 2014, 09:22:55 PM

Meni's hybrid Pow PoS proposal seems great.

Has this been implemented in an alt?

What aspects of it can be implemented in bitcoin without a hard fork?

This? https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mc2-a-cryptocurrency-based-on-a-hybrid-powpos-system-169204

jonald_fyookball

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1008

Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Meni's hybrid Pow PoS proposal seems great.

Has this been implemented in an alt?

What aspects of it can be implemented in bitcoin without a hard fork?

Topic: Proof of stake mining of bicoin - page 8. (Read 25676 times)