Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 374. (Read 75494 times)

I wonder how accurate Putin's intelligence is. I don't mean Russian intelligence, I mean the parts of it that are communicated directly to Putin.
I mean, if you are a senior Russian official, are you going to tell Putin the unvarnished truth, or are you going to tell him what he wants to hear (or at least spin it a little bit that way)?

If you're an autocrat, then you're surrounded by 'yes men'. If you ask one of them if you can take Ukraine within a week, what's the answer going to be?

It looks like Ukraine was supposed to be defeated by Saturday. Russian state news agency published an article about "new world" (or "new peace"; never ceases to amuse me how "world" and "peace" is the same word in Russian but I digress), which sounds a lot like a declaration of victory. Then promptly took it down.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220226051154/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html

It's difficult to frame it as 'woke radicalisation' when the antipathy towards Putin encompasses pretty much the entire world. Even China - hardly a friend of the west - is abstaining in the UN instead of supporting Russia.
It's basically Putin plus his puppet Lukashenko vs everyone else. It might be worth considering whether it's Putin's actions that is causing everyone to unite against him, rather than some delusion (or wafer-thin excuse?) of a global Russophobia.

Protest participants receive 15 days of arrest or fines. This is how single pickets take place: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EXJx7IrGiKU
If a person was detained in this way three times in six months, then a fine of 600 thousand rubles (about $ 6,000) or imprisonment for a period of 5 years. If you just share someone else's post, where they call to go to protest actions, then this is an arrest for a month. These are not just excerpts from the legislation. Russians have been vividly demonstrated for years the use of these articles on oppositionists and their followers.
If you wrote something like "I am against the war" somewhere in social networks, then this is already a risk. Today I heard a statesman call the Ukrainian troops terrorists, and the media that share information referring to them - accomplices of terrorists.
There are already rumors that people may be persecuted simply for speaking out against the war. In fact, the Russian media is basically forbidden to call it a war.
I doubt that people abroad, who are calling for protests, even understand what is happening inside Russia.

I live in Russia and I have a ticket to Georgia on my hands. Russia also spoiled relations with Georgia a few years ago, so a connecting flight in Turkey and in time it will take more than 10 hours (I hope Turkey will not cancel the air service by then). The price of tickets is growing every day, because now there is an increased demand and those who realize what is happening are abandoning their homes and trying to leave Russia while it is possible.
I have never supported Putin or even his party. Seeing that the situation in Russia is getting worse, last year I planned to sell all my property and leave Russia with my family. As a result, I was only a few months short of implementing my plan. My savings in rubles, which previously would have been enough to live modestly another year in Russia, have significantly depreciated and it will continue to get worse. Prices for equipment have already increased by almost 50%, the rest of the goods will probably react a little later.
The borders are closed and those who did not have time to leave become hostages of the regime. People will simply work and continue to deduct a huge percentage from wages in the form of taxes to the state, thereby supporting the regime against which sanctions are directed. For example with each of my purchases in any store, I have a tax deducted that will support this state. Thus, some the sanctions will work to maintain the regime.
I have constantly heard before about the struggle for human rights, about independence and other wonderful values that are just as close to me, but sanctions in the form of closing borders and lack of support for ordinary citizens seem to say "Russians are not worthy of this, we are absolutely indifferent to their fate." The few remaining oppositionists and human rights defenders in Russia who are close in spirit to European values also turned out to be just Russian garbage. That's how equality works.

I am not from Russia. I dont know the real situation there, I get only what social media show me. Sadly, I dont know what to offer them or what is the solution to their situation. I think that all anti-Putin campaigns and actions will repeat "Orange revolution" and "Donbass" situations and consequences on Russian territory. I expect the world will have Ukraine 2.0 on Russian territory, and long financial crisis.

What I know, that during president election in 2018, 3/4 of all votes were for him. In addition there were those who did not vote. I count that 1/4 of Russian population is suffering from sanctions and etc. Some people made wrong decisions, and now "all those Russians" turned bad immediately. I bet there are places right now where you are got punched in the face for being Russian, even though you did nothing wrong.

I am sick and tired from all that crap from TV. "Stop Russia", "Russians are bad". The people who made decisions are bad. Why blame whole nation when mistakes were done by few people. For example if I in the US I got robbed by a black person and start a picket "Black people are criminals", "Black lives matter" community will disassemble me into molecules next minute.

I dont know who I am really is. Born in USSR, speak Russian, have non-Russian nationality and live in European country. I dont have any connections to Russia. I was only there several times on excursion or passing by. But when I speak Russian on public people look at me like I was that person who bombed Kiev or fired an automatic burst on civilians hour ago.

Sick.

Negotiations between Russia and Ukraine started in border with Belarus. But it's difficult to expect results from it. Russia doesn't seem to be open for talk because they already went too far.
Wagner group fighters are in Kyiv now. It's private fighters from Russia who were in Syria war previously. Their task here - kill Zelensky.
@suchmoon already said one point why it's wrong comparison. I'll add another one. Poland and Baltic states have joined NATO long time ago. We have American troops there, but did it made Russia vulnerable or created danger for them? I think Ukraine should have decide themselves what they want to do with their country future.

I'm sorry for innocent Russian people who will have to suffer, but what you're offering? How to prove that someone is anti-Putin? Or they shouldn't make sanctions to Russia?
I don't know, maybe when people in Russia will start to suffer from sanctions, maybe they won't be silent anymore.

Believe me its not possible to talk sanity and balance into these people,
especially if you consider the woke radicalisation that is fueling this anti putin hatred.

There are people who did not vote for Putin, are against his politics and were not able to leave Russian, but not suffer from sanctions and etc. Is whole world is going to help them? Maybe collect donations for them? Or help them to leave?Or it is their problem that they were born in Russia? Or we have double standards? Bunch of people cant agree on something, due to that nations now suffer, but call for help is only for one side.

It's the anti-Ukraine propaganda that's convinced you that anyone is trying to convince anyone that there aren't corruption issues in Ukraine.  

Typical right wing victim shaming.  No different than every time a white cop kills a black guy or a woman accuses someone they like of sexual assault.

By the way, guess who's responsible for more corruption in Ukraine than any other person?  Same guy that's responsible for the invasion.

Putin is a maniac, he needs to be stopped.

Just when diplomacy was active, Putin started suddenly invading Ukraine, an independent country. He's a crazy idiot.
I hope, we can deliever enough defensive weapons to Ukraine in time as a defense for Ukraine.

Putin killed so many people already and it's just 4 days of war.
He should be accused as a war criminal in Den Hague

This boggles my mind.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-invasion-ukraine-kills-352-civilians-including-14-children-2022-02-27

So Russia is loosing 10 soldiers and 2 armored vehicles ... for every civilian death? This is either the most humane military "operation" (comparing to Kosovo, Iraq, Syria etc...) or the numbers are way off, fog of war?

There isn't really any plausible strategic interest for Russia (as in Russian people, or Russian Federation; not the current clown dictator) to make Ukraine an impoverished, oppressed, resentful nation by attempting to invade it. It's just madman's dream to turn history back. This never works. And the Soviet history is horrid. No sane person wants a repeat of that.

Lecturing Ukrainians to stay neutral is no different than telling them to join Russia. They should treat any such "advice" like they treated that Russian warship.

This six years old lecture sums thing very well. I wish more and more Ukrainian would understand the politics of West.

I agree it was a false equivalent but I was trying to make a point by this. Here you have the real equivalence, from 25:19th minute - 26:20 minute.

I did not mean to make it right, please don't get me wrong. What I meant is that it's obviously wrong for anyone to invade other country who are independent. But for strategic interests world leaders are doing is from the beginning.  

Anyway, here is the key point of this lecture.



44:40th minute to 45:17 minute summed up everything for Ukrainians.

/Link edited.

 

False equivalence. Canada was not subject to US occupation for decades or centuries prior to this hypothetical scenario, so it's unlikely to look for protection against a potential US military invasion the way Eastern Europe looks for protection against a potential (and now very real) Russian invasion.

But even if it was somehow a valid example, it would be wrong for the US to invade Canada in such circumstances and it is wrong for Russia to invade Ukraine. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.


Roughly zero, because protests are illegal and they get arrested as soon as they try to.

And how many of those 144.1 million people are on the streets of Russian cities protesting against the aggression their government is committing against other nations?

This is your situation, I am sorry.

Here is where the main problem - NATO.

Imagine (hypothetically) there is a preparation for Canada to ally with Russia what would you think US would do. Just allow Canada to give Canadian land for Russian troops and make America vulnerable? The world leaders need power, they are power hungry and your precedent is just a bait for them.

LOL I came here to post this.

I'm still amazed how there are scattered small groups or even lone tanks/BMPs just riding across the country... what lunatic planned this "operation" (rhetorical question).

Here is the latest from the Russian front:

https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1498023662695419910

How do you occupy a country with people who will do anything to harm you?

Putin is done.

To be frank, this is the problem of the Russians themselves, since they themselves allow one person to decide their fate, therefore their government easily suppresses their inner voice. But in reality, the people should be tough and assertive, then the government will listen to the people.

In 2014, a revolution took place in Ukraine, and although I do not approve of its consequences, since 70% of the protesters received money for this and, as a result, Poroshenko became the president, the same bastard as his predecessor ... these events turned into something more, for the first time in In Ukraine, the president was democratically elected (in 2019) and now Zelensky has done more than all past presidents combined since 1991.

China is hoping that western governments will be scared to help Ukraine. They are on the side of Russia. China has similar ambissions for Taiwan. 

Putin took months to build up his military, and while he was doing so, he claimed to be doing military exercises. This gave the people of Ukraine time to be aware of the threat of a pending invasion, and it makes the pretext that Putin is using for the invasion clearly false without even knowing the details of Putin's allligations.

Russian soldiers appear to be demoralized, and do not appear to believe in what they are fighting for. There are reports that the solders were told they were going to the Ukraine border for exercises, not for war. There are reports that Russian solders are surrendering without even taking any fire.

Putin is known to take big risks by western standards. He also owes his power to the oligarchs in his country, some of whom have faced increasingly stiff sanctions in recent years. The KGB does not have the same surveillance capabilities that China does, so it is difficult for Putin to truly know who is and isn't loyal.

It is also possible that Putin is unsure of who he can trust inside his inner circle. The west exposed Putin's plan to execute a false flag attack well ahead of time and may have made public the planned invasion date ahead of time. Both suggest that Putin has leaks coming from his inner circle.

It is not uncommon for peace talks to be held in person. Although asking to have the talks in a country that is not neutral does pose a risk to the Ukraine deligation, and does smell like a trap.