Awwww poor Sonny! So violated by the US government, including all the judges involved in his case. I felt so sorry for poor Sonny that I immediately ordered OVER 9000 BFL Minirigs to ensure his new venture will become a huge success.
I'm only worried a lill for Sonny now. Because since he's already experienced first hand how the US government cares not for borders or legality and will ruthlessly go after the weak victims if they so desire... one can only imagine what they will do to poor Sonny once they decide bitcoin is a threat and bitcoin mining must be stopped... poor, poor Sonny...
Topic: Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence - page 14. (Read 146793 times)
October 24, 2012, 02:26:55 AM
October 24, 2012, 12:01:06 AM
Usually I don't respond to unfriendly posts, but maybe this one needs a bit of addressing. We've had the honor of having Sonny in our corporation
for the past year. He is a bright and honorable person who had come face to face with strong forces behind the scenes without knowing. Many movies
have been made to try and demonstrate how governments and lobbying powers operate. They can kill, sabotage, prosecute or pretty much do anything
they desire without consequences as they have the power, money and weapons to make their point.
The United States Government does not recognize international bounderies when it comes to its interests and demands. The attack on the PirateBay
servers in Sweden is a good instance. Should the owners of PirateBay been Americans, I'm sure they'd already been serving for life in some prison in USA,
under charges of money-laundry, tax evasion (ads on the site), child pornography and so on and so forth. It's easy to hurt people who are powerless.
Even in France this may happen, eventhough on a much smaller scale ( I can't recall any at this point ).
{Snip}
Regards,
Nasser
Cross-posting here, in case anyone missed it. Clearly, Sonny did not scam anyone but was a victim of evil government. Also clearly, not only that poor Sonny was and is an honest man, but so are other BFL employees like Nasser. There is no way he would be defending past actions of a crook.for the past year. He is a bright and honorable person who had come face to face with strong forces behind the scenes without knowing. Many movies
have been made to try and demonstrate how governments and lobbying powers operate. They can kill, sabotage, prosecute or pretty much do anything
they desire without consequences as they have the power, money and weapons to make their point.
The United States Government does not recognize international bounderies when it comes to its interests and demands. The attack on the PirateBay
servers in Sweden is a good instance. Should the owners of PirateBay been Americans, I'm sure they'd already been serving for life in some prison in USA,
under charges of money-laundry, tax evasion (ads on the site), child pornography and so on and so forth. It's easy to hurt people who are powerless.
Even in France this may happen, eventhough on a much smaller scale ( I can't recall any at this point ).
{Snip}
Regards,
Nasser
Wow, I had no idea Sonny was so harrassed by the evil government. I've started a charity fund for him. Donate what you can to 15buHwfhJaAnrJAgdQGrr38abXJvWZnQA6. I'll see that all the donated funds, minus a small management fee, make their way to Sonny.
October 23, 2012, 06:32:53 PM
Usually I don't respond to unfriendly posts, but maybe this one needs a bit of addressing. We've had the honor of having Sonny in our corporation
for the past year. He is a bright and honorable person who had come face to face with strong forces behind the scenes without knowing. Many movies
have been made to try and demonstrate how governments and lobbying powers operate. They can kill, sabotage, prosecute or pretty much do anything
they desire without consequences as they have the power, money and weapons to make their point.
The United States Government does not recognize international bounderies when it comes to its interests and demands. The attack on the PirateBay
servers in Sweden is a good instance. Should the owners of PirateBay been Americans, I'm sure they'd already been serving for life in some prison in USA,
under charges of money-laundry, tax evasion (ads on the site), child pornography and so on and so forth. It's easy to hurt people who are powerless.
Even in France this may happen, eventhough on a much smaller scale ( I can't recall any at this point ).
{Snip}
Regards,
Nasser
Cross-posting here, in case anyone missed it. Clearly, Sonny did not scam anyone but was a victim of evil government. Also clearly, not only that poor Sonny was and is an honest man, but so are other BFL employees like Nasser. There is no way he would be defending past actions of a crook.for the past year. He is a bright and honorable person who had come face to face with strong forces behind the scenes without knowing. Many movies
have been made to try and demonstrate how governments and lobbying powers operate. They can kill, sabotage, prosecute or pretty much do anything
they desire without consequences as they have the power, money and weapons to make their point.
The United States Government does not recognize international bounderies when it comes to its interests and demands. The attack on the PirateBay
servers in Sweden is a good instance. Should the owners of PirateBay been Americans, I'm sure they'd already been serving for life in some prison in USA,
under charges of money-laundry, tax evasion (ads on the site), child pornography and so on and so forth. It's easy to hurt people who are powerless.
Even in France this may happen, eventhough on a much smaller scale ( I can't recall any at this point ).
{Snip}
Regards,
Nasser
October 23, 2012, 08:39:14 AM
Why is this thread still alive? It's just become a trolling/pissing contest. Simply put, if you don't trust/like BFL, don't buy a BFL.
Scams detract from the Bitcoin solution generally and thus directly harm me personally as someone who both holds BTC and appreciates the potential that the solution offers.
I agree and I'm all for a rational discussion on things, but this thread has long jumped the shark already and is just turning into a sniping contest.
October 22, 2012, 08:39:46 PM
If BFL's ASIC campaign is not a scam then at least a thread such as this might coax out a little more transparency which is probably not a bad thing especially since they ride on the back of an open-source project. Or it might not.
It hasn't so far. BFL is just as secretive with their inner workings, and Inaba just as dismissive.
October 22, 2012, 07:24:23 PM
Why is this thread still alive? It's just become a trolling/pissing contest. Simply put, if you don't trust/like BFL, don't buy a BFL.
Scams detract from the Bitcoin solution generally and thus directly harm me personally as someone who both holds BTC and appreciates the potential that the solution offers.
I think it quite relevant that potential scams are explored and I appreciate everyone's input. If there is a legitimate complaint about the community generally it is that they/we are not willing enough to explore potential scams.
If BFL's ASIC campaign is not a scam then at least a thread such as this might coax out a little more transparency which is probably not a bad thing especially since they ride on the back of an open-source project. Or it might not.
October 22, 2012, 06:31:43 PM
Why is this thread still alive? It's just become a trolling/pissing contest. Simply put, if you don't trust/like BFL, don't buy a BFL.
October 21, 2012, 10:22:58 PM
Inaba, where's your professionalism?
"One cannot have lost something which he never had in the first place"
- probably some guy somewhere or something
October 21, 2012, 06:02:06 PM
Psy and Epoch are correct.
So your policy is that you'll refuse refunds whenever you feel like it. Quality policy you have there.
October 21, 2012, 03:00:37 PM
Think I will add this information to what my attorney general has already got..... He did refund my money but it was only cause I got the Gov involved.
You're lucky. Their official policy is pre-orders are "non-refundable".
No luck involved. Email [email protected] and we will happily refund your order at any time. It's always been that way.
We've had, hmm, 6 order cancellations in the past 3 months. Each time, the person emailed and we cancelled the order and refunded the money immediately. BitcoinINV never once asked for a refund.
Even if everybody (except BitcoinNV) is being 100% honest and up-front in everything they say, the question remains about when the 'fallback' would be exercised. Would it be when they run out of money, or when outflows threatened to exceed inflows? Time will tell, or at least will tell what the answer probably would have been.
October 21, 2012, 12:41:46 PM
Psy and Epoch are correct.
October 21, 2012, 11:35:31 AM
Think I will add this information to what my attorney general has already got..... He did refund my money but it was only cause I got the Gov involved.
You're lucky. Their official policy is pre-orders are "non-refundable".
No luck involved. Email [email protected] and we will happily refund your order at any time. It's always been that way.
We've had, hmm, 6 order cancellations in the past 3 months. Each time, the person emailed and we cancelled the order and refunded the money immediately. BitcoinINV never once asked for a refund.
October 21, 2012, 10:12:43 AM
If that is truly your policy, why does your website state otherwise?
That seems consistent with their policy of having conflicting information available for nearly everything.
October 21, 2012, 08:51:15 AM
Think I will add this information to what my attorney general has already got..... He did refund my money but it was only cause I got the Gov involved.
You're lucky. Their official policy is pre-orders are "non-refundable".
No luck involved. Email [email protected] and we will happily refund your order at any time. It's always been that way.
We've had, hmm, 6 order cancellations in the past 3 months. Each time, the person emailed and we cancelled the order and refunded the money immediately. BitcoinINV never once asked for a refund.
If that is truly your policy, why does your website state otherwise?
I would say it's a "Cover Your Ass" policy.
October 21, 2012, 06:03:43 AM
Think I will add this information to what my attorney general has already got..... He did refund my money but it was only cause I got the Gov involved.
You're lucky. Their official policy is pre-orders are "non-refundable".
No luck involved. Email [email protected] and we will happily refund your order at any time. It's always been that way.
We've had, hmm, 6 order cancellations in the past 3 months. Each time, the person emailed and we cancelled the order and refunded the money immediately. BitcoinINV never once asked for a refund.
If that is truly your policy, why does your website state otherwise?
http://www.butterflylabs.com/faq/
Quote
Can I get a refund on my pre-order?
Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late October or early November 2012. Your pre-order with payment confirms your place in line for delivery once we begin shipping. Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.
Butterfly Labs, INC. is accepting pre-orders for ASIC based products, expected to begin shipping in late October or early November 2012. Your pre-order with payment confirms your place in line for delivery once we begin shipping. Payments made for pre-orders of ASIC based products now under development should be considered non-refundable until products begin shipping or 1 January 2013, whichever is earlier.
October 21, 2012, 01:47:03 AM
Think I will add this information to what my attorney general has already got..... He did refund my money but it was only cause I got the Gov involved.
You're lucky. Their official policy is pre-orders are "non-refundable".
No luck involved. Email [email protected] and we will happily refund your order at any time. It's always been that way.
We've had, hmm, 6 order cancellations in the past 3 months. Each time, the person emailed and we cancelled the order and refunded the money immediately. BitcoinINV never once asked for a refund.
If that is truly your policy, why does your website state otherwise?
October 20, 2012, 07:02:05 PM
Think I will add this information to what my attorney general has already got..... He did refund my money but it was only cause I got the Gov involved.
You're lucky. Their official policy is pre-orders are "non-refundable".
No luck involved. Email [email protected] and we will happily refund your order at any time. It's always been that way.
We've had, hmm, 6 order cancellations in the past 3 months. Each time, the person emailed and we cancelled the order and refunded the money immediately. BitcoinINV never once asked for a refund.
October 20, 2012, 06:09:59 PM
Think I will add this information to what my attorney general has already got..... He did refund my money but it was only cause I got the Gov involved.
You're lucky. Their official policy is pre-orders are "non-refundable".
October 20, 2012, 04:09:03 PM
Inaba, where's your professionalism?
October 20, 2012, 11:31:38 AM
To sum it all up, this is how I see it:
- BFL refuses to answer customers' concerns (the "town hall" thread)
- their owner/executive was convicted of serious crime involving scams, and is now collecting funds in violation of his parole
- they are illegally collecting investments for the development of a product under the pretense of "pre-orders"
- that same BFL has delivered FPGAs before
- people now have several other competitors to choose from
- BFL has hired an incompetent person as a representative, who acts unprofessionally, offends customers in public, derails threads, and generally does damage to the company's PR
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