Topic: Pros and Cons to Anon coins, Including Darkcoin / Cloakcoin, lets discuss them. (Read 8787 times)

Cool


And, I have to add more information regarding Darkcoin. I never heard that there was only a windows wallet available at the start. I know the lead dev is a dedicated linux guy and therefore I think this is not really the case. Where did you read that?

Regarding the instamine there was someone analyzing the blockchain if devs or other possible insiders were holding big quantaties or dumped them during the price rise. It's worth to read the review of Darkcoins distribution thread:  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/analysis-of-darkcoins-distribution-as-at-sept-2014-778616

Further interesting additions to this thread would be Anoncoin, Monero and Bitcoindark, if you are interested to keep this discussion going

Hello vertoe, okay i will update.

Dark Coin:
Cons:
Was instamined over 2 million DRK on launch, due to only a few having access to the windows mining client and not publicly released for some time. And due to problems with the difficulty readjustment. http://wiki.darkcoin.eu/wiki/FAQ#Was_Darkcoin_Instamined.3F

Dark Coin:
Cons:

Uses a CoinJoin clone for anon trading of coins. Which has been shown to have flaws, see “CoinJoinSudoku”. http://www.coinjoinsudoku.com/advisory/
Was instamined over 2 million DRK on launch, due to only a few having access to the windows mining client and not publicly released for some time. And due to problems with the difficulty readjustment. http://wiki.darkcoin.eu/wiki/FAQ#Was_Darkcoin_Instamined.3F

So... Have any other Coins other than XC got Anonymous transactions and encrypted chat working currently?

Surprised by the low price still on XC, anyone have any ideas why?

great info man, thanks. the one-time key feature will solve the provability problem i've seen brought up but i still can't think of the damn technical name they were using
sounds like what bitshares x is doing with a secret key to prove transaction to a third party type escrow. the whole anon scene is very exciting!

only other real issues is the bloating and (visa level) scalability that anonymint always talks about. what are y'alls plans to fix that?
the crippled hash things is fixed (right?) and doesn't concern me as it only affected like 2% from what i saw which is super fair in the cryptocoin world.
the only other thing i can think of now is the issue of inflation,  4 years pow if i'm not mistaken?
 some have also questioned the pow algo cryptonite because i guess it's new and cryptographically unproven but getting professionally audited at some point?
seems like y'all have a great team working on things and i'll definitely consider putting some btc into your project.


what's your thoughts on bitshares x anon feature titan?

http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/TITAN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDvXZMQNnhE

Delegated Proof of Stake - Let's Talk Bitcoin Episode 129
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdBpoRLmrbA&list=WL#t=726

So... Have any other Coins other than XC got Anonymous transactions and encrypted chat working currently?

Surprised by the low price still on XC, anyone have any ideas why?

Sure, no problem.

XChat and private payments are now merged into a single app!

Try it out. Feel free to message me on the XChat address and pubkey in my signature.

Both AnonyMint and I agree that pruning, in the Bitcoin sense of the term, is not possible with any of the CryptoNote currencies. That does not mean that other reductions in storage aren't possible, but there will always be a need to keep more data than with Bitcoin and its clones. Specifically, the utxoset *and* the key image set is required, and the key image set is unpruneable. The pruning that BBR does is to remove ring signature proofs, a purely linear pruning and one that I am hesitant about from a cryptographic soundness perspective.

You get a transaction ID for your transaction, most definitely. Here's a transaction of 335 XMR sent to my Monero address (49VNLa9K5ecJo13bwKYt5HCmA8GkgLwpyFjgGKG6qmp8dqoXww8TKPU2PJaLfAAtoZGgtHfJ1nYY8G2 YaewycB4f72yFT6u) on all 3 block explorers:

http://monerochain.info/tx/047c2c11632120f7cd1565c312f94f76135a45f0b2194bbe958826280878fc3d
http://chainradar.com/xmr/transaction/047c2c11632120f7cd1565c312f94f76135a45f0b2194bbe958826280878fc3d
https://minergate.com/blockchain/mro/transaction/047c2c11632120f7cd1565c312f94f76135a45f0b2194bbe958826280878fc3d

As you can see, there's no way to track where it came from, where it went to, or even ascertain the correct amount. However, the very act of being able to provide the transaction ID to me (coupled with me receiving it) is normally sufficient to prove a transaction, since only the sender and recipient will know the transaction ID and the amount.

Of course, this isn't the robust or cryptographically sound way of doing it, which is why we're adding tooling to allow someone to reveal the one-time key (which is different to the transaction ID) for their transaction, and the person (or persons) they send that key to can see the exactly details of their transaction on a blockchain explorer or similar. In other words, this functionality is inherent in the protocol and in each transaction, but we just have to give people the ability to both retrieve this information and for someone else to verify it.

ok thank you, great info. i'll have to check it all out. i believe i saw there was a bounty for cracking xc anon feature. can you post that link please. looks like i need to give xc a second look, thanks.

thanks. after reading anonymints back and forth with you guys i was under the impression that pruning the bc was questionable and he seems to think it can't be done. it way over my head but he does seem to know his stuff. to clarify he did say it's not possible right? i saw the bbr guy pruned or is pruning some stuff but anonymint claims it's not near enough, correct?

i've seen people talk about the transaction provability part several times but forget the specific phrase they used. i'll check into it and get back to you.

so if i send you some xmr for something and you say you did not get it is there a transaction hash on the bc i can point to and prove it?

thanks for your time.

Just a heads up on MasterMind710. He's responsible for the Cloak FUD subreddits and most of the baseless comments in the sections of Cloak related articles and videos. The only thing backing up his claims is his investment in DRK masternodes..

Moving forward.

1)
Since when is the right to privacy of developers a CON? Cloak developers have done more in the last month than most other coins have done in the last nine. Please explain to me how advocates of anon technology also advocate that developers reveal themselves in order for their work to be taking seriously. If you believe anon to be a negative factor in development, then the same argument will be made later down the road for merchants using anonymous currencies. Remember Satoshi was a fellow anon. Just because a new altcoin popped up with developers willing to expose themselves doesn't mean it is a recipe for success; Morever, this should not validate their work or their abilities.

I would hope the OP would reconsider his criteria for PRO/CON in relation to personal privacy.

2)
Please show me at least one alt-coin that has invested money into a high-level independent audit - closed or open. I'm not talking about Kristov Atlas, I'm saying a real authoritative audit from a place like www.opencryptoaudit.org. These places are backed up 3-5 months in advance and the costs are upwards of $50k+. It's comes out to around $5,000+ a week per auditor. It's one thing to sit in this forum and play armchair auditor it's another thing to do it for a living. I'm an investor for Cloak and I'm willing to fund 100% of the independent audit for PoSA. I doubt anyone here is willing to do the same for their investment. I'm already speaking with various candidates and their results will eventually be made public when finished. Dagger, the project lead for Cloak clocks in 20+hour days as do the others on the team. This type of commitment is all I need to validate my investment in a professional audit. The crypto space is one of the most vile and disgusting communities on the internet. Shameless promotions and baseless accusations are all the norm here. Innovation is ripped from another coin and re-branded almost the same day the source is published. It's not a surprise that developers who innovate are moving to more of a closed source development cycle to protect their investors.

Pony up and do the same for your coin because once these results come in your internal reviews won't hold a candle to Cloaks.

3)
A detailed diagram has been released that outlines the inner workings of the Proof-Of-Stake Anon (PoSA) protocol. There is a public beta available for Cloak's PoSA. Feel free to join the IRC #CloakCoin. There are 7 core developers working on Cloak in addition to 5 other developers working on supporting projects. Anyone of them is available to answer questions. There is a diagram on the way that will be easier to read for those who have trouble understanding this one.

Ooooh, this is my area of knowledge:)

Firstly, any mixing technology will also have bloat - you understand that, right? If it goes through 8 hops that's 8 entries in the blockchain. The ONLY advantage that a cryptocurrency using mixing has is that they *can* prune the blockchain (not that they have or even necessarily know how). There is no evidence to suggest that Monero can't prune its blockchain - it absolutely can. The only thing that is currently viewed as hard-to-do-maybe-to-the-point-of-being-impossible is pruning of the key image set and the utxoset, but the blockchain itself can be pruned right up to the highest block.

I also have never heard of Monero transactions being "non-provable". If that were the case your wallet wouldn't know that a particular transaction is meant for you. It does so by "proving" it is. Baked right into the protocol is a "view key" that can be used to expose multiple transactions, and each transaction has a one-time key that can be exposed to show the details of a transaction and confirm it is yours. Monero is, thus, cryptographically anonymous and unlinkable, and optionally transparent on a per-transaction basis. NB: The tooling to both reveal this and inspect it is still being written, but every transaction from the genesis block on has been functionally anonymous and has this optional transparency baked in.

How do other coins handle this? I mean, how do you reveal a transaction in Darkcoin/XC/Cloakcoin and prove it came from you?

Ah, that opinion. It's old FUD. Chaeplin didn't understand what was being tested.

Here's why.

Once again, this stuff has happened already.


To sum it all up:

Rev 2.45 (private payments).

XChat RC 6 (true P2P instant messaging with end-to-end encryption)

XC TOR Stick (releasing on Thursday; doesn't use TOR exit nodes so packet sniffers can't find you)

No idea if this is true but MasterMind710 please let's try to keep at least this thread readable and more "technical".