Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 348. (Read 73512 times)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60916098


"mutual trust" my ass. Russian forces have been stalled there for a month with and Ukrainians started to counterattack.

If Axis won WW2, you would only hear narrative about them defending...same as Americans today don't say "we did war crime by dropping
two A-bombs on civilians" but you hear "we did it to prevent loss of life by both USA soldiers and Japan civilians and soldiers"


Also, Romans were spreading democracy and culture to barbarians 

I think that the first thing you need to stay competitive is having a country. If you are feeding a bear, he will bite you, so competitiveness at the cost of an existential threat is out of anyone's table. Before this war, I was already quite surprised of how close Germany was getting to Russia, but I thought they had really good reasons or leverage that I just was not in the know. Apparently, they did not.

Commodities and resources markets are usually quite "perfect" in the theoretical sense - products from Russia are no cheaper, they are just market price and easy to transport and, mid to long term, replaceable. A question we should be asking ourselves is why Putin is willing to sell to "unfriendly" countries as well. Seems that he cannot do without either? I am not sure that EU will accept paying in rubles. It may be the case of a pissing contest coming.

Just to put in context: Germany pays for the gas and funds Putin's war and then Putin send the gas to feed the industry that eventually produces the weapons that will kill the Russian young soldiers. Seems like everyone wins. Well, almost.

On regards to Germany "helping" the South Europe... Germany only helps Germany. Anything from them comes with strong strings attached.

Long term countries and markets adjust to newer circumstances and, as said, while Putin remains in power Russia is an unreliable partner, does not abide by any international law and cannot be assumed to honour commercial contracts.


I am afraid there are many historical examples in which countries clearly understood they were the attackers. Germans will recognise that Hitler attacked Poland. I am not going to dig into Vikings, Mongols, Huns, Romans and others that were perfectly conscious of being on the offensive.

No country ever attacked another country, if you ask people of said country.

100k Poland people mass suicided, just so they could accuse Bandera

There were no threats to russia from Ukraine, Ukraine has never attacked any country, never in its history. We are a peaceful people and have not threatened anyone. What is happening now is an invasion based on false propaganda. Most Russians support this and this is not normal in a civilized world, such a crime cannot be left unpunished, every guilty person will answer for it.

I meant for NATO to attack Russia, we all know it'll be only one country making that call. After bombing of Yugoslavia NATO cannot technically be called a "defensive" pact. If US declares war on Russia it'll do it under NATO no-fly zone, NATO intervention etc... Russia will have 30 nations declaring war on it and start attacking its air force. And people are willing to bet their lives that Russia won't use it's nuke arsenal under such circumstances? US used nukes on Japan for much dumber reasons.


US is the biggest unknown. Not a fan of Trump but with upcoming food shortages and gas prices, it's just too easy for a populist to win, Biden's ratings are already down and we're at the top of the hype. Think Biden is a lost cause, and that's an additional headache for EU. Consequences of their decision with Russia will be long term and painful, where any promises of support from US can flip in 2 years. Anyone seriously think that Trump will keep EU as a priority vs making America great once again, especially when China will be overtaking US?


Trades happen because they're beneficial for both parties, have you considered that maybe those cheap(er) natural resources what helped Germany become/stay where they are now? Do you think it can continue to stay competitive in global economy with it's high labor costs and now with natural resources say costing 20% more over China? Really doubt that their margins are that high. Germany already had to support economies of Greece, Portugal, Cyprus... pretty sure they didn't care and were fine with UA as it was pre 2014, and thinking WTF are you doing when US decided to hand out those freedom cookies. Don't see a good way out for them, oil/gas is a commodity, so it doesn't really matter how you shuffle it around the globe, all you're doing is making distribution less efficient. Freedom LNG from US would be at 20% premium and still won't cover their needs. Now on April 1st EU will have to start buying rubles to pay for gas while somehow trying to save face. One thing Russia has going for it is that after hitting the bottom it's hard to fall any lower, but EU still has a lot at risk and stuck between a rock and a hard place. These events can be a footnote in global history where (outside of UA) in 10yrs most won't remember it or it can end it.

Putin is like an abusive ex-husband who comes to talk to you and beats you up, then tells you he loves you.

Anyway, the main objective was to reunite Ukraine with the rest of the Russian empire. He simply does not see any path forward unless
Ukraine is part of Russia. Without Ukraine, the rest of his plan, the annexation of Baltic countries, Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria will not work.

Putin will not give up. This is his goal and he is very determined.
Even if he signs an' agreement' today, in a few years he will be back knocking on Ukraine's door for the rest of the territory.

So unless Ukrainians physically stop him, the grind will continue.

The talk about only eastern parts is just a distraction. He is regrouping and will attack Kyiv in a couple of weeks. And I suspect he will start with carpet bombing, then he will send land forces. Maybe he will convince Lukashenko to send his troops.

The objective of the operation has not changed.

Ukraine needs to continue destroying tanks and artillery. Without those, his forces will not be able to make progress on land.

So unless the West steps up and sends planes, tanks, anti-tank weaponry, Ukraine is for a long grinding, genocidal war, and a 90%
destruction of cities and infrastructure.

---

Putin is not fighting in Ukraine, Russians are.

80% of Russians support this war.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

I don't have FT subscription, but found some more details on Russian BBC website:
https://cutt.ly/eDvJcH4
From this article it seems that Russia only don't agree about Ukraine joining NATO. They don't want to denazify and demilitarize Ukraine. They are even OK with Ukraine joining EU. In whole context for me it doesn't sounds realistic, despite that FT is not some yellow press. But if it's true, it's interesting how Bitcointalk trolls will react to it.

It's Mariupol. People can't be even buried properly because of never ending shooting. Streets is full of dead people. They have no other choice than bury them in the yards and gardens:
https://www.rferl.org/a/mariupol--escape-russian-siege-ukraine/31771645.html
It's something terrible what's happening in this city and it's hard to find words to describe what's going on there.

Putin, not Russia IMHO.

I still can’t believe how long this has been going on. Absolutely terrible that civilians are dying as a result of Russia’s actions. I’m reading reports that there are cities where the dead aren’t even being cleaned up. They’re just littering the streets. Now you’re hearing about Ukrainian soldiers shooting captive Russian soldiers in the kneecaps. It’s just a lose-lose situation for everyone involved. It’s dumbfounding how this type of conflict can exist today. Russia’s claims appear a bit paranoid and they’re coming off a bit like the United States as we invaded Iraq for imaginary weapons.

FT reports that Putin may no longer demand "denazification":

https://www.ft.com/content/7f14efe8-2f4c-47a2-aa6b-9a755a39b626 (paywall)


This might be a tough time for Kremlin-paid bitcointalkers so please be kind to them while they are waiting for new talking points and are trying to forget everything they said about nazis in Ukraine.

In reality of course it's all bullshit because nothing Putin says or does can be trusted.

Ukraine is a multi-ethnic country. They just don't want to be ruled by Russia.
Ukrainians don't want the autocratic Soviet-style system that currently governs Russia.

So, if Ukrainians are patriotic, they are ultra-nationalist Nazis, but Russian ultra-nationalists are just patriotic?

Are Polish and Romanian patriots also ultra-nationalist Nazis?

How about the Komi peoples? Or any other 200 ethnic peoples conquered by Russians.

BTW, less than 50% of the population of 'Russia' is ethnically Russian.

False. A referendum requires effective peace, international observers, and agreed right to participation, and public discussion. There has not been any vote or referendum with the minimum guarantees of democracy and fairness, just a faked putsch that not even the most ignorant would accept. From your own reference article:


I hope that whoever the new "s..hole" results is better at filmaking.

Sooner or later someone had to replace North Korea is the official shi|t hole of the world
Roses Have Thorns (Part 6) The Odessa Massacre
https://youtu.be/QxcB0PI4ZLg

Tash,

We've been over this.  

If you're so concerned about Nazis, then it should be the ones running the Donetsk People's Republic, not the ones in Ukraine that have no political power.  

From your own link:

Answered over and over, Putin has been supporting the paramilitary pro-annexation. Putin has tried to make the case for a genocide in international institutions and failed to provide any evidence. Putin would not go to war on the ground of anyone being killed except himself, he is one of the major murderers of the XXI centuries and cares only about himself and his business.

Launching over and over links with propaganda and inundating a thread with images will not prevent a more productive discussion for those who wish to have one. It may work in Putin's Tzardom where people cannot have access to different views, but it does not work here. Whoever is paying you is wasting the money they need to dig graves for the soldiers.



Seriously? Do you think this is a Indiana Jones movie??

And the over 16000 deaths in the last 8 years?

How the Nazis defend

The Yunarmiya exists in Russia, has a patriotic ideology and a power orientation. But this is not Nazism - simply because Russia is a very multinational country, different religions, different language groups, Russia's ideology is supranational and its political ambitions are more of an imperial nature.

Ukraine has a birth trauma from the break with Russia after the collapse of the USSR, and it elevated its nationalism to the absolute, making it radical. Ukraine had a chance to build its own future - original and free, if it overcame its inferiority complex and did not rely on anti-Russian rhetoric. You yourself became dependent on the United States and chose the path of a puppet.

and what exactly is Юнapмия doing to young Russians?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiBOpkiDha0

Ultra-nationalist much?

All Ukrainians love THEIR country. That is about it.

The tragedy of this military adventure is that a lot of Ukrainians and Kacaps will die.

Putin will achieve nothing. Ukraine will stay where it is, where it always was.

All he did, was he united Ukraine. He united the world/NATO against Russia.

The longer he continues his atrocities the less sympathy the ordinary Russians will get anywhere in the world.

He is fucking up pretty much anything he touches.

It looks like you are a Nazi vulgaris, which in principle is not surprising. I respect the Ukrainian people, their rich history of music, art and literature, but the ultra-right nationalist propaganda that has been implanted as the dominant ideology in the western regions of Ukraine since childhood is turning your people into a herd of mindless jumping baboons, openly chanting anti-Russian chants. I don’t understand what’s the point of setting up this zoo in the center of Europe and instilling in fragile minds the idea of ​​the superiority of the Ukrainian race and that everyone owes you something. Bullying prisoners is the current level of your civilization, and this is very sad.