Topic: Reddit’s science forum banned climate deniers. - page 70. (Read 636445 times)

With such idea you can never prove anything. never ever!

Fine, but that's not what you said.  Or what I said for that matter.

I cannot teach you if you are not prepared to learn.  LOL.


Maybe.  I'll pop out a hypothesis since that is one of the things that I enjoy doing:

 - Media coverage of a fashion show --> demand

 --> Some factory in Indonesia ramps up production --> Some power plant operates at higher capacity producing more waste-water.

 --> Some algae bloom changes ocean currents around some island.

 --> butterfly effect sparks and el-nino in the pacific --> global temps up that year (or la-nina --> down if you prefer.)

If you like the hypothesis, you can keep it.  Do some calcs and measurements and maybe it will produce enough interest for me to re-visit it, else, like most of my hypotheses, I'll never think about it again.

There does appear to be a statistically significant correlation between the length of women's skirts and global temperature.  But correlation is not causation.

Do fashion designers in Paris actually drive global temperature?

That would be utterly surprising, probably not true, and does not seem to be in observation.

The amount of CO2 released by humans burning fossil fuels is in the order of 4 percent of that released by other sources annually.  Even IIPC concedes this.  It seems that the 'thermally induced component' of this natural 96% of CO2 release not only exists but dominates.  Although this natural liberation (and absorption) are not as well understood as they could be, many of them which come to mind (aerobic life respiration, the decomposition of carbon containing minerals, etc) would seem likely to have a thermal influence.

---

To Moloch's points, it should be noted that there are a huge number of mechanisms at work and all with a different frequencies.  The summation of all of these can sort of be tugged on mathematically.  It seems that annual processes have a significant impact (and that can be seen on the higher resolution yearly cycle of CO2 concentration growth) but there are much more long scale things which seem to be in effect as well.  A guess (of mine) would be some process like shells being formed in warmer relatively CO2 rich oceans, covered with sediments, and having their carbon content sequestered as chalk.

I would anticipate that if by 'animals' one is referring to macroscopic creatures and their respiration, the effects on CO2 would be almost completely negligible.  In this domain, microorganisms probably completely dominate, and that is extra true if one consider those which help macroscopic creatures by living in their gut.  I'd retract this guess somewhat if one considers that macroscopic can and do change certain environments on a broad scale (e.g., grazing herds impacts on grasslands, humans engaging in agriculture of various types, etc.)

There is no significant correlation between CO2 ppm and atmospheric temperature whether measured by thermometers or satellite.

Regarding the possibility of a "Mini Ice Age" the way to evaluate that is to look at what solar scientists say on the matter.  They say this is a serious possibility.

Interesting dissonance between this and the screaming hysteria of the Warmers, which just gets louder.

Best to deal with reality than fantasy, of course.

And what is that?

The Dark Side of Clean Energy in Mexico






A palm hat worn down by time covers the face of Celestino Bortolo Teran, a sixty-year-old indigenous Zapotec man. He walks behind his ox team as they open furrows in the earth, a seventeen-year-old youth trails behind sowing white, red, and black corn, a ritual of ancient knowledge shared between local people and the earth. Neither of the two notices the sound of our car as we arrive “because of the wind turbines,” says Teran. Just fifty meters away, a wind farm has been installed by the Spanish company Natural Gas Fenosa. It will generate, at least for the next three decades, what governments and energy companies have declared clean energy.

Along with this farm, twenty others have been set up forming what has come to be known as the Wind Corridor of the Isthmus of Tehuantepec, located in the southern Mexican state of Oaxaca.  The Corridor occupies a surface area of 17,867.8 hectares across which 1,608 wind turbines have been installed: The Secretary of Tourism and Economic Development of Oaxaca (STDEO) claims that they will collectively generate 2,267.43 megawatts of energy per year.

The Tehuantepec Isthmus stretches just two hundred kilometers from the Pacific to the Atlantic Ocean, making it the third narrowest strip of land connecting the Americas after isthmuses in Nicaragua and Panama. In this area, mountains converge to create a geological tunnel which funnels extremely high speed winds between the two oceans. Energy investors have put their eyes to the region after the government of Oaxaca claimed that the region is capable of producing 10,000 megawatts of wind energy per year in an area of 100,000 hectares.

“Before, I could hear all the animals living in the areas. Through their songs and sounds, I knew when it was going to rain or when it was the best time to plant. Now though, it seems the animals have left due to the wind turbines,” Teran shared with sadness and rage in his voice.

What Teran does not know is whether the turbines, built in accordance with the Clean Development Mechanism (MDL in its Spanish acronym), as defined in the Kyoto Protocol, are generating alternative energy which will actually help to reduce the greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions of large corporations and industrialized countries. The main objective of these polluters is to prevent global temperatures from rising 2°C before 2100, according to the 21st Session of the Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change(UNFCCC), better known as the COP 21, which took place in Paris, France from November 30th  to December 11th, 2015. “I don’t know what climate change is or about the COP. I only know that our ancestral lands are being covered by these turbines,” said Teran.

More:
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/34623-the-dark-side-of-clean-energy-in-mexico

If you are speaking about the 800 year lag between rise in temperature and rise in CO2 of the ice core samples...

That is likely cause by... it takes ~800 years for animals to populate the newly warmed areas of the planet...

You see... animals exhale CO2... and as the temperature increases, they have more land mass, and begin to spread out and populate the new regions... as they multiply, the atmospheric CO2 increases...

Atmospheric CO2 throughout history has been a relationship between the number of animals (CO2 sources) and plants (CO2 sinks)... with perhaps the occasional volcano chiming in every few hundred/thousand years


That being said, the same ice core samples show that the Earth has previously had CO2 levels as high as 4000-8000ppm (10-20x today's value), while the temperatures were lower than today... I really don't see a correlation beyond animals exhale CO2...

Couldn‘t organize a piss-up in a brewery

FEBRUARY 15, 2016

“Never in the history of humanity has a crusade been launched on such absurd premises or by such incompetent leaders.”
– Société de Calcul Mathématique, SA

The slogan, ‘We have to save the planet‘, overrides all rational thought and analysis. Poisonous power has made despots weak. No civilization before ours has ever tried to influence the state of the planet; it takes a hefty dose of arrogance that only the twenty-first century could muster. The nine previous crusades aimed to conquer the Holy Land and chase out the infidels – simple, focused ambitions that were thwarted every time.

The tenth crusade, the crusade against CO2, is planetary. When you look at the intellectual level of the people who made the decision (who couldn‘t organize a piss-up in a brewery), you might chuckle to yourself that it is the crusaders who are going to suffer. But the intellectual satisfaction is short-lived. We, ordinary French citizens, are the crusaders, and the destruction of our economy concerns us all.Jobs are not being relocated; they are being destroyed.

Our economy has gradually become more and more like that of an underdeveloped nation, with a return to the sharing of goods that civilization had made available to each and every one of us.Car-sharing is vaunted as a virtue (‘it‘s good for the planet‘), but it means that people are buying fewer cars. Recycling is recommended (‘it‘s good for the planet‘), but it means that people are buying fewer new products. We are encouraged to use less lighting in public and private spaces (‘it‘s good for the planet‘), but the economy is suffering.

See entire white paper:

http://www.scmsa.eu/archives/SCM_LBRCV2_2015_12_EN.pdf

I think a mini ice age is a possibility.

Cold records shattered across northeastern US

Record-shattering cold in Ontario

Ottawa snowfall record tumbles

-114 Wind Chill at Summit of New York mountain

Is just some recent headlines I see. It´s a process. Won´t happen overnight of course.

Then three weeks ago it was snowing in Vietnam, 180 miles south of Saigon. This is the tropics. It never snows there, last recorded snowfall was 350 years ago.

Edit, It should be Hanoi, don´t know what got me to write Saigon. It was at 18 degrees north.

There does seem to be a correlation, and it is that CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere lag temperature increases in the environment.  The relationship on relatively short time periods is basically that CO2 is the integral of temp.  This matches observations, and is scientifically coherent (to my way of thinking.)  As an example, if you have a pan overheating on a stove, the longer it sits there undetected, the more smoke you will find in the kitchen.  Eventually the pan runs dry and the smoke finds a way out (settles as soot, finds an open window, etc.)  These absorption mechanisms may or may not reach an equilibrium before the production of smoke from the pan ceases due to exhaustion or someone turning off the burner.

The idea that CO2 lags temp is distinctly unhelpful to those seeking to control energy use on the planet with the excuse that they are saving it so scientists who do such work are unwelcome and unfunded (or worse.)  TNothing stops me from paying attention to their results however.  Yet.  Ultimately, as the bogus theory of anthropogenic global warming becomes to farcical to be swallowed, TPTB will need shift to another excuse.  To bad for them that they did not just stick with the global cooling scare they were using when I was a kid and build some sort bogus science tax scheme around that.

I just think it´s staggering. All life is based on plants and they love CO2. Which is supposed to be a major threat to civilization and probably the future of mankind. I just hope that these world savers don´t decide that the exhalation of CO2 by  humans and animals is such a threat to life that it necessitates mass extermination.

Cause it's not like we've found any kind of correlation between CO2 rates and temperature 

 
See more on Know Your Meme

The reason they do this is that "global warming/climate change" are very dull and uninteresting subjects.  So they have to be dressed up in things that people do care about to make people even listen to the hype.

This is important to maximize the incomes streams and keep the entrenched warmers happy.

for the newcomers..

Yeah, they´re logical as in thinking that CO2 is some sort of pollution. Maybe they slept through Biology 101 and the rest of it as well.

It's more the other way around no?

I mean I think it's the racists that twisted it, climate change people are more logical than that whatever you say.

Well, I don´t care about that. By crazy cult I was referring to this climate change craziness. They even twist it into racism.

I don't understand what you're talking about dude ^^'