Religion and Morality. - page 5. | Bitcointalksearch.org

BADecker

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Quote from: GideonGono on November 02, 2019, 11:51:40 AM

Quote from: BADecker on October 08, 2019, 07:31:42 PM

Quote from: Magkirap on October 08, 2019, 06:49:22 PM

Quote from: Malsetid on October 03, 2019, 03:34:45 AM

Hey guys. I've been watching a lot of debates on youtube about this topic where theists, apologetics, philosophers, scientists, agnostics and atheists discuss whether religion has a monopoly over what people perceive to be right or wrong. Guys like WLC, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Frank Turek, Richard Dawkins etc. Go after each other's throats to prove their points and honestly, i think every one of them has a valid argument.

What do you think?

Everyone had their own set of beliefs so it was not surprising thar their arguments are both valid.

In a common law (lore) court in the USA, whatever anybody says is true. If there are differences, the court is there to find out which truth is reality.

Cool

How we know the truth if they believe that they beliefs was true? In fact, they have different beliefs but they have different think that they say the truth even in others was not. How we can say who is the true and who is not if a person have different beliefs? How the argument work?

That is what the court does... finds the truth. Once it is adjudicated by the jury, the answer the jury gives is the final answer. But...

While a jury verdict in a common law court can't be changed, somebody can bring up a different question that is similar to the first, and essentially makes the first verdict of no effect depending on the new question ruling with a new jury.

In addition, if somebody thinks the jury members acted wrongfully (in bad faith), he can take them to court individually and get damages. But he better be right, because if he loses, his damages and fines will increase.

Cool

GideonGono

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Quote from: BADecker on October 08, 2019, 07:31:42 PM

Quote from: Magkirap on October 08, 2019, 06:49:22 PM

Quote from: Malsetid on October 03, 2019, 03:34:45 AM

Hey guys. I've been watching a lot of debates on youtube about this topic where theists, apologetics, philosophers, scientists, agnostics and atheists discuss whether religion has a monopoly over what people perceive to be right or wrong. Guys like WLC, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Frank Turek, Richard Dawkins etc. Go after each other's throats to prove their points and honestly, i think every one of them has a valid argument.

What do you think?

Everyone had their own set of beliefs so it was not surprising thar their arguments are both valid.

In a common law (lore) court in the USA, whatever anybody says is true. If there are differences, the court is there to find out which truth is reality.

Cool

How we know the truth if they believe that they beliefs was true? In fact, they have different beliefs but they have different think that they say the truth even in others was not. How we can say who is the true and who is not if a person have different beliefs? How the argument work?

Zanzibet

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we all have different views and beliefs depending on how we were raised but the ultimate religion lies in how we perceive things as right or wrong. Religion is not there to control but to guide and redirect your opinions.

BADecker

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Quote from: Magkirap on October 08, 2019, 06:49:22 PM

Quote from: Malsetid on October 03, 2019, 03:34:45 AM

Hey guys. I've been watching a lot of debates on youtube about this topic where theists, apologetics, philosophers, scientists, agnostics and atheists discuss whether religion has a monopoly over what people perceive to be right or wrong. Guys like WLC, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Frank Turek, Richard Dawkins etc. Go after each other's throats to prove their points and honestly, i think every one of them has a valid argument.

What do you think?

Everyone had their own set of beliefs so it was not surprising thar their arguments are both valid.

In a common law (lore) court in the USA, whatever anybody says is true. If there are differences, the court is there to find out which truth is reality.

Cool

KennyR

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Quote from: BADecker on October 08, 2019, 08:15:42 AM

Quote from: Artemis3 on October 07, 2019, 06:16:58 PM

Quote from: Malsetid on October 03, 2019, 03:34:45 AM

Hey guys. I've been watching a lot of debates on youtube about this topic where theists, apologetics, philosophers, scientists, agnostics and atheists discuss whether religion has a monopoly over what people perceive to be right or wrong. Guys like WLC, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Frank Turek, Richard Dawkins etc. Go after each other's throats to prove their points and honestly, i think every one of them has a valid argument.

What do you think?

Religion does NOT have a monopoly, but it certainly can help, unfortunately in some aspects it can also harm and leave people misled in darkness.

So, as everything in life, it depends. It doesn't even depend on the religion, but on the person.

Informal religion has a monopoly in the lives of everyone:

Quote from: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t

religion
[ ri-lij-uh n ]

noun

...

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

So, everything in life depends on the person's religion, because God controls everything in life based on His desires, and how the person's individual religion conforms to His desires.

Cool

I too have the same thinking. A person lives through his religion, soon after the birth of a child, he/she gets baptized which is the initial point. From there onwards we are into the hands of God. We desire for something, and we strive hard to get it. Same time one next to us doesn't have a desire but he gets what we desire for. This is how God makes us strong in all ways and gives us when we hardly need it.

Magkirap

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Quote from: Malsetid on October 03, 2019, 03:34:45 AM

Hey guys. I've been watching a lot of debates on youtube about this topic where theists, apologetics, philosophers, scientists, agnostics and atheists discuss whether religion has a monopoly over what people perceive to be right or wrong. Guys like WLC, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Frank Turek, Richard Dawkins etc. Go after each other's throats to prove their points and honestly, i think every one of them has a valid argument.

What do you think?

Every Religin had their own set of beliefs so it was not surprising that their arguments are both valid. You should not argue with other religion in terms of what is right and wrong because first of all different religion arise because of diffirent beliefs and perceptions. In terms of Morality and Religion, Religion does manipulate the Morality for it limits the persons decision because there was a supreme being that is going to judge them in their actions. In my opinion, Religion isn't important, what important is the Spirituality.

BADecker

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Quote from: Artemis3 on October 07, 2019, 06:16:58 PM

Quote from: Malsetid on October 03, 2019, 03:34:45 AM

Hey guys. I've been watching a lot of debates on youtube about this topic where theists, apologetics, philosophers, scientists, agnostics and atheists discuss whether religion has a monopoly over what people perceive to be right or wrong. Guys like WLC, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Frank Turek, Richard Dawkins etc. Go after each other's throats to prove their points and honestly, i think every one of them has a valid argument.

What do you think?

Religion does NOT have a monopoly, but it certainly can help, unfortunately in some aspects it can also harm and leave people misled in darkness.

So, as everything in life, it depends. It doesn't even depend on the religion, but on the person.

Informal religion has a monopoly in the lives of everyone:

Quote from: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t

religion
[ ri-lij-uh n ]

noun

...

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

So, everything in life depends on the person's religion, because God controls everything in life based on His desires, and how the person's individual religion conforms to His desires.

Cool

BADecker

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Quote from: Naida_BR on October 07, 2019, 12:11:27 PM

Quote from: BADecker on October 06, 2019, 07:47:16 AM

^^^ People never evolve except locally for a generation or two. But in the long run, people always DEVOLVE. Things are going to get worse.

Cool

That's your point of view.
Do you think that we are in a worst situation that many years ago where you can die if a mosquito had bited you? I wonder in what society you live in and you say that things are getting worse...

People can still die of mosquito bites.

Now, people don't die from being thrown from a horse as much, but they die in car accidents a whole lot more.

All people live in hope. People of the past lived in hope just as much as people of the present.

People from 7 thousand years ago lived longer than 900 years at times. Check the Septuagint.

The devolution we have is caused in part by environment. But it is also caused by moral depravity. This depravity is being corrected by religion, somewhat. But devolution is causing religion to become ignored more and more.

Cool

Artemis3

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Quote from: Malsetid on October 03, 2019, 03:34:45 AM

Hey guys. I've been watching a lot of debates on youtube about this topic where theists, apologetics, philosophers, scientists, agnostics and atheists discuss whether religion has a monopoly over what people perceive to be right or wrong. Guys like WLC, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Frank Turek, Richard Dawkins etc. Go after each other's throats to prove their points and honestly, i think every one of them has a valid argument.

What do you think?

Religion does NOT have a monopoly, but it certainly can help, unfortunately in some aspects it can also harm and leave people misled in darkness.

So, as everything in life, it depends. It doesn't even depend on the religion, but on the person.

Naida_BR

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Quote from: BADecker on October 06, 2019, 07:47:16 AM

^^^ People never evolve except locally for a generation or two. But in the long run, people always DEVOLVE. Things are going to get worse.

Cool

That's your point of view.
Do you think that we are in a worst situation that many years ago where you can die if a mosquito had bited you? I wonder in what society you live in and you say that things are getting worse...

johnpaul94

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Ideally every religion supposedly emphasises on morality and poses a standard that is morally sound to their individual religious approval. However, the challenge arises from the practices of their followers forsaking the moral principles taught and twisting them to justify their immoral action.

BADecker

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Quote from: iv4n on October 06, 2019, 04:34:29 PM

Quote from: BADecker on October 06, 2019, 02:50:45 PM

Quote from: iv4n on October 06, 2019, 12:47:13 PM

BADecker do you know what you need to be happy and fulfilled?

Immersion within the Shekhinah - http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13537-shekinah.

Cool

Ok, and how do you plan to achieve that? Trough prayers, meditation of some kind, some drugs? Or you plan to live like they say you need to live to be able to achieve that in some point?

To be honest I started to read your link and after few lines my head wanted to explode. Its too complicated to catch who is who there, which languages are used to explain certain terms, words, I don`t know how to explain the mess I see there.

I like other kind of literature, I will share something with you:

“Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.”

“The more a thing tends to be permanent, the more it tends to be lifeless.”

“No one is more dangerously insane than one who is sane all the time.”

It`s Alan Watts. Its something I can relate too. And to not forget I still expect you to answer me how you plan to "get to" or "achieve " Shekhinah". I hope that answer isn`t to private.

I could answer your question with one word... Die.
Or I could add a few more words to it... Die believing in Jesus salvation.
Or I could go into the whole story of God and Satan and the fall and the salvation of Jesus and the New Universe talked about in Isaiah and the destruction of this universe (the lake of fire... Revelation). But you can read the Bible for all that info, yourself.

Alan Watts succeeded in starting a very noble account of the spiritual way things exist. But if he had believed any of it, he could have made it into a Christian document second only to the Bible, itself.

What was his writing called again? Oh yeah. "Myth and Ritual in Christianity." I'm sure you can find a copy of it on the Net somewhere. Or do you have it?

Cool

iv4n

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Quote from: BADecker on October 06, 2019, 02:50:45 PM

Quote from: iv4n on October 06, 2019, 12:47:13 PM

BADecker do you know what you need to be happy and fulfilled?

Immersion within the Shekhinah - http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13537-shekinah.

Cool

Ok, and how do you plan to achieve that? Trough prayers, meditation of some kind, some drugs? Or you plan to live like they say you need to live to be able to achieve that in some point?

To be honest I started to read your link and after few lines my head wanted to explode. Its too complicated to catch who is who there, which languages are used to explain certain terms, words, I don`t know how to explain the mess I see there.

I like other kind of literature, I will share something with you:

“Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun.”

“The more a thing tends to be permanent, the more it tends to be lifeless.”

“No one is more dangerously insane than one who is sane all the time.”

It`s Alan Watts. Its something I can relate too. And to not forget I still expect you to answer me how you plan to "get to" or "achieve " Shekhinah". I hope that answer isn`t to private.

Mometaskers

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Some of those names sound familiar. Haven't following them but yes, those people you mentioned tend to be outspoken secularists. I believe most of them are atheists, Dawkins definitely, not sure about Peterson.

We need to understand that since they don't believe in any deity, it's going to affect their views of the source of morality, which is why most of them point to an innate biological origin. I don't think debates between them and religious folks are going to end well, completely different worldviews.

BADecker

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Quote from: iv4n on October 06, 2019, 12:47:13 PM

Quote from: BADecker on October 06, 2019, 07:47:16 AM

^^^ People never evolve except locally for a generation or two. But in the long run, people always DEVOLVE. Things are going to get worse.

Cool

It`s like some rule, it need to get worse before its get better for everyone. We have some stupid system that last for centuries, in these systems nobody is free, and that`s a huge problem.
It explains your opinion thou. Generation or two accept the current state, next generation despise it and they wish something else, rebel generation.

BADecker do you know what you need to be happy and fulfilled?

Immersion within the Shekhinah - http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13537-shekinah.

Cool

iv4n

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Quote from: BADecker on October 06, 2019, 07:47:16 AM

^^^ People never evolve except locally for a generation or two. But in the long run, people always DEVOLVE. Things are going to get worse.

Cool

It`s like some rule, it need to get worse before its get better for everyone. We have some stupid system that last for centuries, in these systems nobody is free, and that`s a huge problem.
It explains your opinion thou. Generation or two accept the current state, next generation despise it and they wish something else, rebel generation.

BADecker do you know what you need to be happy and fulfilled?

BADecker

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^^^ People never evolve except locally for a generation or two. But in the long run, people always DEVOLVE. Things are going to get worse.

Cool

iv4n

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Religion and morality, funny topic, when you include government and rules all that became hilarious.
In some countries and religions it`s not moral and legal to have more then one wife, but there are countries where that`s ok. When you think about that, sexuality, religions, government laws, this world is really messed up.
Same is with smoking weed. In some countries and religions it`s forbidden, in some it`s ok. How to talk about drugs then? Can we talk about it, or its forbidden?
In my opinion there is just one wrong thing, it`s to physically hurt others. Except in one case, when someone want`s that, BDSM. So its logical to assume that I think that religions are mostly wrong, government`s too. Entire society have wrong foundations.
But one day people will evolve, all this will be history. Same as we read now about stone age, about kings and slaves, some people will read about this times and they will think how it`s possible that people live under this conditions and they didn`t rise earlier to make changes.

BADecker

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^^^... except when they were instructed what to write by God. Cool

TooQik

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Quote from: Daniel91 on October 05, 2019, 07:17:27 AM

Do you really think it's okay for each person to determine for themselves what is moral and what is not?
Personally, I think there needs to be some social consensus on what is acceptable and what is not, otherwise we will have chaos and clutter in society.
And I agree that human morality is relative and changeable but God's morality is absolute and unchangeable, and therefore more reliable.

I'm not only saying that it's okay, I'm saying that the bulk of individuals on the planet already make this determination for themselves based on factors I outlined in my previous post.

We already have a number of social consensus's on what is acceptable; laws and religion are two of the more dominant examples. Laws will differ from state to state and country to country, while religion will differ from person to person. Both will evolve or change over time to suit societal needs. This leaves no absolute common ground on which to form a solid consensus on what is right and wrong.

As an atheist, I can't agree with the last part of your last sentence. If you base your God's morality on any religious scripture, then you're basing it on morality of the human(s) who transcribed/wrote it at the time.

Topic: Religion and Morality. - page 5. (Read 876 times)