Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 343. (Read 73526 times)

Thats easy:

https://thepressunited.com/updates/zelensky-rejected-peace-offer-days-before-russian-offensive-wsj/

I think that is actually true...but then there are USA and UK out there than don't like it...and they play that card for 100+ years already

I normally would not answer to your post, as they seem just links for an algorithm or pure crap, but the look of this pic is just too much. Please, on which day did WJS publish this you say?

In any case, again trying to put the blame on a country for simply deciding for itself where they want to be in the future, as is some divine right assisted Putin in telling them what they can or cannot do.

If there is no desire for peace there wont be any, simple as that.
5 days before it all started

You describe a relationship when one dominates someone else, or when someone depends on another, so he is forced to obey. This is how a lot of things are arranged in Russia, where children in kindergartens are put on their knees and lined up in the letter "Z"¹, where teachers in schools are forced to tell propaganda to children², and parents should help repair the school³. When you sit shut up at work, and everyone around admires how well the neighboring country is being destroyed. There are simply a huge number of such examples in Russia, and all this is based on people's fear for their lives and the lives of their family. But you forgot one thing: it is not acceptable in Europe, unlike Russia, human rights are respected there, there is a legal regime, corruption is not a generally accepted phenomenon. Therefore, when Putin's officials talk rudely at the international level or openly lie, Europe does not get worse from this, it only shows that it is simply not pleasant to conduct a civilized dialogue with Russia and it is better to end it. Europe should not grovel before Putin, as they have pride and the right to choose, unlike Russian citizens. In all the anti-Russian policy that is growing now and has been in the last decades, the Russian government is solely to blame, and no one except the Russian government has had such a strong influence on anti-Russian sentiment in the world. I think everyone knows the expression "shoot yourself in the foot." So this expression fits very many actions of Putin's officials for many years.

1. https://euroradio.fm/ru/ponimaet-li-zapad-chto-pytaetsya-dogovoritsya-s-zombirovannymi
2. https://meduza.io/feature/2022/03/05/osvoboditelnaya-missiya-na-ukraine-eto-neobhodimost
3. https://rg.ru/2013/10/10/reg-szfo/shkola.html

In your view, has Putin's army committed any war crime?

The evidence found are extensive, it would take an army of people just to produce the amount of photographic material, witnesses and declarations. It is simply impossible to hide or deny. The behaviour of the troop  in many locations is from criminal to sub-human and that does not happen without orders.

And just so you do not feel we do not read your crap, there is also abundant evidence that both the maternity and the theatre attacks did happen, were civilians targets and are war crimes, but that is only but the tip of what is being found.

Now, you can move on to the "excuse & whatabout" department of your controllers to provide more excuses and "whattabouts", but the problem of crimes in an modern country with good comms, good satelite coverage and abundance of means to document facts is that you just cannot lie your way out of it. There will be reports, these will be issued by credible organisations and audited by neutral parties and there will be no way that anyone with access to reasonably independent media will believe Putins parallel reality.

And make no mistake, there are consequences of having a country ruled by a known war criminal.


Europe does not hate Russia. Europe has tried to bring Russia into the world commerce and partnerships that allow the development of countries and the progress of the people. Under Putin, Russia cannot be part of this world - imperfect yes - but of progress and (reasonable) freedom.

This war has never been about Nazis. You want to drive the discussion there, but there is simply not a point to hold to. If something is clear in Europe is that Nazis are not welcome in governments.

It's easy to become an enemy of Russia. They made a list of "unfriendly countries" and on the list we have:
Australia, Canada, All of the EU, Iceland, Monaco, Montenegro, New Zealand, Norway, Taiwan, San Marino, Singapore, South Korea, Switzerland, UK and of course US.

All you have to do is condemn the invasion of Ukraine and you're the enemy.

BTW, Ukraine is also listed as "unfriendly"


You're repeating pure Russian propaganda. Those scientists who you're quoting got their scripts straight from the KGB.
The fact that Russia is constantly aiming at restoring its borders from the time of the Soviet Union does not mean that other countries feel the same. As a matter of fact, Russia actively attacked Polish border by sending its agents to Belarus in order to create a fake refugee crisis. Some of the people who were captured trying to cross Polish border from Belarus stated that they flew to Moscow by planes and were then moved by buses to Belarus and told that if they manage to cross the border they will be accepted in the EU and be able to freely travel to Germany and France. This was done to focus Western NATO on the border with Belarus instead of Ukraine. There are even videos of soldiers cutting Polish border fences and aiming laser beams at border patrols to blind them and provoke to use force.

I've seen reports of Russian trolls who were Spreading lies in EU countries, telling people that Ukrainian refugees will take their jobs and Ukrainian women will take their husbands
At the same time Russians were forcing Ukrainians to fight against their countrymen, moving people to Russia by force and then leaving them to freeze in buses, attacking humanitarian corridors and Red Cross warehouses.

Saying that countries who are helping Ukraine are doing it because they secretly want to attack it and annex is such a stupid and baseless claim that only those idiots who worked in Russian web brigades in Ghana could make it up.

In the U.S., this fodder has been sucked into the so-called ANTIFA and BLM for the most part leaving few left-overs for the ultra-right to use.

There was a fake in the maternity hospital, there was also a fake in the theater, why is it not a fake here? As Hitler said in Mein Kampf, "The more monstrous the lie, the more likely it will be believed." According to another version, this is a quote from the Goebbels manual, but radish horseradish is not sweeter. Apparently, the Ukrainian media follow the precepts of their ideological inspirers.

In Ukraine, the glorification of Nazism took place for many years, in Kyiv, thousands of torch marches were held annually in honor of the SS division of Galicia, consisting of Ukrainian nationalists. Numerous monuments and museums of Bandera, streets and avenues named after him in forty cities in Ukraine. The Nazi battalion "Azov" is part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on a regular basis. You are right, there are ultra-right nationalists in different countries of Europe, and I think in Russia too. But usually these are all sorts of hooligans, drug addicts and freaks, but in Ukraine it is an open mainstream and a unifying national idea.

I think many of you saw photos from Buch city where streets is full of ded people, men killed with their hands tied and people buried in mass grave. Guess how Russian defense ministry reacted to it. Everything is staged and faked by Kiev to show it for foreign media and while city was under control of Russia, none of civilians weren't hurt:
https://ria.ru/20220403/minoborony-1781557525.html

Like I said before, you and many other Russians see Nazis everywhere, but it's more like looking for skeletons in th closet. Russia need to find imaginary enemy to justify ther actions. You can find far-right movements around Europe, including Russia, but it's so insignificant and small and they don't play any role to pay much attention to them.
Russophobia is another thing, but it's that Russians aren't liked without any reason. Simply every action have consquences.

That's a really absurd misinterpretation of what Arestovich said. He was certain that Putin will inevitably start a full-scale war against Ukraine, based on Putin's actions over the prior decade or two. That doesn't mean he (or Zelensky, or the Ukrainian government) wanted it, let alone could somehow make Putin attack Ukraine.


There is plenty of other proof now coming out of regions where Russian forces retreated. Burned bodies on roads etc. I don't know why you're trying to muddy the water here with Kremlin propaganda. Of course they'll deny it.

War is war, but this is something else.

There are no bigger enemies than politicians, anywhere in the world.
https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/there-is-no-contract-for-natural-gas-between-gazprom-in-russia-and-germany

The Russian propaganda Telegram channel denies this accusation. Among other things, they refer to this video "Shocking footage of peaceful civilians in Bucha being shot by Rashists", claiming that the bodies are "moving" at 12 15 and 30 seconds. However, other commentators say that these are not "moving bodies", but the effect due to wet glass.

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The Ukrainian and Russian sides are now both actively clearing the information field in the context of a military conflict. After February 24, many opposition channels in Russia that had been operating for decades were closed and Roskomnadzor by decision of the Prosecutor General's Office closed access to many Ukrainian and west media. In its turn, Ukrainian president banned pro-Russian parties in Ukraine and also united all national media on one platform.

There is a popular expression that rebellion in Russia is senseless and merciless. Revolutions in Russia turn into a bloody massacre and a social catastrophe (Time of Troubles, Pugachev's Rebellion, Russian Civil War, etc). Russian riot sweeps everything in its path, so the Russians endure their rulers to the very end, that's why the Russian rulers so brazenly rob and humiliate people - rulers hope apparently that patience of people will not end during their lifetime. Revolutions in Russia are successful only when the Russian army supports the citizens.

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If compare the Russian "Wagner Group" and the Ukrainian "Azov Battalion", the difference between them is that the "Wagner Group" is an unofficial private organization, while "Azov" is the official unit of the National Guard of Ukraine. US Congress recognized "Azov" as a neo-Nazi entity and banned the supply of weapons to them. According to The Economist the Wagner Group is called "Putin's private army", because the head of Ukraine’s security services called it that. But in addition to the words of a Ukrainian official, are there any evidence?

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I wonder if Polish civilians see a threat to their own security that the Ukrainian government is persistently trying to make Stepan Bandera as a national hero, who is directly linked with the mass murders of Polish civilians during the Second World War. The fact that Bandera is a hero for some modern Ukrainians, the President Zelensky considers as "a normal and cool thing". In the present Ukraine streets are named after Stepan Bandera and torchlight processions are held with his portraits along the central streets of Kyiv, surrounded by the National Guard. Whether or not, some political scientists explain the activity of the Polish government (including the desire to use the peacekeeping contingent) by the wish to return control over the western regions of Ukraine, which in the past belonged to Poland.

It should be clarified that these missiles hit the Yavoriv military base where foreign mercenaries were trained. If I'm not confusing anything, there were rumors before this strike that Russian troops were not going to attack the western part of Ukraine.

I gave you video of Zelensky advisor where he says they want Russia to attack them. But you don't watch videos, and
somehow my opinion is more important to you, than Zelensky's advisor.

Why is that? Do you think my opinion  more important to Zelensky than his own advisor?

Even if Europe does not have a better solution, this is not a reason to apply a bad solution, simply because they could not come up with anything better. Cultivating Russophobia and thereby encouraging the manifestations of Nazism in Europe is not very smart against the backdrop of the operation to "denazify" Ukraine. Europe should seriously consider its behavior towards Russia, given that Europe depends on Russia, it seems much more than Russia depends on Europe. Nazism did not fall on Ukraine from an unknown distance, Nazism was and remains the highest stage in the development of European philosophical thought - and this is a serious problem in Europe, because Nazism is unacceptable to Russia.
 
#StopHatingRussians

https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/370815748

Criminal gangs formerly known as Russian military forces retreat while killing witnesses:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60967463


Minimizing civilian casualties I guess. Could have killed 2000 but didn't.

I am not sure what you consider all things in this context, despite that, there is a difference between a democracy and a despotic regime. In a democracy, the people of a country are to blame for unethical behaviours of their countries, however in a Tzardom, at most they can be blamed for not revolting or being, mostly, apathic about it.

I agree with you. Putin destroyed free press and opposition. But even if don't beleive in polls, all things shows that majority of people support war in Ukraine. One reasons of it is that they see one truth on TV and media is washing their brain for few decades. They blame NATO and US for this war, or as @xandry said -  pindos and geyropa. And these who don't support it, they keep silent because they simply fear to ruin lifes for themselves and their families.

Polls and support in a country where the opposition is send to jail, there is a law that penalises with 15 years saying anything else than the "official truth" and, in general, has demolished systematically any dissenting voice means very little.

We tend to forget that one of the pillars of a Democracy is free press. The fact that a candidate is "elected" means nothing when the electorate is kept in the dark.