Topic: ripple: let's test it! - page 26. (Read 43945 times)

Ummm who see's this and what does this mean?



Also, so Bitstamp has my trust I guess now what? I want to convert them into BTC/XRP... basically lost at this point lol




MY head is about to explode so lost and confused now ...

Well, what I meant was, that if I have BTC claims on Ripple, and you have USD claims on Ripple, we can trade them through the system, after agreeing on a price privately. It solves the OTC trading problem marvelously.

But there's also this distributed exchange book built into Ripple (under Advanced > Trade), that I'm still trying to figure out. I've placed some orders into the system, but for some reason they have not showed up in the book.

Yes, it definitely appears that's what it's trying to do. If it works, it's absolutely huge.

Colored coins (bitcoinx.org) can also be used for a decentralized exchange, but they still have the problem of making committed orders that can be guaranteed to be executed against. I think Ripple may have solved that problem with the consensus model.

Of course Joe Public will. Ripple is financial capital backed completely by social capital. And it's no secret that bitcointalk is anti-social.  

That explains a lot.  I suppose all this confusion around ripple is a lack of understanding how our own banks work  Not gonna blame anyone, of course.  Murica has a funny way of leaving vital information such as this out of view, and I'm sure many countries are the same.  This is the first time I've actually gotten a hang of what banking is.

and in the end, if everyone uses ripple... POOF: no need for real money?

That's exactly how Ripple works.

That's also how banks work. You have a bank account. I have a bank account. My bank owes me money. I send you a check, that check makes my bank owe me less money and your bank owe you more money. You consider me to have paid you because I made your bank owe you more money and you trust your bank. You can withdraw the money however you arranged with your bank. By some magic we don't have to think about, our banks settle it.

what need is there for an exchange with ripples built-in exchange system. mtGox will be degraded to just being a fiat gateway, no?

Does Ripple actually enable the "decentralized exchange" we've always dreamed of? Does it enable the decentralized stock market we've always dreamed of?

If so, Ripple is the biggest shit that happened since Bitcoin.

As a payment system, it shouldn't be that hard once the steps are reduced. As a community/private credit system ... the jury is still out.

I had a similar thought: compared to ripple, bitcoins seems easy and straightfoward to understand. We can't even explain bitcoin to the masses properly. How the hell can we explain ripple.

I'm hoping this is just bias, though. Maybe ripple is easier to understand for Joe Schmoe than bitcoin,... time will tell.

Yes, I think the initial focus on XRP and on the web of trust (through personal relationships, rather than business relationships) has caused people to miss the forest for the trees, in terms of what Ripple enables. Things will become clearer once the dust settles a bit, and major bitcoin businesses start coming online as Ripple gateways.

This is definitely likely to make things much more difficult for a company like BitInstant, at least in terms of transferring $ between exchanges. If MtGox and BitStamp are both gateways, then I can directly swap MtGox USD to some other person for BitStamp USD via Ripple. And it *should* evolve to the point where the exchanges actually establish trust relationships with one another, so that the swap would be unnecessary, and you could directly deposit BitStamp USD into MtGox, or vice versa.

so true was just thinking the same thing haha...this thing is a monster but once you go through once its starting to become clearer.

This will probably make Bitinstant, our BTC lending thread obsolete after its all figured out.

Crap I think I know what I did wrong ....


I'll double check this process that you did thanks!

edit:finally got it lol...

edit: So I guess next is to make an order to sell the BTC?  so I did an order my question is who see's it ? Meaning I did a    Sell   BTC/XRP    0.03 BTC      I have no idea I'm doing but put that order out there who see's it ?

Could be buggy, but double check that you trusted BitStamp with BTC, not XRP or USD, and that the limit is sufficient for what you're trying to withdraw.

This whole sequence worked flawlessly for me:

1. Grant trust in BTC and USD to BitStamp (in Ripple)
2. Deposit BTC to BitStamp through usual method
3. Withdraw BTC from BitStamp via Ripple (must be less than amount you established trust for)
4. Deposit BTC back to BitStamp via Ripple

Hmmm... so let me get this straight I have BTC balance BitStamp - I hit withdraw BTC to Ripple those are either put in as XPR or BTC correct? I did that and got a nasty error about it not being a trusted source yet its added as a trusted source.

If you trust bitstamp that means that you can WITHDRAW Btc from Bitstamp to Ripple, not viceversa.

s/Ripple/Facebook and you'll see that what you wrote is rampant digital utopianism.  Those links (read: inferences) draw a picture of your financial profile in unprecedented detail.  I'm sorry I don't share your glib outlook, but I'm simply not going to accept the potential welcome surprises of a few single digit percentage in transaction fees going "poof" in exchange for all my financial data INCLUDING personal credit-extension relationships-- which currently does NOT exist in digital form of any kind-- being available to a federation of third parties.  It's hard enough trying to keep track of what the big three credit-rating companies know about me, and who they share it with, as well as banks and cc's.  But that doesn't mean everybody should just willingly provide that and much more data to what will amount to the entire world.

Neither you nor I have any idea of the kinds of inferences that can be made with this data, or even with seemingly innocuous metadata (esp. when aggregated).  At least with Bitcoin methods exist to mitigate problems one might run into with say, inferences between a BTC address and a forum posting-- you can't erase those associations, but you can easily start over.  What does the Ripple userbase do when they read a study that details the negative consequences of showing everything to everyone, all the time, for little in return?  Like Facebook, they'll be locked in to the relationships they've created within the network-- there's no way everyone in your trust network can just generate a new address or something.  (And federation doesn't alleviate this problem-- see Diaspora.)  Users would be trapped, just like they are in the current banking system, except that they've given even more power over to the new system in the form of comprehensive financial and social data.  I think it's safe to say now that such data becomes the real currency of any network that claims to protect personal data by policy instead of by design.

Recently a friend of mine got a hacked email account where the idiot hacker claimed to be that person on a trip to Europe and needed thousands of euros.  What happens when an account hack is paired with inferences from the financial trust network, and the hacker asks for a credit extension based on the data about how that contact has granted credit within the network as a whole? 1000s or Euros suddenly becomes a number that is a lot more reasonable to the recipient.  There are probably much more nefarious uses to which the aggregate data can be put-- the fact that I even have to struggle to think them up is a good example of how nefarious the bigger problem of digital utopianism is.

+1. Just had a break (food with friends and stuff) but still feel things need to sink in over night. Feels like I'm still missing something.

Thanks a lot to everyone for lively discussions, hands-on testing and valuable information and guidance!

I still don't get it completely.

I call it a day and try to wrap my head around Ripple tomorrow.

I can't figure it out. I deposited BTC to bitstamp and added bitstamp as a trusted person and tried to send BTC to it. I got the error in my screenshot up earlier in the thread.

I gave up.