Topic: Read before investing in SuperNet ICO - page 5. (Read 8733 times)

In reply to anotheranonlol, specifically (and smooth/fluffypony) - IMO there is nothing wrong with someone holding a percentage of what is their brainchild. IF I do a start up, even the VCs understand this. If I am not vested, I don't think I can give it all to an idea. Its rather how jl777 will hold 10% of SuperNet (a very huge amount in itself - we balk at 1% pre-mine), get public money for funding and performance linked bonus on top of it.

Define signficant. If you mean thousands, yes we own thousands. If you mean hundreds of thousands (~10%+), we certainly don't. If you mean tens of thousands (~1%), I would guess it is probably within that range, but where exactly I have no idea.


We'll have to agree to disagree. In this space where 99% of coins are obvious pump-and-dump scams, avoiding such scams is more important to smart investors than people investing enormous amounts in something you believe in.

There are other motivations available that can't be gamed by scammers. In particular we are all working on the project because we find it interesting and has long term potential to turn into something important and valuable (which likely would, or at least could, enrich us personally, but not particularly through direct holdings of large portions of the oustanding coins).


You are assuming we have both the net worth and the investment philosophy that would make investing more than we have a prudent step (or that we don''t care about such prudence). This is false.


You have not heard that from the core team, at least not other than fancifully. In fact you've probably heard that it could very well fail and be worthless more often from us.

What others believe or say or do with their money we have no control over.

 

Honestly don't believe that nobody in the core team owns any sort of significant amount.

0.3% is not that much no, but bear in mind we have seen claims XMR can/will surpass bitcoin, will reach a market cap of 35 + billion USD, is the only contender for global dark liquidity etc, This is coming from senior established members, not just newbie pupers.  Unless the core team is not quite as optimistic as those particular XMR proponents and disagrees with some of those particularly vocal supporters. (hopefully) 0.3% will be plenty.

But I understand the importance of trying to make it appear that none of the early members managed to buy in a large amount early, or that they somehow 'control' fair percentage of the total supply between them.

Things like core team members going for lunch at one of the biggest whales home really do not do favors for perception so it makes sense to try and cultivate the image of equal footing and not some kind of monero cabal ala bitcoin foundation carefully going forward.

Personally I would think the opposite. It makes total sense for you to be investing in something you believe and are helping to shape.  I much prefer knowing the core team has put their money where their mouth is. Doesn't necessarily mean because they hold big stacks a pump n dump is in order.  

 To know that nobody out of the team believes strongly enough in the project they are so fervently advocating to invest any significant amount in seems quite strange.

I only had them because mining was fairly easy the first 1-2 weeks, and I sold a lot since that was my intent at the time. (I have mined and sold many new coins.) Once the difficulty shot up (I guess when dga got involved), I stopped mining, and I don't think I have ever bought any XMR, but it is possible

Given the lack of instamining, the rapid rise in difficulty, and the relatively rapid (though somewhat slower) rise in price, it wasn't possible for anyone to accumulate a large amount of the coin without buying them. And while most of the core team are comfortable enough to work for free (though only part time), we're not that well off.


No but large insider holdings are a necessary ingredient of a pump-and-dump scam. Since we don't hold a lot we can't be a pump-and-dump scam.

And no, I don't think a few thousand or even 10K are really a "large" portion. 1% of the coins is now over 30K. I certainly don't own anywhere near that and I doubt the rest of the team does either.

I think the thread has proven one thing. While jl777's dealings and association are questionable at best. SuperNet supporters are a bunch of morons. My initial post, says:

"Disclaimer – These are just facts followed by conjecture (you are free to have your own too). Not an investment advice. Read through; if you don’t understand ask and someone might be able to help you with the research.
In the end, do whatever you want with your bitcoin, it is yours and you should decide."

Conjecture - "an opinion or theory so formed or expressed; guess; speculation."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conjecture

ie the OP, me, understand I don't have all the cards or information. Claims about pumps are at best claims. Instead I get people calling me liar, having mal intent, FUDer, credibility of "6 activity".  This to me shows they are either morons with zero comprehension or people who turn into blind army when they read something negative about their "favourite" coin.

If it was not for the shady dealings, I think people should be weary of being lumped with such morons. Next thing you know they will overwhelming vote 100% release to jl777 if he decides so.


(Edit: Another conjecture from the thought flow process. Ripple also had these so called gateways. doesn't it? Gold, and some btc gateways too ie 1 (ripple) *n (number of coins/assets) gateway. So basically jl777 is using a trick he learned with ripple, applied to NXT with NXT gateway (another 1*n gateway) and now Supernet which will be an m*n gateway (m and n representing number of coins). He is totally not a "one trick" pony).

Can you elaborate why you believe all of the above statements to be true in plain english without resorting to childish name calling?

If wanting to know the truth makes me a "do gooder" then so be it.

I said you weren't telling the truth in the post where you claimed that "he has asked for 500 BTC for "2000 BTC worth" of his own assets." when you know that isn't what is happening. Do you feel that your post that I called out as not truthful was a honest post that attempted to portray the situation accurately?

So what are you implying? You can see the UV radiation that jl777 is emitting or are you some kind of animal that just happens to invest in crypto?

The idea is that you know that you're spreading FUD and therefore dont want to risk losing the reputation you have built up with your real account. That is why a lot of FUDsters use new accounts instead of the aged accounts.

Didn't smooth have 20k XMR in April?
weren't you along with other core members buying in qtys of 2k, 5k etc back in the OTC days?. Doesn't seem like such a tiny portion. You can't prove or disprove for sure the current holding.
Not that it matters.. why should core team not be incentivized to drive the value up with a benefit to them, it's not criminal?

Now this is getting tiring. Read the damn fucking post again -
Disclaimer – These are just facts followed by conjecture (you are free to have your own too). Not an investment advice. Read through; if you don’t understand ask and someone might be able to help you with the research.
In the end, do whatever you want with your bitcoin, it is yours and you should decide.

If anyone is as moron or challenged you are and can't look up the word "conjecture" then I can't help it. If I wanted to spread FUD, I could have put this on self moderated and let Monero folks have a field day. Think about that before you open you dumb mouth about FUD.

for everyone asking for my real BCT. Here's something to chew upon: Do facts need a face to be true? If yes, then you are truly someone I tip my hat to.


Now I am getting tired with your BS arguments. first you are a concerned "objective" observer now you are "SuperNet" defender. First of all, read the thread again you moron, it says things being said are conjecture based on facts. Thats how I interpret them, you are free to do one interpret them as you will. Still I get a moron like you who goes from calling someone a liar, then yourself as a do gooder "objective" observer to calling someone a liar again. Make up your damn mind. Whereas, you could have stated "I disagree and this my interpretation of events" and done with it, instead of calling liar (note, see how I did not respond to someone who said "I did not understand SuperNet" on the other thread...because that is fine by me. Everyone has their opinion and I don't need to go name calling because he disagrees with me.) The second post did try to reason with you but you came around again accusing me of lying. Hell, I have repeatedly said its your money, do what you want. I am not recommending another coin or stopping people from buying. See how the thread says "read before.....", not that "Supernet is a scam". These are facts and my conjecture, had I any mal intent the thread would have been "self moderated" ever thought of that? You are welcome to present facts or conjecture as you wish (and did towards the end of the post where you made own conjecture about people knowing of jl777's holding. Thats your belief and I can't be a moron like you and ask proof of that cause we both know that cant be proven).

In the end,  you even outdid everyone with your moronic postings. So how do you expect me to get "evidence" of pumps you dumb idiot. I don't have access to his accounts -- again conjecture....if it was facts it would have been filed in facts section. So if you want to deny facts or present your understanding as you did in the last para, its fine by me.  

This was a pretty reasonable post up until the point where you started calling superNET a con and James a crook with no evidence.

A couple of things though, if superNET goes down, none of the coins involved will go down. Each coin is still its own independent blockchain.

And any smart coin community will focus on adoption. I believe that's the most important thing. SuperNET shouldn't hinder adoption in anyway, just provide access to services and technologies that are available.

The latin word adequatio is both a word and a concept. As a word, it refers to the idea of adaquacy or being adequate. As an epistemological  concept it conveys the crucial realization that we can only see the things we are equipped to see.  Humans cannot see ultraviolet light, while some animals see it perfectly well.

So many of these trolling posts suffer from exactly this problem. The posters are either unable or unwilling to research what the supernet actually is. And thus they literally cannot see it. Which does not stop them in the least from pontificating about it. If this was the 16th century and there was firewood handy i imagine things would be interesting indeed.

I might as well cross post this here. It has to be pretty clear to anyone reading this thread what's going on here. Short on facts big on rambling on and large text. Seems like a real intelligent group of people this thread as attracted.



You've done nothing but make ad hominem attacks and unsubstantiated claims while linking to your post and spreadsheet. Here's a short list of the claims you've made with no evidence what so ever:


Not true as shown above in an eariler post.


Evidence? And as far as I know any coins held by superNET are to be held indefinitely. Certainly any sale of assets in the form of coins will go to a vote.


Again, evidence?


Now you're accusing him of falsifying volume and inflating the price of his assets. Evidence?


...


So now the voting on BTER where people have openly purchased ~3k BTC of TOKEN is rigged?


What are you talking about here? He's the one saying he owns the assets and he's often mentioned how much the total asset value of his shares of his assets are. Why don't you think it's a good thing for someone who's producing something that drives the price of an asset(technology, trading, providing a service, whatever) to own a large part of that asset? Isn't economic incentive a good thing?

All you've done is attacked James by accusing him of doing the things above but the only evidence you've presented thus far is your spreadsheet that outlines which parts of jl777 assets are owned by other jl777 assets.

Anyone who's read the superNET thread knows that James holds large portions of his assets and the all of his assets are cross owned in a multitude of ways. It says so right in the superNET OP. Where did he claim otherwise? And why is that necessarily a bad thing? He's the one developing the technologies or choosing what coins to invest capital in those assets, so owning the assets that he's attempting to increase the value of makes sense from an incentive standpoint.

Regarding the typos in the PDF, that document wasn't written by James. If you're trying to claim some intentional deception on the part of James you're going to have to try harder.

This is quite a low level FUD, why didnt you try to make up something smarter with that 430 posts acc? What a waste!


Epic research sir, well done, lol   Go on a little more and you've earned your place at trolls.thesupernet.org.


Btw, isn't it quite common that a company that issues assets keeps some for themselves? When I issue assets for my great new idea and sell 100% of my idea to investors, I got money but my idea is owned by other people, doesnt make sense to me. James has millions already so what what is suggested here is that xx million fiatcoins arent enough for him, no, he wants xxx million. He develops a revolutionary idea of uniting crypto against fiat and government control, but not for the place in the history books or to make the world a better place, no, he is willing to drop all that to earn more $$$. Could be but personally, as I am following his moves and his thousands of posts since months, I have 0 reason to believe that.

Money doesn't make people happy, making other people happy and changing the world to the better makes people happy. That is his motivation, not to have lets say 200 million USD instead of 20 million USD. Actually studies say that once a person has ~8000 USD (or something like that) per month any more money has little to no effect on happiness.

Btw, everyone who does not believe that supernet will succeed can make a lot of money when it fails, just bet against it!
https://www.fairlay.com/predict/registered/new/supernet-in-top-10-of-coinmarketcap/ https://www.fairlay.com/predict/registered/new/supernet-in-top-5-of-coinmarketcap-before-2016/.

I have been thinking the same as OP since the dawn of Supernet but don't have the skills to state as clearly as he did.
The real goal of crypto in general should be mass adoption by the general public. Tbh these anonymous shitcoins are all a fu**ing waste, whether it be BTCD, XMR, DRk, whatever,.. These are only worth to people because they can make money out of them by PnDs.
Current state of the crypto industry is just like the early online poker industry. People used to take advantage during the early days and made millions. But there were also people who lost millions. Now you don't see that in the online poker industry because people have become smart and usually take a single step after measuring five steps ahead of them. In four to five years only genuine cryptos will survive and really bear fruits and all this anonymous craps will be long gone.

Look at Bitcoin, Guldencoin, Saffroncoin, Cannabiscoin and probably some others like NEM which are going to be released etc. Do you know what I see in them? I see real world use and adoption.

Just ask yourself why we need Supernet? If the Supernet core goes down, then all the coins and services related to it will go down. Altcoins in general will cripple and thereby affecting Bitcoin too. Why cant alts exist separately? If all of them merge into Supernet then we'll not see any new ideas or development. For example can you merge all the fiat under one network? Can you bring USD, GBP, Euro, Yen, Dinar, CNY, INR, under one hood? NO!!! Because each of them has their pros & cons. If USD takes a hit we don't see CNY or INR taking a hit. In fact in the current recession where the western currencies took huge blows CNY, INR have shown 4-5% growth. This whole idea of Supernet is hugely flawed. I will reiterate this "If Supernet goes down what will happen to the partner coins" And history has shown us again and again that nothing is invincible in this tiny speck of a world.

In short Supernet is a huge fundraising by jl777 for jl777  himself. He has thought of a very long and time consuming con. He is not your usual small kind of crook. He's in for the biggest scam in crypto history. He's letting you invest in his own assets and coins which we owns hugely. And when the right time comes he will get rid of them. This is the reason I chose not to invest in this.
Again this is just my advise. Take this as a pinch of salt. After all it's your Bitcoins. Peace.

Dude have the balls to stand up and identify yourself with your real nick if you set out to ruin another man's. Don't hide behind that pathetic logic you gave in your first post. Man up.

I don't give a shit if he is uber super duper jumper etc member. There are reasons for not going on NXT forums. You know why?Because it is a pool waste of trolls and shills who will die over NXT. It is a known fact that jl777 has lobbied for accounts being banned. So much for discussion?

So either you refute the facts, or go troll some where else.

I love the smell of Troll in the morning.