Topic: Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s - page 64. (Read 96804 times)

There you go BA, someone you have verified as a customer, outright showing a lie coming straight from your account.  Care to make a comment?

 
 

simply because that is seemingly the excuse to delete posts.  they concocted an excuse and used it, seems to me.  oldest trick on the planet.


and you're right, not handing over an order number is not evidence that you are not a customer, it is evidence that you've been paying attention to their behavior and statements. 

Still not sure why anyone in this thread is being called a non-customer.  BA is basing that off of assumptions because we won't tell them order information because they have threatened in the past to withhold compensation or move troublemakers to the back of the order line.  So any sane person would keep that completely hidden.

And yes, you are correct, that is no way to deal with customers.  Then again, BA is barely a real company, so it kind of makes sense in a backwards kind of way.

This anonymous scum piece of shit that represents Black Arrow publicly here is basically proving unequivocally that we have no option but pursue them legally until every last piece of their business is destroyed. Trolling customers so that they engage in angry outbursts here is not going to save you from the consequences of your criminal actions.

 

Thanks for this comment. I agree 100%.

Refund in the form of chips including paying for delivery

The only person here who is conspiratorial is you, for thinking that anyone who speaks negatively of the infallible, impeccable and omnipotent blackarrow must be getting paid by a competitor. No competitor would pay others to speak negatively of you because your reputation is well known. Other companies are selling their product without needing to shit talk the shit stain of a company Merlion Holdings aka Blackarrow aka Alexandru Ion Sovu - international criminal.
And I fucking dare you to delete this. I'll repost it a million times.

Hey BA, I am not engineer (then again neither are any of you), but at last count just the people who have posted in the last 12 hours total more than 5 as per your post, and everyone single one of them is unhappy and want their money back.  The only justification for that is that your product is crap.

"at least one competitor is trying to keep away customers from us: Individuals on this forum which are not even our customers (Eg. Pentax, DebitMe, and few others) are probably being paid to spend their full time here to flood this thread with misleading information."


Bull-oney.  

I would suggest that you might be "projecting" BlackArrow.  In case you are unfamiliar with this concept here is a definition for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

"Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude......"

Replace the word 'rude' in the paragraph above with "misleading" and you might get a better picture of what I'm saying could be the case here.


I am, unfortunately, a customer of Black Arrow.  BA is making similar statements on their forum whereby anyone that makes a post that may not be all that flattering is apparently a paid shill.  They ask for order numbers and when they don't get them that is apparently their basis for assuming that person is not a customer.  More like those people are not foolish enough to open themselves to potential punitive actions, as others have pointed out already.

I wish it were not the case that I was a customer also, trust me on that, BlackArrow.   And I am being paid by no-one, which I have already stated to you in a PM when you made this same ridiculous accusation.   I also clearly stated via PM that all I wanted was a refund, as promised some time ago at this point.  There is no other motivation whatsoever.

Let's revisit some of your statements to see who may be misleading customers, as you are apparently accusing me of this.  These are your statements, let's remember, which I have attempted to post as accurately as I can by just pasting them in, so you do not accuse me of "flood(ing) this thread with misleading information".  If there is an error, feel free to correct me, as I'm sure you will.

Anyhow, let's move on with citing some of your posts.  I'm not going to comment on them, as I don't want to be accused of "flood(ing) this thread with misleading information".  These are your words, not mine.

The BlackArrow account on this forum, which I assume is one person and associated with Black Arrow Limited, although I'm obviously not certain about that, (from here on I will assume it is one person, although I guess it may be multiple users), posted statements pertaining to a price promise multiple times, and assured people that the February delivery date was conservative, also multiple times.


Here are some of those on price:
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________


Re: Black Arrow announces the launch of a new Bitcoin ASIC
September 21, 2013, 01:24:45 PM
Reply with quote  #49
Quote from: Puppet on September 21, 2013, 01:16:53 PM

I guess the obvious next question is, what happens when the price on X1 drops by 30%, and I ordered just one?

You'll get 2 pcs. In general we'll round up in customer's favor.

Quote
ITs not a matter of budget, but profitability. But like I said, thats not specific to your company, but to the market at large.  

We are making the most efficient ASIC possible and there's nowhere to go to from 28nm until 2015. We're offering all preorders a better deal that we'll have when we'll deliver the ASICs and we're guaranteeing that we'll offer the best price on the market.

If our ASIC will not be profitable, no ASIC will be and bitcoin mining will stop.
_______________________________________________________________________________ ___________


  
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 23, 2013, 06:26:26 PM
Reply with quote  #96
Quote from: User705 on September 23, 2013, 06:19:34 PM
I'd like to make sure I understand what you are guaranteeing.  You are saying that if I preorder now I am guaranteed a price 25% below market price.  How will market price be defined?  

Yes, you are guaranteed to get a price 25% below the market price ($/ghash) at the time of shipment.
And yes, we will keep our prices below every other company.

Bottom line is, whoever trusts us now, we promise that will help them to mine profitably after February as well. If you keep supporting other companies who have ripped you off until now, you'll barely get your ROI back.
_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________

and then you reiterated this again many months later:
_______________________________________________________________________________ ______

Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $1.99/GH/s, miners from $2.97/GH/s
April 11, 2014, 01:39:25 AM
Reply with quote  #3351
Dear Customers,

We just want to let you know that we have not forgotten our promise and we will match in Ghash any competitor at the time of shipping. There is no point in discussing yet what extra hashing power you will receive as we have not started shipping yet.

ASIC price match announced in this thread is part of our promise.

Regards!
_______________________________________________________________________________ ________  




As then, on July 6 via the update:

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/bitcoin-miners-progress-update-06-july-2014.html

"Our current design will not be able to directly compete on price with competitors’ design......"





OK, let's see some statements made about shipping on time:
_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________  
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 23, 2013, 02:31:17 PM
Reply with quote  #83
Quote from: topminingcontracts on September 23, 2013, 02:18:47 PM
I insist with my question

"I am interested,

Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?

TMC"

We are the only company from this forum (as far as I know) that has delivered the products on time. If we said that we'll deliver then, we will. What other kind of guarantees can be offered?

We could have "forced the truth" and say that we'll deliver in Oct-Nov, but we prefer to sell less and keep our reputation unharmed.
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________

  
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 22, 2013, 07:26:45 AM
Reply with quote  #60
Quote from: Simon Barber on September 22, 2013, 06:34:05 AM
Chips and systems out at end of Feb 2014 - that means tape out sometime in December 2013, which means you've only just, or have not yet started physical design. Without being well into the physical design stage how do you know what your power or performance numbers are going to be with any confidence?

We've started the design in June. The only difference between us and our competitors is that we do not give unrealistic time frames which we know we cannot meet.

We are confident that we will deliver sooner but we do not make promises that we might not be able to fulfill.
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________





Then there are the multiple ship dates.   From what I remember the various shipping dates put out by Black Arrow, (not necessarily the BlackArrow account on this forum), looked like this:

End of February.  

Then it was May 1.  

Then it was Minions on May X, shipping will commence the next day.  Remember that one?  That was my personal favorite.  

Now the most current goal seemed to be everything out the door by end of July.  That's not looking very likely either.











and you are accusing me of misleading customers,  while BA seemingly claims that it has not.   I'll let people decide for themselves if that is an accurate assessment of what has happened here.

Yeah, assuming that's intentional, that was a really really stupid move on their part.

They've basically tacitly admitted that what they're doing is illegal by refusing the communicate, and basically force the customer's hand to seek recourse outside of talking directly to them.

Now are they going to delete the "misleading" posts about support login accounts not working?

I will get a fu*king medieval on his ass in Reading     

Yes. the password doesn't work and I requested a new password to be send and this option doesn't seem to work neither. They obviously did it on purpose to avoid receving new tickets and dealing with promised refunds.

They just make things even worse for themselves (or actually for himself). I'm seeing solicitor on Monday

I won't post exact details of my order and refund request becasue I don't want to be punished by BA.

It seems that few hours ago they already changed my password on https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/support/index.php?/Base/User/Login

so I can't access my account there to see the submitted tickets

I ordered X3 in the end of November and requested the refund in May.

I'm personally not quite ready to escalate this to actually serving papers, but within the next several days I'm going to get the ball rolling filing official complaints with Hong Kong and the US FTC, as well as the ICANN ecommerce organization. If anyone has any information on how to do so in Shenzhen SAR that would be very helpful too. I recommend everyone else do so, because we might actually accomplish something if at least dozens of complaints suddenly start appearing before the relevant authorities. BA has solicited funds for this project fraudulently based on a complete misrepresentation of the project and we have every right to pursue them through official channels, as their behavior has made it abundantly clear that they will simply not respond to direct inquiries.

Don't you guys have any pitchforks?  Time for people to man up and do something about all of these scammers in our community.

"at least one competitor is trying to keep away customers from us: Individuals on this forum which are not even our customers (Eg. Pentax, DebitMe, and few others) are probably being paid to spend their full time here to flood this thread with misleading information."


Bull-oney.  

I would suggest that you might be "projecting" BlackArrow.  In case you are unfamiliar with this concept here is a definition for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

"Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude......"

Replace the word 'rude' in the paragraph above with "misleading" and you might get a better picture of what I'm saying could be the case here.


I am, unfortunately, a customer of Black Arrow.  BA is making similar statements on their forum whereby anyone that makes a post that may not be all that flattering is apparently a paid shill.  They ask for order numbers and when they don't get them that is apparently their basis for assuming that person is not a customer.  More like those people are not foolish enough to open themselves to potential punitive actions, as others have pointed out already.

I wish it were not the case that I was a customer also, trust me on that, BlackArrow.   And I am being paid by no-one, which I have already stated to you in a PM when you made this same ridiculous accusation.   I also clearly stated via PM that all I wanted was a refund, as promised some time ago at this point.  There is no other motivation whatsoever.

Let's revisit some of your statements to see who may be misleading customers, as you are apparently accusing me of this.  These are your statements, let's remember, which I have attempted to post as accurately as I can by just pasting them in, so you do not accuse me of "flood(ing) this thread with misleading information".  If there is an error, feel free to correct me, as I'm sure you will.

Anyhow, let's move on with citing some of your posts.  I'm not going to comment on them, as I don't want to be accused of "flood(ing) this thread with misleading information".  These are your words, not mine.

The BlackArrow account on this forum, which I assume is one person and associated with Black Arrow Limited, although I'm obviously not certain about that, (from here on I will assume it is one person, although I guess it may be multiple users), posted statements pertaining to a price promise multiple times, and assured people that the February delivery date was conservative, also multiple times.


Here are some of those on price:
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________


Re: Black Arrow announces the launch of a new Bitcoin ASIC
September 21, 2013, 01:24:45 PM
Reply with quote  #49
Quote from: Puppet on September 21, 2013, 01:16:53 PM

I guess the obvious next question is, what happens when the price on X1 drops by 30%, and I ordered just one?

You'll get 2 pcs. In general we'll round up in customer's favor.

Quote
ITs not a matter of budget, but profitability. But like I said, thats not specific to your company, but to the market at large.  

We are making the most efficient ASIC possible and there's nowhere to go to from 28nm until 2015. We're offering all preorders a better deal that we'll have when we'll deliver the ASICs and we're guaranteeing that we'll offer the best price on the market.

If our ASIC will not be profitable, no ASIC will be and bitcoin mining will stop.
_______________________________________________________________________________ ___________


   
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 23, 2013, 06:26:26 PM
Reply with quote  #96
Quote from: User705 on September 23, 2013, 06:19:34 PM
I'd like to make sure I understand what you are guaranteeing.  You are saying that if I preorder now I am guaranteed a price 25% below market price.  How will market price be defined?  

Yes, you are guaranteed to get a price 25% below the market price ($/ghash) at the time of shipment.
And yes, we will keep our prices below every other company.

Bottom line is, whoever trusts us now, we promise that will help them to mine profitably after February as well. If you keep supporting other companies who have ripped you off until now, you'll barely get your ROI back.
_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________

and then you reiterated this again many months later:
_______________________________________________________________________________ ______

Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $1.99/GH/s, miners from $2.97/GH/s
April 11, 2014, 01:39:25 AM
Reply with quote  #3351
Dear Customers,

We just want to let you know that we have not forgotten our promise and we will match in Ghash any competitor at the time of shipping. There is no point in discussing yet what extra hashing power you will receive as we have not started shipping yet.

ASIC price match announced in this thread is part of our promise.

Regards!
_______________________________________________________________________________ ________   




As then, on July 6 via the update:

http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/bitcoin-miners-progress-update-06-july-2014.html

"Our current design will not be able to directly compete on price with competitors’ design......"





OK, let's see some statements made about shipping on time:
_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________   
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 23, 2013, 02:31:17 PM
Reply with quote  #83
Quote from: topminingcontracts on September 23, 2013, 02:18:47 PM
I insist with my question

"I am interested,

Any guarantee to be delivered during Feb-14?

TMC"

We are the only company from this forum (as far as I know) that has delivered the products on time. If we said that we'll deliver then, we will. What other kind of guarantees can be offered?

We could have "forced the truth" and say that we'll deliver in Oct-Nov, but we prefer to sell less and keep our reputation unharmed.
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________

   
Re: Black Arrow announces 28nm 64Ghash Bitcoin ASIC @ $1.99/Ghash
September 22, 2013, 07:26:45 AM
Reply with quote  #60
Quote from: Simon Barber on September 22, 2013, 06:34:05 AM
Chips and systems out at end of Feb 2014 - that means tape out sometime in December 2013, which means you've only just, or have not yet started physical design. Without being well into the physical design stage how do you know what your power or performance numbers are going to be with any confidence?

We've started the design in June. The only difference between us and our competitors is that we do not give unrealistic time frames which we know we cannot meet.

We are confident that we will deliver sooner but we do not make promises that we might not be able to fulfill.
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________





Then there are the multiple ship dates.   From what I remember the various shipping dates put out by Black Arrow, (not necessarily the BlackArrow account on this forum), looked like this:

End of February.  

Then it was May 1.  

Then it was Minions on May X, shipping will commence the next day.  Remember that one?  That was my personal favorite.  

Now the most current goal seemed to be everything out the door by end of July.  That's not looking very likely either.











and you are accusing me of misleading customers,  while BA seemingly claims that it has not.   I'll let people decide for themselves if that is an accurate assessment of what has happened here.

What's that arrogant reply supposed to mean?!

We want our refunds. Period

exactly.  they use people not providing an order number as basis for saying they must not be a customer.  I've seen the same thing on their forum.

Anyone remember this?:

_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________
Re: Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $1.99/GH/s, miners from $2.97/GH/s
February 21, 2014, 04:59:52 AM
Reply with quote  #2660
Who wants to hear a funny story?
So, I PMed blackarrow on ecointalk asking him if he could please address my questions in this thread when he posts his weekly update:
http://ecointalk.net/topic/523-question-for-blackarrow-to-answer/

Instead, he asks for my order number. He asked me previously when he refused to answer my questions because he wanted to confirm that I was indeed a customer. So I gave him my order number to prove I'm a paying customer and for him to address my questions. Instead, the next PM I receive from him says he's cancelling my order. Never did I once ask him to cancel my order. And he still hasn't been back online to see my PMs telling him not to cancel my order and that all I wanted was answers.
And now bobsag3 has been ignoring my PMs all day as well.

Funny story, huh?

Edit : Blackarrow finally got back to me and said my order won't be cancelled.javascript:void(0);
_______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________




Edit:  FTR I am a customer of these people unfortunately and am not being paid by anyone, although I doubt anyone bought that silliness anyhow.  All I want is my money back, like everyone else, and stated that in a PM to BlackArrow well before they put that post up.  

BLACK ARROW LIMITED - List of Documents

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/black-arrow-limited-list-of-documents-716310