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Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer - page 52. (Read 387552 times)

legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
September 03, 2014, 11:47:24 AM
^I do wish the input for the logo design and color scheme was a bit more openly crowdsourced.

It was very open.  There was a competition thread.  Many entries were submitted.  I have no idea of the mechanism by which the winner was selected.  I think it involved a consultant.  If so, they paid too much.  Boolberry's logo is not all that suitable, but it is an order of magnitude better.  Perhaps one day a reimaging might be considered.  I think it would be premature now.  The present choice has many virtues, in any case.  Even if it is ugly and orange.




I'm sorry, I wasn't too aware of the process when it happened since monero was then barely on my radar when I was just amateurishly mining MROs (when they were still called that). While I respect the move towards identity, at the same time, I'm just slightly put off that it's kind of generic, and that such a decision cannot be easily recalled. But the GUI is beautiful.

Can someone show me why orange and gray were the colors chosen aside from the fact it looks nice (in a generic way), or if there was any deeper symbolism to the logo? not that it matters much but man and his symbols always fascinate me
legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 03, 2014, 11:20:01 AM
Before everyone panics, does anyone have any lawyer friends who could perhaps drop in here and give their opinion?

Personally I love Poloniex and I would hate to see anything happen to them.

edit: https://poloniex.com/icdrequirements

I think it's going to be alright. Poloniex knows what they're doing.

I mean it's quite possible it's as simple as using the right language. Notice Poloniex refers to it only as "Initial Coin Distribution".

Poloniex is registered with USA FINCen nationally as an MSB in the state of Montana.
If they stay in compliance, and don't get in hot water with the SEC, they should be OK unless the legal landscape changes.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
September 03, 2014, 11:03:03 AM
Before everyone panics, does anyone have any lawyer friends who could perhaps drop in here and give their opinion?

Personally I love Poloniex and I would hate to see anything happen to them.

edit: https://poloniex.com/icdrequirements

I think it's going to be alright. Poloniex knows what their doing.
Poloniex and the free market making it's own rules in the wild west of BTC. SEC have more important things to harass.

I hope you are right.

Last thing we need is more innovation stifled by bureaucrats.
sr. member
Activity: 469
Merit: 250
English Motherfucker do you speak it ?
September 03, 2014, 10:48:09 AM
Before everyone panics, does anyone have any lawyer friends who could perhaps drop in here and give their opinion?

Personally I love Poloniex and I would hate to see anything happen to them.

edit: https://poloniex.com/icdrequirements

I think it's going to be alright. Poloniex knows what their doing.
Poloniex and the free market making it's own rules in the wild west of BTC. SEC have more important things to harass.
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
September 03, 2014, 10:29:06 AM
Before everyone panics, does anyone have any lawyer friends who could perhaps drop in here and give their opinion?

Personally I love Poloniex and I would hate to see anything happen to them.

edit: https://poloniex.com/icdrequirements

I think it's going to be alright. Poloniex knows what they're doing.

I mean it's quite possible it's as simple as using the right language. Notice Poloniex refers to it only as "Initial Coin Distribution".
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
September 03, 2014, 10:25:01 AM
And the Poloniex IPO hasn't even started yet
Busoni will be bankrupted by lawsuits in 6 months if that happens.  It would be the end of Poloniex.


I'm sure the language will be corrected.

They've already done similar for Qibucks as I'm sure you know, being a Poloniex regular. Were people there saying similar things about Qibucks when they did the initial sale on Poloniex?

Then it may be too late for poloniex.  I should probably pull my funds.

I don't think anybody even noticed QBK.  What was its high cap?  Enough to justify a lawsuit?


It's Qiwoman's asset backed coin I believe. They sold off 100 BTC of it priced at 20k satoshi if I remember correctly. Bagholders get dividends when the coins that they hold go up I think. Don't quote me on that because I haven't really taken the time to read in to it too much. But I definitely saw the ICO happen live on Poloniex.

edit: qiwoman and jtgangus are the two names I recognize from the troll box that are behind it. Seems there are more though but those are the two names that jump out at me.
legendary
Activity: 1256
Merit: 1009
September 03, 2014, 10:20:49 AM
And the Poloniex IPO hasn't even started yet
Busoni will be bankrupted by lawsuits in 6 months if that happens.  It would be the end of Poloniex.


I'm sure the language will be corrected.

They've already done similar for Qibucks as I'm sure you know, being a Poloniex regular. Were people there saying similar things about Qibucks when they did the initial sale on Poloniex?

Then it may be too late for poloniex.  I should probably pull my funds.

I don't think anybody even noticed QBK.  What was its high cap?  Enough to justify a lawsuit?


Whoa whoa whoa wait.  Hang on ... why is Poloniex gonna go bankrupt?
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
September 03, 2014, 10:17:14 AM
And the Poloniex IPO hasn't even started yet
Busoni will be bankrupted by lawsuits in 6 months if that happens.  It would be the end of Poloniex.


I'm sure the language will be corrected.

They've already done similar for Qibucks as I'm sure you know, being a Poloniex regular. Were people there saying similar things about Qibucks when they did the initial sale on Poloniex?

Then it may be too late for poloniex.  I should probably pull my funds.

I don't think anybody even noticed QBK.  What was its high cap?  Enough to justify a lawsuit?
legendary
Activity: 826
Merit: 1002
amarha
September 03, 2014, 10:13:58 AM
And the Poloniex IPO hasn't even started yet
Busoni will be bankrupted by lawsuits in 6 months if that happens.  It would be the end of Poloniex.


I'm sure the language will be corrected.

They've already done similar for Qibucks as I'm sure you know, being a Poloniex regular. Were people there saying similar things about Qibucks when they did the initial sale on Poloniex?
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1030
Sine secretum non libertas
September 03, 2014, 10:06:29 AM
And the Poloniex IPO hasn't even started yet
Busoni will be bankrupted by lawsuits in 6 months if that happens.  It would be the end of Poloniex.  The IPO is unequivocally illegal under U.S. law.  The exchange will be responsible for any and all losses to investors.

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
Gresham's Lawyer
September 03, 2014, 10:04:49 AM
they insist into calling coins.

Yes, none of the discussion about coins has much to do with coins at all.
I'm with you, but its not a fight I want to take on. 
The language is fluid and the nomenclature deep.  We lost that word, its meaning diluted.  The coin is dead, long live the coin.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
September 03, 2014, 09:56:54 AM
Now once I have reported those transactions and by law also reported (e.g. in the USA IRS Form 1099) the identities of who I have received the coins from and sold them to, then I've reveal my anonymity, the anonymity of the entities I transacted with, and reduced the anonymity set on the block chain for all those who mixed their ring signatures with mine.

Is there anything that you consider out of bounds for taxman? When they take your kids and put them in perpetual slavery, still OK? Oh, wait.. bad example. Take your money when you want to leave country? Oh, wait...

Seems that they have already crossed the line and become enemies of liberty, for many. What more can they do so that you still feel is OK?

Of course you know I feel very emphatically it is all not okay! Which is why I strive for anonymity that (hopefully) won't fail. Because the public is not going to agree to protect me, for they depend on the government. This is called peaking socialism and more and more of the population will become dependent after the economic collapse in 2016.

So the reality I am facing (for those who believe Armstrong's pronouncements), if you have any capital the public is coming after it to steal it (legally of course via the tax man, G20 cooperation, NSA cooperation, 5 eyes cooperation, etc).

unfortunately, the anonymity you want would make it impossible for one to even see oneself's transactions...

Incorrect.
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
September 03, 2014, 09:51:10 AM
Now once I have reported those transactions and by law also reported (e.g. in the USA IRS Form 1099) the identities of who I have received the coins from and sold them to, then I've reveal my anonymity, the anonymity of the entities I transacted with, and reduced the anonymity set on the block chain for all those who mixed their ring signatures with mine.

Is there anything that you consider out of bounds for taxman? When they take your kids and put them in perpetual slavery, still OK? Oh, wait.. bad example. Take your money when you want to leave country? Oh, wait...

Seems that they have already crossed the line and become enemies of liberty, for many. What more can they do so that you still feel is OK?
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
eidoo wallet
September 03, 2014, 09:50:00 AM
Quote
Ring signatures are unwound when the tax authorities require you to provide your password to justify your tax basis.

Use more than 1 wallet? Plausible deniability is such a nice toy. And why password? Give them a viewkey to whatever wallet you want to have exposed. Ideally you can even password protect a wallet with different keys who then unlock whichever viewkey you want to release, like the hiddenos feature of safeguard and truecrypt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption

I am not understanding how you think this helps?

If the tax authorities demand my private keys so they can trace on the block chain from a particular tx that I claim to be my tax basis to the transaction where I am claiming a capital gain, then how does your suggestion alleviate that demand?

Since Monero has private keys, I can't refuse their demand if it is the law.

http://www.nestmann.com/could-the-government-force-you-to-tell-your-deepest-darkest-secrets


...

Neverthless, since it would be difficult to tie a person to an XMR address and then impossible to tie an XMR address to a particular transaction without the txid, it's reasonable to think that it wouldn't be too hard to have two accounts - one that could be provided in the case that a court does force the issue.

At that point, how would they be able to prove that this is the "wrong XMR account"?

If the tax authority wants to trace on the block chain from the transaction that I am claiming is my acquisition point (tax basis) to the transaction I am claiming is my disposal point (capital gain), then as far as I can see possessing a second address or wallet that doesn't trace from the former to the latter on the block chain doesn't help me in any way. Also the I2P layer is irrelevant since I am choosing to tell the tax authorities which txs on the block chains are mine because it may be a reporting requirement.

Now once I have reported those transactions and by law also reported (e.g. in the USA IRS Form 1099) the identities of who I have received the coins from and sold them to, then I've reveal my anonymity, the anonymity of the entities I transacted with, and reduced the anonymity set on the block chain for all those who mixed their ring signatures with mine.

I wrote upthread that anonymity could be unwound for ring signatures if authorities can require you to reveal your private keys (a.k.a. passwords), i.e. allow you to have privacy to the public but not to the government. Astute readers surely smugly ignored me thinking that if the authorities already know your identity in order to require your passwords, then you don't have anonymity. Well this unstated rebuttal falls apart on several levels. One as I said, you revealing your password lowers the anonymity set for those who didn't reveal. Secondly, you may wish to report for tax purposes some funds you bring from the non-reported anonymous world back into the mainstream fiat world, so then the authorities may require you reveal your passwords so they can verify the tax basis you claim for your capital gains. As you know the rulings for example in the USA is that mining is income and the tax basis for capital gains starts at the time of the coinbase transaction.

The reason why people(Myself also) moved from Bitcoin's pseudo-anonymity to better/full anonymity provided by Ring Signatures/Coinjoin, is Because the public would know my entire transaction history if my address was linked to my real identity.

That's the whole point why people created these anonymous currencies in the first place, because Bitcoin allows everyone(Public or not) to see what you're doing with your money, while these anonymous currencies do not, which is what we want. We want for these currencies to truly be "digital cash", where only you and those you share with, can see your transactions, and unfortunately, the anonymity you want would make it impossible for one to even see oneself's transactions, which I don't feel is logical.

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
September 03, 2014, 09:44:44 AM
Quote
Ring signatures are unwound when the tax authorities require you to provide your password to justify your tax basis.

Use more than 1 wallet? Plausible deniability is such a nice toy. And why password? Give them a viewkey to whatever wallet you want to have exposed. Ideally you can even password protect a wallet with different keys who then unlock whichever viewkey you want to release, like the hiddenos feature of safeguard and truecrypt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deniable_encryption

I am not understanding how you think this helps?

If the tax authorities demand my private keys so they can trace on the block chain from a particular tx that I claim to be my tax basis to the transaction where I am claiming a capital gain, then how does your suggestion alleviate that demand?

Since Monero has private keys, I can't refuse their demand if it is the law.

http://www.nestmann.com/could-the-government-force-you-to-tell-your-deepest-darkest-secrets


...

Neverthless, since it would be difficult to tie a person to an XMR address and then impossible to tie an XMR address to a particular transaction without the txid, it's reasonable to think that it wouldn't be too hard to have two accounts - one that could be provided in the case that a court does force the issue.

At that point, how would they be able to prove that this is the "wrong XMR account"?

If the tax authority wants to trace on the block chain from the transaction that I am claiming is my acquisition point (tax basis) to the transaction I am claiming is my disposal point (capital gain), then as far as I can see possessing a second address or wallet that doesn't trace from the former to the latter on the block chain doesn't help me in any way. Also the I2P layer is irrelevant since I am choosing to tell the tax authorities which txs on the block chains are mine because it may be a reporting requirement.

Now once I have reported those transactions and by law also reported (e.g. in the USA IRS Form 1099) the identities of who I have received the coins from and sold them to, then I've revealed my anonymity, the anonymity of the entities I transacted with, and reduced the anonymity set on the block chain for all those who mixed their ring signatures with mine.

I wrote upthread that anonymity could be unwound for ring signatures if authorities can require you to reveal your private keys (a.k.a. passwords), i.e. allow you to have privacy to the public but not to the government. Astute readers surely smugly ignored me thinking that if the authorities already know your identity in order to require your passwords, then you don't have anonymity. Well this unstated rebuttal falls apart on several levels. One as I said, you revealing your password lowers the anonymity set for those who didn't reveal. Secondly, you may wish to report for tax purposes some funds you bring from the non-reported anonymous world back into the mainstream fiat world, so then the authorities may require you reveal your passwords so they can verify the tax basis you claim for your capital gains. As you know the rulings for example in the USA is that mining is income and the tax basis for capital gains starts at the time of the coinbase transaction.


You may think this is unlikely but I can vouch for example there is a bank secrecy law in the Philippines which the TPTB have not been able to repeal, so the SOBs have apparently paid (or somehow fooled) the risk management departments into sending SMS every time there is a transaction on your account (if you are an American at least), thus the authorities know everything that is going on in your bank account. Bank secrecy thus nullified.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
September 03, 2014, 09:25:22 AM
Boolberry is a name I can imagine will be used everywhere in the world.
I can already hear the conversation of the lady in the supermarket saying to my grand mother "That'll be 32 boolberries, thx"
 Grin

In the Philippines, the bagger boys at the checkout counter will definitely be giggling and whispering, "grandma asked for 32 bulbols".

honey, ang kapal ng bulbol mo, ahitin mo naman.


(pubic hairs)
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
September 03, 2014, 09:23:28 AM
whateber, haters gonna hate me...

lol, i'm 22yo...

I felt no animosity towards you at all. I wasn't involved in the argument between you two, I was just pointing out you can't delete posts because they are archived else where. Just trying to help you out. Regarding your prior interest in Dogecoin, it taught me some valuable information about the market.
legendary
Activity: 3164
Merit: 1118
September 03, 2014, 09:21:27 AM
Boolberry is a name I can imagine will be used everywhere in the world.
I can already hear the conversation of the lady in the supermarket saying to my grand mother "That'll be 32 boolberries, thx"
 Grin

"That'll be 32 boolberries, thx"  sounds like a Snack or type of Fruit/Vegetable, or Cereal.

The #1 choice of breakfast cereal for jewish space lobster doctors around the universe!
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
September 03, 2014, 09:00:17 AM
Boolberry is a name I can imagine will be used everywhere in the world.
I can already hear the conversation of the lady in the supermarket saying to my grand mother "That'll be 32 boolberries, thx"
 Grin

"That'll be 32 boolberries, thx"  sounds like a Snack or type of Fruit/Vegetable, or Cereal.
sr. member
Activity: 469
Merit: 250
English Motherfucker do you speak it ?
September 03, 2014, 07:57:37 AM
Boolberry is a name I can imagine will be used everywhere in the world.
I can already hear the conversation of the lady in the supermarket saying to my grand mother "That'll be 32 boolberries, thx"
 Grin
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