Pros and Cons to Anon coins, Including Darkcoin / Cloakcoin, lets discuss them. - page 4.

synechist

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To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: rethink-your-strategy on July 31, 2014, 03:02:13 PM

Quote from: synechist on July 31, 2014, 02:29:16 PM

Just go download Rev 2.45 or XChat RC 6 and see for yourself. Both work, and both are and will continue to be tested (with bounties).

I'm not sure how high your standards are but the goal is for XC to be bulletproof by Rev 3. And at their current (early) stage of development XC is solid, and working.

Lastly if you keep up with the XC team you'll know that these future-oriented announcements are not said lightly. We're under a lot of pressure because people's expectations are very high; the price will crash very hard if we're even late for an update, never mind if we were to fail. So we do not make promises we're not confident we can deliver on.

All I see on the site are binaries - is it closed source???

No.

XC recently released the code for the Rev 1 (trusted) mixer (which KeyCoin has happily adopted).

XC is currently using its Rev 2 trustless mixer (which is a world-first).

Here's XC's stance on open-source:

Q: Is XC open sourced?

A: XC is committed to the open source model. Open source code is vital for the health and advancement of cryptographic technologies, and it is a privilege to share our technical breakthroughs with a community such as this. We believe that XC's code embodies several world-firsts enabling anonymity that is scalable, mobile-friendly, POS-integrated, and is ultimately a platform upon which a broad range of Blockchain 2.0 technologies will be built.

However people’s faith in cryptocurrency projects is significantly hindered by clones. Therefore we believe that the ethical way to engage with the community is to make our code available on a delayed timeline. This way, the community will still benefit from our work, while we'd reduce the incentive for developers to flood the marketplace with clones that lack a long term future and reduce the trustworthiness of the altcoin phenomenon. XC represents several market-leading innovations, and we are honoured to make these available to the community in the near future.

http://xc-official.com/faq-page/

rethink-your-strategy

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Quote from: synechist on July 31, 2014, 02:29:16 PM

Just go download Rev 2.45 or XChat RC 6 and see for yourself. Both work, and both are and will continue to be tested (with bounties).

I'm not sure how high your standards are but the goal is for XC to be bulletproof by Rev 3. And at their current (early) stage of development XC is solid, and working.

Lastly if you keep up with the XC team you'll know that these future-oriented announcements are not said lightly. We're under a lot of pressure because people's expectations are very high; the price will crash very hard if we're even late for an update, never mind if we were to fail. So we do not make promises we're not confident we can deliver on.

All I see on the site are binaries - is it closed source???

synechist

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To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: rethink-your-strategy on July 31, 2014, 01:50:23 PM

Quote from: policymaker on July 31, 2014, 01:40:57 PM

So XC teamm announced its working on making the wallet/app Skype like, albeit totally anonymous and decentralized. Surely that must be worth some looking into. But no, lets argue whether s topic should be moderated or not...

I can announce all sorts of bullshit, doesn't make it viable, workable, or even doable. Let's wait and see if they deliver on something that works AND is cryptographically sound.

Just go download Rev 2.45 or XChat RC 6 and see for yourself. Both work, and both are and will continue to be tested (with bounties).

I'm not sure how high your standards are but the goal is for XC to be bulletproof by Rev 3. And at their current (early) stage of development XC is solid, and working.

Lastly if you keep up with the XC team you'll know that these future-oriented announcements are not said lightly. We're under a lot of pressure because people's expectations are very high; the price will crash very hard if we're even late for an update, never mind if we were to fail. So we do not make promises we're not confident we can deliver on.

policymaker

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Quote from: rethink-your-strategy on July 31, 2014, 01:50:23 PM

Quote from: policymaker on July 31, 2014, 01:40:57 PM

So XC teamm announced its working on making the wallet/app Skype like, albeit totally anonymous and decentralized. Surely that must be worth some looking into. But no, lets argue whether s topic should be moderated or not...

I can announce all sorts of bullshit, doesn't make it viable, workable, or even doable. Let's wait and see if they deliver on something that works AND is cryptographically sound.

your concerns are legit, but if you had been keeping an eye on the team for the past 2 months, like many holders did, you would know this is something not to be taken lightly. XC team is probably among the 2 or 3 teams actually treating this as legit software on the making, providing updates and delivering on several fronts, + some surprises.

rethink-your-strategy

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Quote from: policymaker on July 31, 2014, 01:40:57 PM

So XC teamm announced its working on making the wallet/app Skype like, albeit totally anonymous and decentralized. Surely that must be worth some looking into. But no, lets argue whether s topic should be moderated or not...

I can announce all sorts of bullshit, doesn't make it viable, workable, or even doable. Let's wait and see if they deliver on something that works AND is cryptographically sound.

policymaker

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Quote from: synechist on July 31, 2014, 12:52:02 PM

Quote from: illodin on July 31, 2014, 12:31:40 PM

Quote from: synechist on July 31, 2014, 12:20:44 PM

- the node will be identifiable as the sender of the fragments

- the node will not be identifiable as the originator of the payment that the fragments partly comprise

So any node within a path can divide it to further fragments? This mean that the node count involved in a path grows exponentially?

No, it just means that any given node can't tell whether what it's received is the original transaction or a fragment.

So XC teamm announced its working on making the wallet/app Skype like, albeit totally anonymous and decentralized. Surely that must be worth some looking into. But no, lets argue whether s topic should be moderated or not...

synechist

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To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: illodin on July 31, 2014, 12:31:40 PM

Quote from: synechist on July 31, 2014, 12:20:44 PM

- the node will be identifiable as the sender of the fragments

- the node will not be identifiable as the originator of the payment that the fragments partly comprise

So any node within a path can divide it to further fragments? This mean that the node count involved in a path grows exponentially?

No, it just means that any given node can't tell whether what it's received is the original transaction or a fragment.

illodin

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Quote from: synechist on July 31, 2014, 12:20:44 PM

- the node will be identifiable as the sender of the fragments

- the node will not be identifiable as the originator of the payment that the fragments partly comprise

So any node within a path can divide it to further fragments? This mean that the node count involved in a path grows exponentially?

synechist

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Activity: 1190

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To commodify ethicality is to ethicise the market

Quote from: illodin on July 31, 2014, 12:11:06 PM

Quote from: synechist on July 31, 2014, 10:21:09 AM

Quote from: illodin on July 31, 2014, 09:57:40 AM

Quote from: PowderMonkey on July 31, 2014, 09:46:48 AM

Quote from: illodin

The goal when ddos'ing nodes is to first set up many nodes yourself, then ddos the other nodes, so you can then have a control of big enough percentage of the nodes so you can spy the transactions with good enough success.

Again, since transactions are fragmented into small pieces and then sent through the network, this attack would not be effective. The attacker could try to spy the network, but the truth of the matter is that the remaining good nodes are still going to end up handling the transactions, however few they may be. But again, since every single wallet is a node, I just don't see this attack being feasible.

How can you tell which nodes are good and which nodes are spying? You can't.

You can't spy productively on XC nodes because private transactions are fragmented and because every node forwards them trustless. This creates a scenario where there's no telling if the sender/recipient of a fragment is the original sender or final recipient, and there's no telling whether the amount sent is the whole amount.

Furthermore since fragments can be sent, even non-private transactions become "private" in this respect, since the amount sent could be a fragment, and so a spy has no grounds to assert that the amount sent/received is the total amount, or that the sender/recipient is the original sender/final recipient.

If the attacker is controlling nodes A and B, and they both receive fragments (= XC encrypted messages?) from the same IP at the same time, he knows that is the IP of the sender, not another node forwarding fragments. And if the attacker is controlling all nodes in a path starting from A or B, he knows the sending and receiving addresses. Or is this totally wrong?

Hmm... let's say that an attacker controlling two nodes receives fragments from a single other node at the same time:

- the node's IP will be concealed due to it being either on TOR or something proprietary which I can't reveal yet. (TOR is current - the XC TOR Stick is releasing on Thur next week; it's its own OS, runs as a TOR node, and does payments and XChat. However in future there are other, even more secure plans...)

- the node will be identifiable as the sender of the fragments

- the node will not be identifiable as the originator of the payment that the fragments partly comprise

- the node will not be identifiable as the sender of the payment

- if it's a message rather than a private payment, it's not forwarded but sent directly to the recipient and encrypted from end to end, so to snoop on it you'd need to decrypt it (which is computationally infeasible).

- even if attacker nodes happen to receive all the fragments of a transaction, there will be no way to know that this is the case, and so the amount sent will not be ascertainable.

illodin

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Quote from: synechist on July 31, 2014, 10:21:09 AM

Quote from: illodin on July 31, 2014, 09:57:40 AM

Quote from: PowderMonkey on July 31, 2014, 09:46:48 AM

Quote from: illodin

The goal when ddos'ing nodes is to first set up many nodes yourself, then ddos the other nodes, so you can then have a control of big enough percentage of the nodes so you can spy the transactions with good enough success.

Again, since transactions are fragmented into small pieces and then sent through the network, this attack would not be effective. The attacker could try to spy the network, but the truth of the matter is that the remaining good nodes are still going to end up handling the transactions, however few they may be. But again, since every single wallet is a node, I just don't see this attack being feasible.

How can you tell which nodes are good and which nodes are spying? You can't.

You can't spy productively on XC nodes because private transactions are fragmented and because every node forwards them trustless. This creates a scenario where there's no telling if the sender/recipient of a fragment is the original sender or final recipient, and there's no telling whether the amount sent is the whole amount.

Furthermore since fragments can be sent, even non-private transactions become "private" in this respect, since the amount sent could be a fragment, and so a spy has no grounds to assert that the amount sent/received is the total amount, or that the sender/recipient is the original sender/final recipient.

If the attacker is controlling nodes A and B, and they both receive fragments (= XC encrypted messages?) from the same IP at the same time, he knows that is the IP of the sender, not another node forwarding fragments. And if the attacker is controlling all nodes in a path starting from A or B, he knows the sending and receiving addresses. Or is this totally wrong?

FreedomCoin

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Freedom to choose

Makes sense, and for the sites that use escrow they do not want their used coin to collapse and then people asking what happened to the funds.

oblox

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Quote from: FreedomCoin on July 31, 2014, 11:12:04 AM

Does anyone know if Darknet sites are accepting these Anon coins?

Probably not going to see a ton of acceptance until sources are released and the code vetted that they do in fact provide the anonymity that users are looking for.

Sleepyx

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Quote from: FreedomCoin on July 31, 2014, 11:12:04 AM

Does anyone know if Darknet sites are accepting these Anon coins?

Theres one that says they will add them, both dark and cloak, once they are open source, they can't trust anything while its closed.

FreedomCoin

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Freedom to choose

Does anyone know if Darknet sites are accepting these Anon coins?

FreedomCoin

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Quote from: ?? on ??

There was a clear talk that both coin community's agreed that we would make a external thread so we can talk everything inside this that have to do with Darkcoin and cloakcoin because of the fud and spam we/you get in the main thread and the darkcoin "jokers" are crying why we delete their posts.

Yes you are correct, that was the plan. But policing the thread is not my style, nor can i do so on a work day handling everything else i am doing. Sorry for changing the direction of this thread.... Feel free to create a new self moderated thread and link it here.

rethink-your-strategy

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Quote from: battbot on July 31, 2014, 10:26:20 AM

Quote from: rethink-your-strategy on July 31, 2014, 10:21:20 AM

Why reinvent the wheel? Just use Electrum (open source!) or SPV.

Probably because XC offers both completely anonymous transactions and instant p2p encrypted messaging. In other words, XC offers a complete platform that protects one's rights to privacy. Bye NSA.

I don't think you understand what the adults are talking about. Go watch your cartoons and we can talk later, ok?

hoertest

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Quote from: FreedomCoin on July 31, 2014, 10:35:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

Yeah , i didn't want to spam but thats how i understood it also, you seen my pro con list for OP FreedomCoin?

FreedomCoin

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: FreedomCoin on July 31, 2014, 10:35:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

Then you don't understood why we made this thread in the first place....

Since this is not a moderated thread its going to be too difficult policing what people are discussing. I do not have the time for that, if you feel that is an important discussion please create one, and feel free to post a link in this thread so others can discuss Dark and Cloak coin centric issues.

Yes originally i was going for just Cloak and Dark, but stopping others from talking about other coins is too difficult.

Having an open discussion across all Anon coins in a thread isnt a bad idea, that way they can all be compared in the same place.. instead of having to thread jump between 5 or more coins.

policymaker

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Quote from: FreedomCoin on July 31, 2014, 10:35:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

always nice to know ur OP isnt braindead

Sleepyx

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Activity: 112

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: FreedomCoin on July 31, 2014, 10:35:51 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

This is not a discuses anyone more ... everyone is just throwing his coin in here and trying to advertise so their coin gets pumped how pathetic is this really... Please stay on the topic and let us only focus on DARKCOIN and CLOAKCOIN. Can we do this ? Thank you

I feel we should discuss any Anon coin as long as its related to similar protocols so they are comparable.. If you want a thread on a one vs one, then i suggest you create a self moderated topic so you can do that.

Then you don't understood why you made this thread in the first place....

lol

Topic: Pros and Cons to Anon coins, Including Darkcoin / Cloakcoin, lets discuss them. - page 4. (Read 8787 times)