Removal of BestChange ANN from local sections - page 3.

Rikafip

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on December 14, 2024, 04:34:27 AM

For such topics to be removed for incorrect translation, the reports had to be submitted directly by the owners of the boards where these topics were. But we see two people from Croatia who agree with the translation, and it does not cause them any problems. The same can be learned from users of other local boards. If the reason is not in the translation, then maybe the person who sent such reports formulated the explanation incorrectly, and the moderator agreed with him.

hilariousandco said that he can't see any reports being made about this, which then leaves us to one of the mods who has the right to do it, doing it by himself. Some transparency about this would be nice.

Quote from: Josefjix on December 14, 2024, 08:38:08 AM

it was simply an action taken by one of those global mods or patrollers without anyone's assistance.

As far as I know, patrollers can only act on posts written by Newbies, so we can discard that theory.

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Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on December 14, 2024, 04:34:27 AM

For such topics to be removed for incorrect translation, the reports had to be submitted directly by the owners of the boards where these topics were. But we see two people from Croatia who agree with the translation, and it does not cause them any problems. The same can be learned from users of other local boards. If the reason is not in the translation, then maybe the person who sent such reports formulated the explanation incorrectly, and the moderator agreed with him. This is advertising, and the service that is advertised has earned trust with its many years of experience not only on this forum but also around the world.

The global mod has already stated that no reports were made; from what I understand, the global mod sees all reports on both the local and English boards (both handled and unhandled), so it simply means that no one reported those threads; it was simply an action taken by one of those global mods or patrollers without anyone's assistance.

If native speakers from other languages can come forward and confirm that the threads in their native language were organically translated, as members of the Croatia board have done, it will shed additional light on the matter.

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Quote from: Josefjix on December 13, 2024, 04:49:57 PM

The question is, how many global mods have publicly admitted to making certain decisions, aside from hilariousandco?

mprep has on a couple of occasions. They both are the most active global moderators I see around. I believe we have just 3 in total on the forum.

Quote from: Josefjix on December 13, 2024, 04:49:57 PM

There is a problem somewhere, and bestchange should take the lost and hire an active native speaker from those languages to avoid a similar occurrence in the future.

Reposting same ANN will result to another deletion.

I already gave my advice to Best_Change. Trying to know exactly what went wrong is the best approach as there is no confirmation that the translations were made by non natives, but they can have them reviewed just to be extra certain.

JollyGood

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This complicates things even more if some Croatian members have stated the translations are of a good standard. The whole matter would have been resolved if the OP was informed of the reason, that way they could have at least contested the claim/reason had they disagreed with the moderator that removed it (or at least had a chance to modify the words (if that was what would have sufficed).

Quote from: lovesmayfamilis on December 14, 2024, 04:34:27 AM

For such topics to be removed for incorrect translation, the reports had to be submitted directly by the owners of the boards where these topics were. But we see two people from Croatia who agree with the translation, and it does not cause them any problems. The same can be learned from users of other local boards. If the reason is not in the translation, then maybe the person who sent such reports formulated the explanation incorrectly, and the moderator agreed with him. This is advertising, and the service that is advertised has earned trust with its many years of experience not only on this forum but also around the world.

Cricktor

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There's rule #27 of Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ

Quote

27. Using automated translation tools to post translated content in Local boards is not allowed.

But as mentioned by two users, violating this rules didn't seem to apply for the Croation translation. If the Dutch translation was really bad then I'd assume the deletion there could've been caused by obvious breaking of above rule #27.

The more a reason to have AOBT do the translations for important stuff as they likely have native speakers to do it.

If moderators delete such threads I would expect from them to have the decency to explain the deletion reasons.

Smartvirus

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on December 13, 2024, 11:06:08 AM

From the comment of a global mod above, it's possible there were no reports. Could have been a direct action by a mod based on their assessment of those posts.

That’s something to think about eventually, don’t know what’s like on the global mods dashboard but, from the comment, someone acted out of impulse and don’t know how this might be a coincidence as it happens across a few local boards, perhaps not all at the same time but enough to raise some concerns for a project that has sticked around for a long time to gain wide recognition and reputation.

With the former been as a result of bad translation, I think that was the whistle blower that called for attention on other local boards which indeed result on the actions on the threads.
I would agree with the notion that, local people or native speakers do translate them threads, just as it’s done for Fillippone.

lovesmayfamilis

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For such topics to be removed for incorrect translation, the reports had to be submitted directly by the owners of the boards where these topics were. But we see two people from Croatia who agree with the translation, and it does not cause them any problems. The same can be learned from users of other local boards. If the reason is not in the translation, then maybe the person who sent such reports formulated the explanation incorrectly, and the moderator agreed with him. This is advertising, and the service that is advertised has earned trust with its many years of experience not only on this forum but also around the world.

Rikafip

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Quote from: dkbit98 on December 13, 2024, 04:42:26 PM

I saw that topic also and it looked fine to me, I thought one of our local members probably translated it, but I was not sure.

My thought exactly.

Quote from: dkbit98 on December 13, 2024, 04:42:26 PM

For me there was no problem with that post, and everyone can check that in archive:
https://ninjastic.space/topic/5520790

Ah yes, I forgot to check the archive, thnx. Anyway, my initial assessment was correct, this looks fine to me and I see no reason for deletion.

Quote from: Josefjix on December 13, 2024, 04:49:57 PM

Reposting same ANN will result to another deletion.

Why? Mods are human and they make mistakes like everyone else. In at least one case (the Croatian local board), they obviously made one.

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I do find it strange that the OP is complaining of five threads being removed and asking for the reasons yet thus far there has been no concrete reason provided that can bring closure. If it was simply a matter of low quality translations then I guess the solution could be what you have suggested but the OP should have been told the reason when it happened.

Quote from: mindrust on December 13, 2024, 09:34:28 AM

Hire aobt next time if you want the most bang for your buck.

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on December 13, 2024, 04:10:04 PM

Quote from: Josefjix on December 13, 2024, 02:20:44 PM

Maybe a global mod from one of those languages literally read and took care of all of them after discovering that the one in his language was not organically translated; it's a simple logic; if one of the translations was translated using an AI tool, one could easily assume that the others were also translated using AI.

Firstly, I don't think mods will act on conjecture, expecting that because one was not originally translated others weren't too.

Secondly, not all their translated posts were deleted, only the ones which was stated in the op, so that invalidates that logic. In the end all of these speculations don't matter without the actual mod that took the action chiming in.

The question is, how many global mods have publicly admitted to making certain decisions, aside from hilariousandco? There is a problem somewhere, and bestchange should take the lost and hire an active native speaker from those languages to avoid a similar occurrence in the future.

Reposting same ANN will result to another deletion.

dkbit98

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Quote from: Rikafip on December 13, 2024, 10:06:41 AM

I only skimmed over their ANN when they published it in our local (Croatian) board so I can't be 100% sure, but from what I remember, it looked to me like it was translated by a native Croatian speaker.

Whoever reported it in our local board probably was too eager. Tongue

I saw that topic also and it looked fine to me, I thought one of our local members probably translated it, but I was not sure.
I didn't report it myself, but I don't know if anyone else did it, or it was just a moderator tooking the initiative and deleted topics from all local boards.
For me there was no problem with that post, and everyone can check that in archive:
https://ninjastic.space/topic/5520790

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Quote from: Josefjix on December 13, 2024, 02:20:44 PM

Maybe a global mod from one of those languages literally read and took care of all of them after discovering that the one in his language was not organically translated; it's a simple logic; if one of the translations was translated using an AI tool, one could easily assume that the others were also translated using AI.

Firstly, I don't think mods will act on conjecture, expecting that because one was not originally translated others weren't too.

Secondly, not all their translated posts were deleted, only the ones which was stated in the op, so that invalidates that logic. In the end all of these speculations don't matter without the actual mod that took the action chiming in.

KingsDen

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Quote from: Best_Change on December 13, 2024, 03:10:20 AM

Can you give us an idea what the issue is with all the above-mentioned threads?

Thank you.

I am glad to see Best_change write here again. I have developed this bond with the green colour as the memories are still fresh.

As others have advised, it could be as a result of poor translation just like the Dutch case. You can reach out to good translators to make a real translation for your big brand in the forum.

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on December 13, 2024, 11:27:13 AM

Quote from: Rikafip on December 13, 2024, 11:15:01 AM

Wouldn't all the others be removed as well in that case, rather than just a selected few?

My comment was merely a conjecture. Thinking about it, I don't think we have a mod who could assess the different threads in multiple languages and determine which was made using a tool and which wasn't. That will need command of multiple languages, so the more plausible explanation should be those deleted ones were reported with evidence or the mod used a tool to check all the threads

Multiple reports from different users about the different post within the same timeframe is very unlikely imo.

Maybe a global mod from one of those languages literally read and took care of all of them after discovering that the one in his language was not organically translated; it's a simple logic; if one of the translations was translated using an AI tool, one could easily assume that the others were also translated using AI.

If the one in Dutch was translated by the same agency and reported as bad, there's a significant possibility that the others are also bad.

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Quote from: Porfirii on December 13, 2024, 12:08:50 PM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on December 13, 2024, 10:23:10 AM

-snip-

While I find the work of the AOBT commendable, I don't see why the only valid translations for bitcointalk have to be theirs and not those of an agency.

Other reputable translators can also be found in the Services board of the forum. When in doubt about their reliability, ask them about their previous work or portfolio and, most importantly, check if they are well known and active in their respective local boards.

Of course, that's a given among the members of the AoBT thanks to our rules, control mechanisms and public portfolios.

I am sure that you take more care of the quality and natural translation than the sworn translator I had to pay, but for my particular case only his signature was what I needed.

In this case of Best Change, I'm not just referring to the forum. He says that he has paid an agency outside the forum to translate. If so I understand that he can show an invoice or receipt to a mod or theymos if required to have the deleted posts republished. There are companies that advertise here and maybe it is not the only place where they advertise in multiple languages, we can't force them to hire someone from the forum.

But what worries me is the criteria the mods have followed to delete the posts, if they have followed any criteria other than a hunch.

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on December 13, 2024, 08:08:08 AM

-snip-
Nevertheless I suggest you get a much better and organic translator to get the job done. Don't know if you've tried them , I think you should contact Porfirii and the [AOBT] The Alliance Of Bitcointalk Translators if they offer translations in those languages.

Thank you for the mention Mia Chloe

yes, we are available and our native translators will be glad to help when needed.

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on December 13, 2024, 10:23:10 AM

-snip-

While I find the work of the AOBT commendable, I don't see why the only valid translations for bitcointalk have to be theirs and not those of an agency.

Other reputable translators can also be found in the Services board of the forum. When in doubt about their reliability, ask them about their previous work or portfolio and, most importantly, check if they are well known and active in their respective local boards.

Of course, that's a given among the members of the AoBT thanks to our rules, control mechanisms and public portfolios.

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@Bestchange I think you should use AOBT to translate your post in your local thread since the translated post done in our local board version of Bestchange ANN https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5475294.20 is not that so natural in our local language.

This is my first time to actually read all the translated post done on our local board after reading this topic. Maybe the translation quality is really the main reason for thread deletion.

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Quote from: Rikafip on December 13, 2024, 11:15:01 AM

Wouldn't all the others be removed as well in that case, rather than just a selected few?

My comment was merely a conjecture. Thinking about it, I don't think we have a mod who could assess the different threads in multiple languages and determine which was made using a tool and which wasn't. That will need command of multiple languages, so the more plausible explanation should be those deleted ones were reported with evidence or the mod used a tool to check all the threads

Multiple reports from different users about the different post within the same timeframe is very unlikely imo.

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: Rikafip on December 13, 2024, 11:15:01 AM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on December 13, 2024, 10:23:10 AM

For me they were deleted rather on a hunch, because others had already been deleted.

Wouldn't all the others be removed as well in that case, rather than just a selected few?

Quote from: Upgrade00 on December 13, 2024, 11:06:08 AM

From the comment of a global mod above, it's possible there were no reports. Could have been a direct action by a mod based on their assessment of those posts.

We don't have a local mod ever since Lauda was removed (or he asked to be removed from that position, not sure really) long time ago so it couldn't be him and somehow I doubt that any of the others are fluent in Croatian.

AFAIK mods act on reports so it's possible they were deleted because they were reported and others stayed because they were not reported but without a moderator explaining what has happened we can only speculate. For further speculation, some moderator must have seen the report in the Croatian section and acted on it.

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on December 13, 2024, 10:23:10 AM

For me they were deleted rather on a hunch, because others had already been deleted.

Wouldn't all the others be removed as well in that case, rather than just a selected few?

Quote from: Upgrade00 on December 13, 2024, 11:06:08 AM

From the comment of a global mod above, it's possible there were no reports. Could have been a direct action by a mod based on their assessment of those posts.

We don't have a local mod ever since Lauda was removed (or he asked to be removed from that position, not sure really) long time ago so it couldn't be him and somehow I doubt that any of the others are fluent in Croatian.

Topic: Removal of BestChange ANN from local sections - page 3. (Read 1097 times)