Topic: Proof that God exists - page 57. (Read 62273 times)

Like as you don't have to personally follow the laws of a computer program that you write, even so God doesn't have to follow the laws that He created for some universe He engineered. God is outside of cause and effect, even though He uses them directly at times.


A. We see nothing that is more complex coming from something that is less complex without some still greater complexity causing it. The complexity that causes a simple thing to become more complex than the simple thing is, may not be seen or understood clearly, but in every case it is there.

B. The fact of universal cause and effect eliminates any and all truly random action. This means that all complexity was caused to be. And again, only something more complex can produce complexity. Thus, the produced complexity is less than the complexity that caused it.

C. Since everything is an effect of some cause, the thing that set the causes in place long ago must have been super-complex to have been able to "toss" a bunch of materials and energies out there so accurately that they could produce, after countless quadrillions and quintillions of cause and effect actions, the complexity that we see in the universe today.

NOTE: The Bible suggests a less than 7,000 thousand year history for the universe. The older you suggest that the universe is, the greater God must be to produce the complexity from a set of beginning causes and effects. It's like a pool/billiards player who gets a ball into the pocket through a string of 5 balls. If he can do it through a string of 10 balls, he is a much better pool player.


Complexity exists. Nobody has found pure randomness. Scientists are great, based on how well they can find causes, not randomness. A scientist searching for pure random has a difficult time even understanding what he is looking for.

There is no scientific evidence for complexity coming from simplicity without greater complexity causing the the action of simple to complex.

The devolving universe term might be mine, but the fact of it is what entropy is all about. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, and all material is essentially energy. The thing that the energy can do is disperse and diffuse. Dispersing and diffusing of energy is well described by complexity becoming more simple. This is what entropy essentially is.



The thing that we are attempting to do is to stick to science. Since you graduated from an engineering school, you know that engineering science is quite different from theoretical science. Engineering science is the science that proves theoretical science in a practical way.

In this post, I have explained how to put the scientific laws together to prove God. I haven't done it in as detailed a way as it could be done. But I have done it a bit more detailed than many of my other posts.

Oh, because the bible says so?

The bible also says that rabbits chew their cud like a cow

The bible says unicorns exist

The bible condones slavery in no less than 5 different books

The entire old testament is filled with murder and genocide

The bible places Jesus in cities hundreds of miles apart on the same day

The bible says the earth has four corners (implying the earth is flat)

The bible says God created light... 3 days before he created the sun and stars...

According to the bible, the earth is around 5-7000 years old

The bible is wrong on so many things... Literally hundreds of provable errors and contradictions

I will gladly provide dozens of links to scholarly sources on the subject if you are interested

It is a logical conclusion based on the things that god's witnesses in the bible said and say.

Yet another claim pulled directly from your ass

Prove it... Where is your evidence?

Okay. So I did a typo. But God, Who science proves to exist, actually did examine science before He set it in place.

I'm sure we have them.  They spend their days taking medications in mental hospitals.

Well, thanks for confirming that you can't find anything to prove that the 3 laws of science that I have provided don't prove God. Because of these pages and pages of posts where you completely avoid that point, you are adding your strength to the proof that God exists.

You might have an excuse for what you are doing to yourself/yourselves. It's in the first sentence of your post I am quoting here... "I don't see any evidence for God." Since you can't stick to science, you are showing your lack of ability, thereby strengthening the science.

Thanks, again, for your confirmation that God exists.

"God examine the science"?... ... ... Are you high?

I consulted the Science God, and she said the likelihood of the Christian God existing as described in the bible is around 0.00000%... With a margin of error no greater than 0.0000%

Why are you waiting? I don't have the proof. Science does. God examine the science if you want to see the proof.

We are still waiting for you to provide this proof...

Okay. I guess we are down to it. You simply won't accept the proof that God exists.

I am a bit curious why, however. I suspect that you believe other things that are factual. I mean, if you were crossing a railroad track, and you saw a train bearing down on yourself at 60 mph, you would get out of the way as fast as you could. Although God is patient and loving, He can be way more dangerous than a train. And you are disrespectful of the nitroglycerin you are tossing back and forth from hand to hand. How utterly reckless of you.

Existence of God = scientifically proven.
Attributes of God = not proven, therefore if held, held by faith.
Faith in God = faith in proof.

yes Faith is important as it allows you trust people. Faith in God is something some people like although I wouldn't call it important.

Faith, by definition, is belief without knowledge...

If you had proof of God, it would no longer require faith... Religion without faith would be science, because it would then be based on fact, not fiction...

You must have an awfully pessimistic life to not be sure that the bank teller is going to give you your statements until you see that he has.



Exactly what I said... you don't have to believe in Him. In the face of the proof that He exists which you can't rebut, you simply are stubborn enough to not believe in Him.

Before I had them in hand I believed nothing. I didn't take the bank teller's word for it. I wanted proof. And they gave it to me.

Oh right - the longest argument since religion started: "God is better than all of us. We're all small and stupid. He knows better and doesn't have to justify in front of us." Well I don't have to believe in Him. Point.

There aren't any stubborn people where you live?


Before you had them in hand, you believed that they were accurate... at least to some extent. Then you received the statements, and your faith was turned into proof.



This is why faith is important. Nobody can understand the things of God. We barely can understand that there are things of God. Faith is all we have regarding things of God. The proof that God exists makes our faith in the things God tells us, to be stronger faith.

Oh, so now you don't have to accept proof? That a good one.

Also - I have those bank statements. So they are proof.

Proof means real things - faith means nothing. I believe Star Wars exists. Because I've seen it. No one has seen God.

Until you prove it, you ahve faith that it is true.



Nobody has to accept proof. Proof for something can be shown to a person in a thousand ways. But if he doesn't want to accept it, he doesn't have to. The only time a person really is almost forced to accept a proof is when he is in great pain or great joy. Pain and joy weaken a person's resolve to not accept truth.

Why do you not want to accept the proof that God exists? Is it simply that you are unwilling to accept? Or do you have rebuttals to the proof itself?

I never had once problems with a bank statement.
This is a real thing that I can prove.

You say that if sci-fi writers can talk about fiction that's a justification that you can too? Yes - you're a writer. Fine. But still that doesn't prove God is real.