Removal of BestChange ANN from local sections

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 20, 2024, 03:28:10 AM

Quote from: Josefjix on December 19, 2024, 10:30:23 AM

Maybe it's because the deleted ones (see the Croatia translation thread) had no active discussion/updates on them like the others I saw ( still not a good reason to delete an ANN)

No, that can't be it. If we were to use that as a factor, admins and mods would have to delete many more threads all over the place. As theymos said, our local isn't booming with activity, but that's no reason to delete something you don't even understand due to a language barrier.

I'm not going to say that the mod who took care of it had an internal motive but something went down..

Quote from: dkbit98 on December 20, 2024, 02:25:10 PM

We are not inactive at all, but we are not going to post spam and worthless posts just to have better activity.
If that would start to happen I would personally always report posts like that regardless who wrote them.

I've noticed that political-inclined local boards have more activities than others. For the Nigeria local board, for example, our leaders are constantly in the news for terrible reasons, whether it's bitcoin or the economy, so there's always something to speak about.

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Quote from: Josefjix on December 19, 2024, 10:30:23 AM

but honestly there's no use in spending money on translation on those inactive local boards. IMO

We are not inactive at all, but we are not going to post spam and worthless posts just to have better activity.
If that would start to happen I would personally always report posts like that regardless who wrote them.

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Quote from: Josefjix on December 19, 2024, 10:30:23 AM

Maybe it's because the deleted ones (see the Croatia translation thread) had no active discussion/updates on them like the others I saw ( still not a good reason to delete an ANN)

No, that can't be it. If we were to use that as a factor, admins and mods would have to delete many more threads all over the place. As theymos said, our local isn't booming with activity, but that's no reason to delete something you don't even understand due to a language barrier.

Quote from: Josefjix on December 19, 2024, 10:30:23 AM

...but honestly there's no use in spending money on translation on those inactive local boards.

That's a decision BestChange should make, and obviously they thought it was worth it creating a translated thread in the Croatian local.

Josefjix

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Quote from: Rikafip on December 19, 2024, 12:09:32 PM

Quote from: Josefjix on December 19, 2024, 10:30:23 AM

but honestly there's no use in spending money on translation on those inactive local boards. IMO

Croatian local is far from inactive, with mainly high ranking accounts many of which are reputable members of this forum. True, our numbers are far from where they used to be, but same can be said about the forum in general as well.

Maybe its just me, but it kinda sucks that mods can delete posts that were made by a member who has some reputation around here) without report on the boards of the language they don't speak.

Funny thing is, the mod who took care of it has seen this thread and has decided not to take responsibility for their actions in explaining why those threads were deleted because, from everything we've read, there seems to be no good reason, and even theymos responses were mere speculations. No one seems to know why and how to avoid it moving forward.

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Quote from: Josefjix on December 19, 2024, 10:30:23 AM

Maybe it's because the deleted ones (see the Croatia translation thread) had no active discussion/updates on them like the others I saw

There are others that were not deleted while having only posts from OP, so that can't be a reason for deletion in some boards.

Quote from: Josefjix on December 19, 2024, 10:30:23 AM

but honestly there's no use in spending money on translation on those inactive local boards. IMO

Croatian local is far from inactive, with mainly high ranking accounts many of which are reputable members of this forum. True, our numbers are far from where they used to be, but same can be said about the forum in general as well.

Maybe its just me, but it kinda sucks that mods can delete posts that were made by a member who has some reputation around here) without report on the boards of the language they don't speak.

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 19, 2024, 05:05:21 AM

When you said that the topic could be "non-additive", can you tell us what makes it such and why the deleted Croatian thread is "non-additive" compared to one of the other threads in local boards that wasn't deleted?

Maybe it's because the deleted ones (see the Croatia translation thread) had no active discussion/updates on them like the others I saw ( still not a good reason to delete an ANN) but honestly there's no use in spending money on translation on those inactive local boards. IMO

Bestchange is big and with or without BTT forum they will still get customers.

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 19, 2024, 05:05:21 AM

When you said that the topic could be "non-additive", can you tell us what makes it such and why the deleted Croatian thread is "non-additive" compared to one of the other threads in local boards that wasn't deleted?

I would speculate that that is an after-the-fact justification.

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Quote from: theymos on December 14, 2024, 04:48:38 PM

The 4 topics deleted in this case were in low-volume language sections that don't have their own moderators, so Global Moderators who can't actually speak the language have jurisdiction. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that they're poor translations and/or non-additive. I'm not inclined to restore them.

No offense, but how can you, an American, or your fellow staff members who could be Japanese, Spanish, insert any country you like, determine that a translation is of poor quality with no knowledge and understanding of the target language? Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less if BestChange has an ANN in our Croatian local. I didn't even see when it was posted (perhaps it appeared in the "Trgovina" child board), but after seeing the achieve, the translation is ok.

When you said that the topic could be "non-additive", can you tell us what makes it such and why the deleted Croatian thread is "non-additive" compared to one of the other threads in local boards that wasn't deleted?

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Quote from: examplens on December 17, 2024, 09:42:35 AM

I believe that this is the reason why a moderator is not assigned to the Croatian board, because the largest number of users from there know well the basics of behaviour on the forum and spammers appear very rarely.

Yep, having board basically clear from spam and shitposts even when we had x10 more activity than we have now actually worked against us when it comes to getting a new moderator.

Quote from: JollyGood on December 16, 2024, 01:38:28 PM

Whether we agree or disagree with the comment, this is the most important post in the thread as it clarifies the threads will not be restored.

"Not inclined to" (as theymos put it) doesn't necessarily mean that he won't do it, but since Best_Change won't push it further, I guess matter is closed.

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Quote from: Best_Change on December 16, 2024, 10:48:57 PM

To all those who suggested we re-translate our topics and try again, we're not going to do it as of now. The fact that the threads were deleted without any feedback is very demotivating, while suggestions about poor translation are merely speculation.

This is completely understandable. I'd be very demotivated too.
I personally attested that the Greek translation wasn't bad. But honestly I don't think you're missing out in much because many local subforums here never get catered to and as a result get very little visibility. If there's little to nothing to attract eyes on local boards they fall in a vicious cycle of disrepair.
It's no fault of your own, but rather the forum can't really sustain these boards when there's no staff speaking these languages.

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Quote from: Best_Change on December 16, 2024, 10:48:57 PM

To all those who suggested we re-translate our topics and try again, we're not going to do it as of now. The fact that the threads were deleted without any feedback is very demotivating, while suggestions about poor translation are merely speculation.

That's also a good decision and I truly respect that. I suggest you to not be demotivated as sometimes such things happen on forums and you should not be demotivated in such a way. I hope Best Change will continue to be part of this forum in its original thread and also in local boards where its threads are present.

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Quote from: examplens on December 17, 2024, 09:42:35 AM

Quote from: Best_Change on December 16, 2024, 10:48:57 PM

To all those who suggested we re-translate our topics and try again, we're not going to do it as of now. The fact that the threads were deleted without any feedback is very demotivating, while suggestions about poor translation are merely speculation.

You don't need to be demotivated by that, it's simply a way of organizing the forum that in 90% of cases serves its purpose.

I have to say that I admire Best_Change's very cordial reaction to theymos' message. I think I would have taken it worse if some threads were deleted and others not, because maybe they are badly translated but maybe they are not and maybe they do not contribute much to the local boards or maybe they do.

In the end the ultimate decision maker is theymos, but I think he is open to criticism, even of his decisions, as he is a great advocate of free speech.

I remember that in the case of Best_Change when there were complaints about his service and even accusations of scam, he knew how to respond in a very calm and very detailed way. For me an example of how a business has to deal with complaints.

Anyway, I wouldn't try to repost threads in the deleted sections with a new translation, just to keep wondering if they'll be deleted because the moderator thinks it's badly translated or not, or contributes a lot or little to the local board.

So congratulations Best_Change for the way you react in this forum. I think many of us, including myself, have a lot to learn from you.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on December 16, 2024, 04:32:29 PM

Quote from: theymos on December 14, 2024, 04:48:38 PM

What we're talking about here is taking the same announcement and translating it into 16 different languages/topics. Local moderators need to decide on a case-by-case basis whether this kind of pure translation is actually worthwhile in their own local sections. It'd be totally reasonable for a local moderator to delete any of these topics due to being a poor translation, or even just because this sort of translation activity is simply more noise than signal in that local section.

The 4 topics deleted in this case were in low-volume language sections that don't have their own moderators, so Global Moderators who can't actually speak the language have jurisdiction. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that they're poor translations and/or non-additive. I'm not inclined to restore them.

It's not like we didn't ask you for assigning new local moderator for Croatian local board several times Wink

Activity can always be better and we lost some og members, but there are local boards with less activity and they have local mod.
I don't think this issue with bestchange would happen in our board, but I invite them to post it again.
We already confirmed it was not a poor translation in our board.

This is additionally unusual because, in the Croatian local board, 80% of active members are highly ranked and proven forum users. If the moderator had asked anyone to check the post, he would have received a precise answer.
I believe that this is the reason why a moderator is not assigned to the Croatian board, because the largest number of users from there know well the basics of behaviour on the forum and spammers appear very rarely.

Quote from: Best_Change on December 16, 2024, 10:48:57 PM

To all those who suggested we re-translate our topics and try again, we're not going to do it as of now. The fact that the threads were deleted without any feedback is very demotivating, while suggestions about poor translation are merely speculation.

You don't need to be demotivated by that, it's simply a way of organizing the forum that in 90% of cases serves its purpose.

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Quote from: Plaguedeath on December 16, 2024, 03:59:56 AM

Quote from: Best_Change on December 15, 2024, 10:42:38 PM

Can anyone suggest forums in the languages that were deleted? Perhaps we can go there. Specifically, local forums on crypto, business, finance, and earning online. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

altcoinstalks.com, cryptotalk.org

Thank you very much. We are already active on this forums and will definitely explore the local boards.

To all those who suggested we re-translate our topics and try again, we're not going to do it as of now. The fact that the threads were deleted without any feedback is very demotivating, while suggestions about poor translation are merely speculation.

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Quote from: theymos on December 14, 2024, 04:48:38 PM

What we're talking about here is taking the same announcement and translating it into 16 different languages/topics. Local moderators need to decide on a case-by-case basis whether this kind of pure translation is actually worthwhile in their own local sections. It'd be totally reasonable for a local moderator to delete any of these topics due to being a poor translation, or even just because this sort of translation activity is simply more noise than signal in that local section.

The 4 topics deleted in this case were in low-volume language sections that don't have their own moderators, so Global Moderators who can't actually speak the language have jurisdiction. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that they're poor translations and/or non-additive. I'm not inclined to restore them.

It's not like we didn't ask you for assigning new local moderator for Croatian local board several times Wink

Activity can always be better and we lost some og members, but there are local boards with less activity and they have local mod.
I don't think this issue with bestchange would happen in our board, but I invite them to post it again.
We already confirmed it was not a poor translation in our board.

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Quote from: JollyGood on December 16, 2024, 01:38:28 PM

I suppose the OP can decide if they want to create new threads with better translations and try again.

Yes, I believe that's going to be the best step by the OP, and I would like to add that instead of hiring translators from outside of the forum, OP might consider hiring reputed members of the particular local boards and pay them to write the announcement threads.

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Quote from: theymos on December 14, 2024, 04:48:38 PM

What we're talking about here is taking the same announcement and translating it into 16 different languages/topics. Local moderators need to decide on a case-by-case basis whether this kind of pure translation is actually worthwhile in their own local sections. It'd be totally reasonable for a local moderator to delete any of these topics due to being a poor translation, or even just because this sort of translation activity is simply more noise than signal in that local section.

The 4 topics deleted in this case were in low-volume language sections that don't have their own moderators, so Global Moderators who can't actually speak the language have jurisdiction. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that they're poor translations and/or non-additive.

I missed this post and no matter how informative it is there is room for improvement. Others can express their own opinion but rather than assuming matters were one way or another, would it not be far more conducive if a moderator had to complete a note for the OP of any thread that was being removed? Had that happened this thread might not have been created as the matter would have been clarified.

Quote from: theymos on December 14, 2024, 04:48:38 PM

I'm not inclined to restore them.

Whether we agree or disagree with the comment, this is the most important post in the thread as it clarifies the threads will not be restored. I suppose the OP can decide if they want to create new threads with better translations and try again.

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Quote from: Plaguedeath on December 16, 2024, 03:59:56 AM

Quote from: Best_Change on December 15, 2024, 10:42:38 PM

Can anyone suggest forums in the languages that were deleted? Perhaps we can go there. Specifically, local forums on crypto, business, finance, and earning online. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

altcoinstalks.com, cryptotalk.org

I think bestchange already active on the Altcointalk.com forum. you can track them over there.
Sorry here is the link

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Quote from: Best_Change on December 15, 2024, 10:42:38 PM

Can anyone suggest forums in the languages that were deleted? Perhaps we can go there. Specifically, local forums on crypto, business, finance, and earning online. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

altcoinstalks.com, cryptotalk.org

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Quote from: theymos on December 14, 2024, 04:48:38 PM

What we're talking about here is taking the same announcement and translating it into 16 different languages/topics. Local moderators need to decide on a case-by-case basis whether this kind of pure translation is actually worthwhile in their own local sections. It'd be totally reasonable for a local moderator to delete any of these topics due to being a poor translation, or even just because this sort of translation activity is simply more noise than signal in that local section.

The 4 topics deleted in this case were in low-volume language sections that don't have their own moderators, so Global Moderators who can't actually speak the language have jurisdiction. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that they're poor translations and/or non-additive. I'm not inclined to restore them.

Thank you for taking the time to comment on this, theymos. Things are clear now. We will continue posting in the threads that are still there as we humbly hope that they can help users learn about our service better and use it to the utmost benefit.

Can anyone suggest forums in the languages that were deleted? Perhaps we can go there. Specifically, local forums on crypto, business, finance, and earning online. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Topic: Removal of BestChange ANN from local sections (Read 1097 times)