Topic: Residential Limit 15amp or 20amp? - page 4. (Read 13248 times)
Please also consider you may need to derate conductors based on length or ambient temperature.
So here's where I wound up. I have a contractor coming later this week to run a 50 amp circuit to a new sub panel in the basement. In that panel he'll put a 30A 240 and 20A 120.
I ordered this for the PDU: APC AP7941 Rack PDU. There was a seller with a used one for $50 (+15 shipping) on Amazon. I like the fact I can view the amps drawn and manage it through a web interface.
Then I'll have two of these that will go from the PDU to the machines: Tripp Lite ISOBAR4/220 Isobar Surge Protector Metal 230V 4 Outlet. So each will have 2 machines on it (4 miners total).
This should let me overclock (if possible), from out of the box 1050W to +20% = 1260W / 240V = 5.25 amps * 4 machines, 21 amps out of 24A sustained rating on 30A circuit. That's only if I can get them all OCd, but at least the headroom's there.
This will leave me with a 20A circuit if I need a cooler or for expansion. Thanks for the help here, let me know if I'm blowing it somewhere!
I ordered this for the PDU: APC AP7941 Rack PDU. There was a seller with a used one for $50 (+15 shipping) on Amazon. I like the fact I can view the amps drawn and manage it through a web interface.
Then I'll have two of these that will go from the PDU to the machines: Tripp Lite ISOBAR4/220 Isobar Surge Protector Metal 230V 4 Outlet. So each will have 2 machines on it (4 miners total).
This should let me overclock (if possible), from out of the box 1050W to +20% = 1260W / 240V = 5.25 amps * 4 machines, 21 amps out of 24A sustained rating on 30A circuit. That's only if I can get them all OCd, but at least the headroom's there.
This will leave me with a 20A circuit if I need a cooler or for expansion. Thanks for the help here, let me know if I'm blowing it somewhere!
Side note: My chili and big miner (the 20gh jally) are both running on the Corsair power supply. Power factor is well over .91, which is an exceptional improvement of the .5 from the crap-o BFL supply and .6 from the crap-o 300 watt ATX supply.
So there you go.
So there you go.
Anyway, long day here in Brownbackistan; the new name for Kansas since we now have an idiot for a governor.
Check you later!
Ohh... and Brownie isn't an idiot......... He's just insane..............
Hey, i'm also in Wichita. Just got a 3mh/s rig setup and thinking about another. Reading through this thread to figure out where I'd put it in the basement. Whenever my miners change pools I can see the lights flicker and the box fan cooling them gets faster for a sec
My main PC is also plugged into the same room, so I may separate those too. Lot's to learn about electricity.
I currently have 20A on a 230V circuit (I live in the EU). I am currently in the process of getting three phase link - then I'll have 3x20A. Depending on the cable from the power company to my house, I may even be able to increase the power at a later date (or start using 400V power supplies to reduce the current).
Power factor is a compromise. PSUs with low PF use more current (so you can't run as many miners/etc), but active PFC can result in the power supply blowing up (I have repaired a couple of PSUs after they blew up because of active PFC). I guess passive PFC would be the way to go - better power factor, but no increased risk of blowing up.
By the way, you're also forgetting about power factor. Crappy power supplies have a PF of .5 or so which means you're pulling a lot more volt-amps than if you had a better supply with a .8 or .9 PF rating. volt-amps are not quite the same thing as watts, and volt-amps are what generate heat in lines.
Power factor is a compromise. PSUs with low PF use more current (so you can't run as many miners/etc), but active PFC can result in the power supply blowing up (I have repaired a couple of PSUs after they blew up because of active PFC). I guess passive PFC would be the way to go - better power factor, but no increased risk of blowing up.
By the way, you're also forgetting about power factor. Crappy power supplies have a PF of .5 or so which means you're pulling a lot more volt-amps than if you had a better supply with a .8 or .9 PF rating. volt-amps are not quite the same thing as watts, and volt-amps are what generate heat in lines.
So.... Make sure you get good power supplies. The crappy BFL supplies have a PF of only .6, my Corsair is over .9. Oh and if you can, run your supplies on 240 volts, more efficient. Actually if you can get 3 phase and run 208 volts to your stuff.
C
So.... Make sure you get good power supplies. The crappy BFL supplies have a PF of only .6, my Corsair is over .9. Oh and if you can, run your supplies on 240 volts, more efficient. Actually if you can get 3 phase and run 208 volts to your stuff.
C
Hey thanks for your input!! Currently im rocking 2x 1000 evga gold series power supplies as well as one corsair ax-1200..
So 4 280x's on the 1200 and then 3x a piece on the 2 evga power supplies.. Currently hunting for an electrician that fits my budget ..
Not gonna brave the panel.. just gonna do the homerun.
http://www.corsair.com/professional-series-gold-ax1200-80-plus-gold-certified-fully-modular-power-supply.html
http://www.evga.com/Products/product.aspx?pn=120-g2-1000-xr
By the way, you're also forgetting about power factor. Crappy power supplies have a PF of .5 or so which means you're pulling a lot more volt-amps than if you had a better supply with a .8 or .9 PF rating. volt-amps are not quite the same thing as watts, and volt-amps are what generate heat in lines.
So.... Make sure you get good power supplies. The crappy BFL supplies have a PF of only .6, my Corsair is over .9. Oh and if you can, run your supplies on 240 volts, more efficient. Actually if you can get 3 phase and run 208 volts to your stuff.
C
So.... Make sure you get good power supplies. The crappy BFL supplies have a PF of only .6, my Corsair is over .9. Oh and if you can, run your supplies on 240 volts, more efficient. Actually if you can get 3 phase and run 208 volts to your stuff.
C
Anyway, long day here in Brownbackistan; the new name for Kansas since we now have an idiot for a governor.
Check you later!
Ohh... and Brownie isn't an idiot......... He's just insane..............
You think your Brownie is worse? Our governor is nicknamed Moonbeam. Fitting for the Socialist Republic of Kalifornia.
My electricity is going up to $0.34 in 10 days
Anyway, long day here in Brownbackistan; the new name for Kansas since we now have an idiot for a governor.
Check you later!
Ohh... and Brownie isn't an idiot......... He's just insane..............
Technically, anything over 16 amps (on a 20 amp breaker) or 80% of the breaker's rating is considered an overloaded circuit. You should try to keep under this threshold for your own safety.
Definitely .. DeathAndTaxes was sharing this with us a page back.
Great thread, thanks for all the info! I'm in the same boat, with some miners showing up in March (knock on wood). I was thinking to run 2 new 20amp, 110v circuits, but reading this it looks like one 30amp @ 240v would be better. I'll have 4 machines at 1050 watts each, but I may be able to overclock those by up to 20%, which would be 1260. The two 20amp circuits couldn't handle that, but I think the 30amp circuit could.
Although I'm wondering if I should have 2 circuits run at the same time, just in case I'd want to add anything later on. I'd guess a lot of the cost is in fishing the wires?
I had question related to the PDUs. I'd been planning on getting some power conditioner/voltage regulators like these (one per two miners): Tripp Lite LC2400 Line Conditioner 2400W AVR Surge 120V 20A. I'd need to find a version for 240v, but I'm wondering if most people use these? My electric service is pretty good, but I figured I should have something like this in the line to protect the gear. Or is that not so necessary?
Thx!
Although I'm wondering if I should have 2 circuits run at the same time, just in case I'd want to add anything later on. I'd guess a lot of the cost is in fishing the wires?
I had question related to the PDUs. I'd been planning on getting some power conditioner/voltage regulators like these (one per two miners): Tripp Lite LC2400 Line Conditioner 2400W AVR Surge 120V 20A. I'd need to find a version for 240v, but I'm wondering if most people use these? My electric service is pretty good, but I figured I should have something like this in the line to protect the gear. Or is that not so necessary?
Thx!
Technically, anything over 16 amps (on a 20 amp breaker) or 80% of the breaker's rating is considered an overloaded circuit. You should try to keep under this threshold for your own safety.
Hey CH!! Thanks for chiming in.. Appreciate it. Im gonna grab that APC! Im trying to find a local supplier so i dont have to wait even tho i still have to wait till the 24th for risers coming from china.
Zedicus
Zedicus
Here is the one D&T linked too!
APC AP9571 1U Rackmount PDU 208V 24A
I've been using 3-4 of these for over a year with no problems... I purchased them used. They work great... I actually think it was from searching and seeing DT's recommendation that I ever bought one about a year ago.
It's definitely a good affordable PDU.
Oh man, thanks to some really nice people i just scored a load of 280x's locally!
Im off to grap box fans and parts but i had a question about the pdu!
Here is the one D&T linked too!
APC AP9571 1U Rackmount PDU 208V 24A
Here is a similiar model that cost $150 more and i noticed it is labeled 30A vs the 24A on the pdu D&T linked too..
Since im hoping to get a 30A dedicated circuit like D&T recommended, do i need the more expensive one labeled 30A?
like this one -->> APC AP9571A Rack PDU/Basic/1U/30A
http://www.amazon.com/APC-AP9571A-Basic-Surge-Protector/dp/B002UOIGVY
or can i get the cheaper 20A ones or the 24A ones? like --> APC AP9571A 1U RACKMOUNT PDU 20A 208V
http://www.cwioutlet.com/p-4571-apc-ap9571a-1u-rackmount-pdu-20a-208v-surge-protector.aspx?gclid=CK_BldKdvbsCFYiVfgodoC4AYQ
Thanks in Advance
Im off to grap box fans and parts but i had a question about the pdu!
Here is the one D&T linked too!
APC AP9571 1U Rackmount PDU 208V 24A
Here is a similiar model that cost $150 more and i noticed it is labeled 30A vs the 24A on the pdu D&T linked too..
Since im hoping to get a 30A dedicated circuit like D&T recommended, do i need the more expensive one labeled 30A?
like this one -->> APC AP9571A Rack PDU/Basic/1U/30A
http://www.amazon.com/APC-AP9571A-Basic-Surge-Protector/dp/B002UOIGVY
or can i get the cheaper 20A ones or the 24A ones? like --> APC AP9571A 1U RACKMOUNT PDU 20A 208V
http://www.cwioutlet.com/p-4571-apc-ap9571a-1u-rackmount-pdu-20a-208v-surge-protector.aspx?gclid=CK_BldKdvbsCFYiVfgodoC4AYQ
Thanks in Advance
Edit : Removed Rant about Superbiiz screwing up my order! Ive located 10x 280x and im awaiting local delivery.
A home wiring book will explain all this, it's really not as complicated as it seems.
If you stick to 120v....:
Remember that anybody might have put either a 15 amp or a 20 amp breaker on the same 120v circuit, but that circuit might be more appropriate for 15 than 20, when the size of wire and/or ratings of outlets are taken into consideration. So the existing breaker size doesn't necessarily give you the information you need if you are thinking about constantly running the circuit at or near max.
I would have 12 ga. wire on a 120v 20 amp circuit that I was going to push hard, and not spindly smaller stuff, and I would aim for that circuit to be dedicated to a single outlet. That's ideal. (Obviously you need 10 ga if you move up to 240v.)
What else you have on the same circuit matters! You can't run max load on one outlet while another outlet on the same circuit controls, say, the dishwasher... or you plug a vacuum cleaner into it! If you do that, then you may pop the circuit.
Space on your breaker board doesn't necessarily mean you have that much unused overhead in your service. What matters is the load you put on the overall house service - all your electric demand put together compared to your total house service.
If you want to know the amps of your overall service, locate the box where electric service enters your house. There should be an indication there. You may need to open the box door and take a look at the 'big breaker' there.
If you've got the ability, I think D&T's suggestion makes sense. Personally, I've got a few solid 120v circuits on new 12 ga copper (which I wired myself!) that don't have a lot of load on them, so I plan to run a couple of miners on them, rather than going to 240v.
If you stick to 120v....:
Remember that anybody might have put either a 15 amp or a 20 amp breaker on the same 120v circuit, but that circuit might be more appropriate for 15 than 20, when the size of wire and/or ratings of outlets are taken into consideration. So the existing breaker size doesn't necessarily give you the information you need if you are thinking about constantly running the circuit at or near max.
I would have 12 ga. wire on a 120v 20 amp circuit that I was going to push hard, and not spindly smaller stuff, and I would aim for that circuit to be dedicated to a single outlet. That's ideal. (Obviously you need 10 ga if you move up to 240v.)
What else you have on the same circuit matters! You can't run max load on one outlet while another outlet on the same circuit controls, say, the dishwasher... or you plug a vacuum cleaner into it! If you do that, then you may pop the circuit.
Space on your breaker board doesn't necessarily mean you have that much unused overhead in your service. What matters is the load you put on the overall house service - all your electric demand put together compared to your total house service.
If you want to know the amps of your overall service, locate the box where electric service enters your house. There should be an indication there. You may need to open the box door and take a look at the 'big breaker' there.
If you've got the ability, I think D&T's suggestion makes sense. Personally, I've got a few solid 120v circuits on new 12 ga copper (which I wired myself!) that don't have a lot of load on them, so I plan to run a couple of miners on them, rather than going to 240v.
You make a good point there perezoso!!
In the garage where i was thinking of setting up the rigs i have a small freezer and a couple computers with a 5 monitor setup and that's it.. My washer and dryer , furnace, water heater are all not in the garage and i think they are on their own circuit. For example my panel shows the "dryer" and there is a 30 next to it so i think it has its own dedicated 30amp circuit.
I work from home in my garage so pausing for thought .. The panel is in the garage so its naturally a good place to set up but..
I think i greatly underestimated the power issues miners may face when scaling upwards. I need to rethink my setup and make considerations for noise and other environmental issues if im going to be in the same room with them all day.
Originally i was thinking of using stack-able GPU frames and literally wheeling the miners to another room in my house when im working in the garage so now im rethinking how im going to set this up.. i would like to end up doing what DeathAndTaxes recommends and run the miners on their own circuit alone but the noise factor is my new hurdle i guess since i cant temporarily relocate them at will to just any socket in my home.
nice thread, thanks for the info guys.
I would have 12 ga. wire on a 120v 20 amp circuit that I was going to push hard, and not spindly smaller stuff, and I would aim for that circuit to be dedicated to a single outlet. That's ideal. (Obviously you need 10 ga if you move up to 240v.)
Correction. Wire gauge is based on current. The wire requirements for 240V are exactly the same as 120V.
Quote
What else you have on the same circuit matters! You can't run max load on one outlet while another outlet on the same circuit controls, say, the dishwasher... or you plug a vacuum cleaner into it! If you do that, then you may pop the circuit.
That is right and often wiring can be hard to trace down unless you test every outlet in the house. Contractors can be cheap or lazy so there may be more on one branch circuit than what it first appears to be. This is why if someone is looking to pull some serious power (2, 3, 4 KW of load) it really makes sense to run dedicated circuits.
The miners are on the miner circuit and nothing else is on them.
Quote
If you've got the ability, I think D&T's suggestion makes sense. Personally, I've got a few solid 120v circuits on new 12 ga copper (which I wired myself!) that don't have a lot of load on them, so I plan to run a couple of miners on them, rather than going to 240v.
If you run out of capacity you can double it by using the same wiring and changing the outlet and breaker to create a 240V circuit.
In US 120V is
hot
neutral
ground
240V is
hot leg A
hot leg B
ground
So same # of conductors you are just using 2 hots instead of 1 hot & 1 neutral. So you can upgrade without redoing the wire run by just changing the outlet and breaker (from single pole = 120V to double pole = 240V).
the main breaker in my box is 200 AMPs
Up to 44,000 watts!
You are more than ready to rock'n roll!
WOO HOO!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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