Topic: Re: Updated Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns - page 153. (Read 17849 times)

He should keep having the add, it is his thread and he is doing a good work for the community.

campaign CLOSED LUCKYFLOP

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lucky-flop-signature-campaign-closed-888257

hello ..
just for your information,, that satoshibet will cease to participate in the signature campaign ..
They will not accept new members ..
the final payment will be made Sunday or monday tomorrow ..

+1

My vote is also in NOOO
Secondly i never saw any add here that looks scammy or any other ponzi site.
He give lots of time to this thread there must be a compensation i think for his time.

I voted "no."

Why? The ad is non intrusive, and mitchelł puts quite a lot of time into this. He should get some compensation, which is the ad money. It's not like he has ads spammed everywhere, one ad is OK.

Ha, that says something about how much the ad might be worth to potential purchasers too.

When you say you don't see it as a big issue and have vote accordingly, that sounds like a vote for "i don't care".  But it seems a little ambiguos.  English is famous for a thing sometimes called "negative raising" where people say things like:

I don't think she should do that.

And they mean:

I think that she shouldn't do that.

So by this pattern, it's entirely clear whether you mean "I see it as not a big deal."  Or "I don't see it as a big deal".  If you catch my drift.

To be honest, I didn't even notice the ad until I read this last page.  I had to go back to the OP specifically for it...and I have used the OP a few times (at one point I spent an hour looking at the various linked threads).

I don't see it as a big issue and have voted accordingly.

^ Don't see what the problem is. I visit the OP sometimes and don't even notice the ads. If jbrnt didn't mention what the current ad is, I wouldn't even know. So what if the person who created this thread is getting something out of it? Sure we all contribute to it. But only one person can edit the OP, and is held responsible for it if there are problems. It's a useful thread and it needs work to maintain, so I don't mind him getting something in return.

i voted "remove".  While I'm no where near as passionate as sed about this issue, I also stopped visiting the OP of this thread after ads went up.  I still check in occasionally on the last few pages to see if anything interesting is being discussed.  my o my, look at al the hot shit going down these days. 

Urgent news for participants of Satoshibet campaign.
It will be closed tomorrow.

Great, last time I checked was ~4-5 hours ago.

It has been fixed recently. Account is active and pending payout since 22 Jan already paid.

Coinichiwa seems to have problems with payment currently. As I posted on their thread:


There has been no answer in the 24 hours since then. Not sure if you want to add a mark for this or not. I will wait till monday and see what happens.


Id have to dig a bit, but I am sure I can find the donation address for the work that Mitchell puts into the thread and be as ashamed about you leeches as I was the first time.


Edit (thats from August 2014 almost 6 months into the thread):

I'm going to defend Mitchell here.

First things first, let me make a point I consider both valid and important: Mitchell's role as a local board moderator (staff) and role as the manager of this overview thread are entirely unrelated. He did not grant himself permission to put the ad in, in fact, you technically do not need to ask theymos before putting an ad in the OP of a large thread like this, because it is forum policy that substantial contributing posts can have ads in. It is just recommended you do to avoid to trouble. Just because he is staff does not mean forum policy no longer protects him. Moving on:

Donations are minuscule, if any, for running this thread. The advertisements bring in all of $4 every 10 days for Mitchell. It is definitely not a high-profit, high-competition, cut-throat business. If he puts in the hours to manage this thread and is getting such a tiny amount as reimbursement, who cares if he has a break?

But that's mostly rabble: Here's my main point.

bitcointalk.org actively places advertisements in threads and collects money using an almost identical system. 25% of ad revenue is distributed to mods based on their activity. Well, why is this a point, you may ask? The money is distributed based on staff activity - if a staff member takes a break, they're going to receive less BTC and it balances out fairly.

If Mitchell was truly neglecting this thread, no-one would advertise on it, and he would make no BTC from it. It would have either died long ago or been crushed by a new competitor. The sole fact the thread is alive shows that work is actively being done on it. He does not need to cater to your every whim instantly unless you're the one paying the bills. And I'll bet you aren't. You've even stated yourself that you don't view the OP, so we can draw from that that you are not clicking the advertisement and contributing to its efficiency. Obviously, if the ad has a more noticeable effect on sales, people will pay more for it. You do not have the right to complain when you are not contributing whatsoever to the thread, unfortunately.

And either way: We are not playing a game of morals and ethics. We are playing the game of real life, where time is a finite resource. People are not forced to do volunteer work.

Please explain how. If it's because I get paid by Theymos, should I deny the payment for what I do? Would you do that? Updating this thread takes quite a while. The updates I just did took me 20 minutes and they are 4/5 small ones. I re-read the thread, skim for stuff that I missed, etc.

Yes, you gave me the basic idea for a table and a lot of people have contributed towards it, giving me good ideas, etc. I'm very grateful for that, because it has helped (and still helps) a lot of people. If you don't agree with what I do/did, I could redo the table design so that you aren't involved with the idea anymore. A whole new design, extra information, etc.

I do not endorse any ads, I just put up the ad from the person who won, if it's allowed inside this forum.

---

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Here is a poll about the ad: Should I remove the ad. I will let it run till tomorrow and decide based on the votes.

I agree that I do not like commercialising this community thread and someone is profiting from this. Being a staff makes this worse.

The success of this thread comes from the overview table and the original idea and design is not even OP's. It is mine. He cannot claim rights to something that is not his in the beginning. I suggested the table format and coded it (on page 3), thinking I am helping the community. Now it is helping a staff member to profit from other member's views.

If the ads are helping bitcoin startups for free, it would be ok. Now, a staff member's thread is advertising accounts trading!

Thanks again for the reply.  You've done a great job of addressing my points this time.  So thanks for that.  It's unfortunate that you're using this puerille "you didn't read" line so often.  As I basicaly addressed your previous post line-by-line, I think it's quite clear that read carefully.



Well, I can "read again" but if I do that, I'll see the same thing I saw the first time which was "feel free to start your own thread but don't copy my thread".  I think you can see how vague this is, especially in contrast to what you said this time, which is much clearer.  In your second statement you differentiated between the content of the thread and the design or layout, which apparantly you consider to be some kind of intellectual property.  While it's not clear to me how a simple table is some kind of intellectual property, I'll leave this because as I already said, I'm not interested in starting my own thread on this.


I think I made it clear that I don't read the first page since it was commercialized, I used to read it.  And I think I also made it clear that this situation made me unhappy.  That's it, I'm simply commenting on the state of affairs as I see them.  In fact, as I said, it's not that I see a problem with having to wait, it's that I see a problem with you commercializing the work of others in that you ask people to pre-format the info for you to add to the OP, then you complain if they do it wrong, then you say "hold on I'm busy" when there's work to do.  Again, I'd withdrawl all of these points immediately if you hadn't commercialized the thread.  But you're absolutely right that I'm not one of your customers, so my opinon is just that, an OP-ED on the state of affairs.  Nothing more, nothing less.


Nice!  I appreciate (kind of) your transition from "that argument is false no matter what!" to "invalid argument".  It's a step in the right direction.  It's a shame you keep going back to this "if you read what I said" bullshit, but whatever.  It's still nice that you actually addressed the question which was who gets to decide which threads can be commercialized.  If it's true that you're not part of the group which decides this, that certainly aids your position that there's no conflict of interest here.  Nevertheless, given that you admittedly work for the people who do decide this, I'm not so sure this is such an open-and-shut case as you assert.


Again, nice job using the "invalid argument" term.  This is your best rebuttal yet, it's concise and to the point and it addresses the relevant claims.

Thanks for the enlightening discussion.

Read again, I told you that you are more than welcome to start another thread, without an ad. You just can't use the current thread design. I got permission from Rannasha to take over and use his design. I have since then adapted it to my personal liking and added the overview table.

If you don't read the first page, why do you care when I update the OP? People don't seem to mind that they have to wait a bit from time to time (well, except for you obviously). If anyone has a problem with it, do tell me. If a lot of people have a problem with it, I will figure out a system to improve my update speed and keep the thread even more up-to-date. People have lives and if I'm busy, I'm busy.

Invalid argument. I don't have the authority to give permission to commercialize a thread, which you would have known if you actually read what people said/I said. Only Theymos and Badbear can do so. If they want me to remove it, I will, because they are the ones in charge and they are my superiors. I'll never be in that position either, because I do not want to be an administrator. Being a local moderator is more than enough for me.

This is an invalid argument, because I don't have the power to give such permissions.

So many haters coming down on my for my opinion.  I'm going to ignore them and reply to Mitchełł.

First, thanks for the reply.


I'm confused, you want me to start another thread and you say I'm not allowed to start another thread?

Either way, I'm not starting another thread.  I'm just asking questions and I'm representing a real point of view which may be a minority, but it still exists.  When you chose to commercialize this thread, you moved from the class of "community service" to the class of "commercial endeavour".   As I've also said, I stopped visiting the front page of this thread when the adverts appeared.  This is because I decided that I didn't like that you took over a free community thread, ran it for long enough to centralize its importance, and then commercialized it.  So, yes, it rubs me a bit of the wrong way when you say things like "listen folks, I'm busy don't expect any updates".  IMO, you lost your right to say that sorta stuff when you commercialized this thread.  Again, "go start your own thread" isn't applicable to me because I found it was very very easy to live without the basic table on the OP of this thread. I simply don't use it and that's fine.


Let me tell you something that you probably will not accept from me.  Asserting that "your argument is false, now matter what" is not how you debunk an argument.  For one thing, arguments aren't true or false, they're either convincing or not convincing, based on whether or not they contain flaws.  To show that someone's argument is flawed you have to show where they made a logical error, or asserted an unfounded fact, etc.  If you can show that someone's argument is flawed, that will work better than simply asserting "your argument is flawed!" 100% of the time.  The former is respectable, the latter is mere bluster.

With respect to my argument (which was really phrased as a question), I said:

1) You were given special permission by staff to commercialize your thread
2) You are now staff
3) As staff, you are now in the group that gives permission to commercialize your thread. 

This is tantamount to staff granting itself special permission to commercialize a thread based on the fact that they are staff.

As I understand your rebuttal, you say:

a) I got the permission before becoming staff.
b) I am paid more from the ad than I am from being staff.

For me, (a) is much more powerful than (b).  (b) simply means that you've got a real interest to protect in keeping your ad and that if you can remain staff and therefore remain in the decision seat for deciding whether you can keep your ad, that's more important than the money you'd make as staff without the decision power that comes along with it.  With respect to (a), it seems to me that unless you were given permission to commercialize this thread for life, at some point the decision might come up for review, and if you're on staff and deciding it, then that's the conflict of interest that I referred to.

Best regards!

Your friend and lover,

sed

Marco said in his bit-x sig campain thread that he is considering member rank. But i dont think he will add them because their sig is not much attractive. Its my openion might he add them.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10217195

Lets hope for member rank

~~ OTS ~~