even US is on the look regarding any emergency call from NATO to see into the situation as it calls for a suspicious alarming mounting of about 100,000 troops warning against any threat or invasion on Ukraine else they will suffer the cost and bear any economic lost while US has begin a gradual withdrawal of it citizens from their embassy in Moscow amidst fear of sudden invassion before the end of 2022.
Russia though denied having any plan to invade Ukraine but the main thing they want and as thought from my perspective is for Ukraine to withdraw from NATO. Also want Ukraine to be Under them since they have and share similar culture and that to stop receiving ammunition support from NATO and US.
Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 382. (Read 75434 times)
They are trying to recreate Soviet Union by increasing their influence over Central Europe and weakening their Western neighbors. They're building Nord Stream for that exact purpose.
Yes, that's kind of the point I'm trying to make.
Maybe they will send in the tanks, maybe they won't, but it's difficult to determine how much of it is brinkmanship and bravado. Russia's recent history demonstrates that more subtle approaches, elections, gas pipelines, even individual assassinations, have been hugely effective tools by which to achieve their aims.
I'm fairly certain that if they invade Ukraine, the UN, NATO and the EU will issue formal letters to Putin, maybe even call him, then do some reconnaissance flights, drop some aid packages, accept refugees and that's going to be it.
Yes, this is the big question. I'd certainly agree that if Russia conclude there will be no real opposition, then the tanks will roll across the border. I'm just suggesting that tanks are also a hugely effective tool of intimidation, which can be a goal in itself. As to whether to actually press ahead, Russia has to consider very carefully what form it thinks any reaction would take. They won't act until they've weighed up the consequences.
If they don't want Ukraine to be part of NATO, then what's the answer? Russia takes Ukraine, and it becomes part of Russia, and then Russia borders Poland and Romania, so "we don't want Poland/Romania to be part of NATO" ... If this is the main concern, then the only solution for Russia is to take over all of mainland Europe. Estonia, Latvia etc have been in NATO for years, and it may have been a kick in the Baltics for Russia, but why would Ukraine be the concern?
This is exactly their goal. They are trying to recreate Soviet Union by increasing their influence over Central Europe and weakening their Western neighbors. They're building Nord Stream for that exact purpose. Before Nord Stream they only had "yamal", which they used to transfer gas to Germany through Poland, but that did not allow them to cut supplies to Poland without doing the same to Germany. Now they can do it and they are doing it. Last time I checked Poland was forced to get their gas straight from Katar because Russia upped the prices on them so much that it was cheaper to send ships to another continent.
Do you know how you can recognize a country scared of, or already involved in an armed conflict? By conscription. Countries who still have it must have a need for it, because statistics have shown that conscripted armies are not as well equipped, trained, and more expensive than volunteers. Most countries no longer have a need for conscription, but it still exists in North and South Korea, Israel... and Ukraine (which even requires women to register), Lithuania, Belarus and of course in Russia. Eastern Europe is like a big pot that's about to boil over.
I suspect that all Russia really wants is what they've always wanted... a warm water port. Anything else is just macho posturing. They want Ukraine because they want the Crimea. They want the Crimea because they want Sevastapol. But give it a few more years of global warming, and they should have plenty of warm water ports.
They've had Crimea for 8 years, and everyone (except Ukraine) seems to have shrugged it off, so why draw attention to it now? Unless you're saying this latest escalation is intended to force the West to compromise and recognize the occupation.
I'm sure they want various things, but I think most of them are 'nice to haves', the port is the 'must have'.
If they don't want Ukraine to be part of NATO, then what's the answer? Russia takes Ukraine, and it becomes part of Russia, and then Russia borders Poland and Romania, so "we don't want Poland/Romania to be part of NATO" ... If this is the main concern, then the only solution for Russia is to take over all of mainland Europe. Estonia, Latvia etc have been in NATO for years, and it may have been a kick in the Baltics for Russia, but why would Ukraine be the concern?
Russia tends to achieve its political aims by other means. They weakened Europe by influencing the Brexit referendum so that the UK left the union. They can further control Europe almost literally at the flick of a switch on the gas pipeline. They weakened the US and its standing abroad by promoting the election of one of the most divisive presidents in history, who also had the benefit of being both a halfwit and an isolationist.
Tanks are often just populist strongman crap, or the means to test an opponent's (US/NATO) resolve.
Germany seems to be another hindrance to defending Ukraine. They are willing to be subjected to economic blackmail via the Nordstream 2 pipeline, and are preventing military equipment from being sent via Germany to Ukraine.
And I'm not suprised about their actions at all. They already blocked Estonia from sending weapons to Ukraine. Offcourse, later they will impose "strict sanctions" and they will be deeply concenerned, but as we saw so many times already, sanctions don't work.Russia is doing what it wants. It took Crimea, made Belarus its puppet state, shot down a Malaysian passenger jet and blamed it on the Ukrainians, refused to give back Polish government plane that crashed in Smolensk, forced the US to cancel a deal with Poland that was supposed to place missile defense systems along its eastern border. Russian agents poisoned Sergei Skripal and his daughter, poisoned and then arrested Alexei Navalny. Putin and Lavrov often threaten other countries and lie in public. Russian elections are known to be a joke and in one of them there was so many fraudulent votes for Putin that the sum of votes shown on TV was over 100%.
I'm fairly certain that if they invade Ukraine, the UN, NATO and the EU will issue formal letters to Putin, maybe even call him, then do some reconnaissance flights, drop some aid packages, accept refugees and that's going to be it.
Putin is certainly a dictator, even if Russia has "elections". I'm fairly certain that if they invade Ukraine, the UN, NATO and the EU will issue formal letters to Putin, maybe even call him, then do some reconnaissance flights, drop some aid packages, accept refugees and that's going to be it.
Putin has taken his aggressive steps while there has been weak US presidents. It is no accident that Russia took steps to undermine US Presidents that would be willing to stand up to Putin, and took steps to elect weak US presidents (such as Obama and Biden).
Russia is doing what it wants. It took Crimea, made Belarus its puppet state, shot down a Malaysian passenger jet and blamed it on the Ukrainians, refused to give back Polish government plane that crashed in Smolensk, forced the US to cancel a deal with Poland that was supposed to place missile defense systems along its eastern border. Russian agents poisoned Sergei Skripal and his daughter, poisoned and then arrested Alexei Navalny. Putin and Lavrov often threaten other countries and lie in public. Russian elections are known to be a joke and in one of them there was so many fraudulent votes for Putin that the sum of votes shown on TV was over 100%.
I'm fairly certain that if they invade Ukraine, the UN, NATO and the EU will issue formal letters to Putin, maybe even call him, then do some reconnaissance flights, drop some aid packages, accept refugees and that's going to be it.
I'm fairly certain that if they invade Ukraine, the UN, NATO and the EU will issue formal letters to Putin, maybe even call him, then do some reconnaissance flights, drop some aid packages, accept refugees and that's going to be it.
+1
I think the time to listen or negotiate with Russians is over. They lie and break any agreements before the ink dries.
It is time for action.
But NATO is like a small barking dog trying to get attention from a big hungry bear.
I have to agree with you. NATO will make some posturing moves, and not engage Russians. Russians will take over Ukraine in no time.
The West will complain, but it will do nothing. In 5-10 years, Russia will shift attention to former Warsaw pact countries, and NATO will withdraw from them (on the 'request' of 'democratically elected' pro-Russian governments) to avoid military conflict. Trump already wanted to reduce American involvement in NATO. So watch out if he is elected again. Russia will be running Europe and NATO will dissolve.
Unless someone in Brussels grows big cojones and puts the bear to sleep.
Russia is doing what it wants. It took Crimea, made Belarus its puppet state, shot down a Malaysian passenger jet and blamed it on the Ukrainians, refused to give back Polish government plane that crashed in Smolensk, forced the US to cancel a deal with Poland that was supposed to place missile defense systems along its eastern border. Russian agents poisoned Sergei Skripal and his daughter, poisoned and then arrested Alexei Navalny. Putin and Lavrov often threaten other countries and lie in public. Russian elections are known to be a joke and in one of them there was so many fraudulent votes for Putin that the sum of votes shown on TV was over 100%.
I'm fairly certain that if they invade Ukraine, the UN, NATO and the EU will issue formal letters to Putin, maybe even call him, then do some reconnaissance flights, drop some aid packages, accept refugees and that's going to be it.
I'm fairly certain that if they invade Ukraine, the UN, NATO and the EU will issue formal letters to Putin, maybe even call him, then do some reconnaissance flights, drop some aid packages, accept refugees and that's going to be it.
I suspect that all Russia really wants is what they've always wanted... a warm water port. Anything else is just macho posturing. They want Ukraine because they want the Crimea. They want the Crimea because they want Sevastapol. But give it a few more years of global warming, and they should have plenty of warm water ports.
They've had Crimea for 8 years, and everyone (except Ukraine) seems to have shrugged it off, so why draw attention to it now? Unless you're saying this latest escalation is intended to force the West to compromise and recognize the occupation.
I'm not very surprised that there is no thread about it. I got impression that in this board things happening outside US don't get much attention.
I don't know how likely is Russia invasion in Ukraine. I still want to believe that it won't happen. Invading whole Ukraine isn't same as invading pro-Russian regions like Crimea or Donbass. I doubt that they will reach Kyiv. It's more likely that they will try to take another part of eastern Ukraine, like Kharkiv where part of pro-Russian people isn't small.
I don't know how likely is Russia invasion in Ukraine. I still want to believe that it won't happen. Invading whole Ukraine isn't same as invading pro-Russian regions like Crimea or Donbass. I doubt that they will reach Kyiv. It's more likely that they will try to take another part of eastern Ukraine, like Kharkiv where part of pro-Russian people isn't small.
Germany seems to be another hindrance to defending Ukraine. They are willing to be subjected to economic blackmail via the Nordstream 2 pipeline, and are preventing military equipment from being sent via Germany to Ukraine.
And I'm not suprised about their actions at all. They already blocked Estonia from sending weapons to Ukraine. Offcourse, later they will impose "strict sanctions" and they will be deeply concenerned, but as we saw so many times already, sanctions don't work. Germany seems to be another hindrance to defending Ukraine. They are willing to be subjected to economic blackmail via the Nordstream 2 pipeline, and are preventing military equipment from being sent via Germany to Ukraine.
I suspect that all Russia really wants is what they've always wanted... a warm water port. Anything else is just macho posturing. They want Ukraine because they want the Crimea. They want the Crimea because they want Sevastapol. But give it a few more years of global warming, and they should have plenty of warm water ports.
I am surprised there haven't been any threads opened about this yet.
In recent months, Russia has massed hundreds of thousands of troops and other military equipment on the Russia-Ukraine border. It is well known that Russia wants Ukraine to be part of its county, however Russian dictator, President Putin, has claimed that the troop mass is part of a training exercise.
The US and NATO allies are sending military equipment to Ukraine to help repeal an attack, and there is some talk about possibly sending troops to the region.
In recent months, Russia has massed hundreds of thousands of troops and other military equipment on the Russia-Ukraine border. It is well known that Russia wants Ukraine to be part of its county, however Russian dictator, President Putin, has claimed that the troop mass is part of a training exercise.
The US and NATO allies are sending military equipment to Ukraine to help repeal an attack, and there is some talk about possibly sending troops to the region.
The world did not care when a short, bullied as a child, delusional painter wanted to restore his empire to its former glory.
The same thing is happening now, a short, bullied as a child, delusional, KGB agent wants to restore his empire to its former glory.
Nobody cares until it is too late and they are forced to care.
Americans are too detached from their own affairs, never mind, an international chess match.
My guess is he is going to come from Belarus and Crimea, and complete the attack with the movement from the East.
Americans will not fire a single shot. He will be in Kyiv in 3-4 weeks.
Next, he is going after Moldova, gets Odesa, and cuts Ukraine (or whatever is left from it) from the Black Sea.
NATO will sacrifice Ukraine, just like the British and the French sacrificed Poland 83 years ago.
Solution: Americans should be driving tanks towards the Russia/Ukraine border right now. Nato needs to deploy 100K soldiers into Eastern Ukraine at once. Make Ukraine a NATO member.
One problem: Putin has already installed a pro-Russian president, and that is why he will win this round.
I am surprised there haven't been any threads opened about this yet.
In recent months, Russia has massed hundreds of thousands of troops and other military equipment on the Russia-Ukraine border. It is well known that Russia wants Ukraine to be part of its county, however Russian dictator, President Putin, has claimed that the troop mass is part of a training exercise.
The US and NATO allies are sending military equipment to Ukraine to help repeal an attack, and there is some talk about possibly sending troops to the region.
Update 2/18/22:
It appears there may have been some kind of false flag operation in Dumbas, Ukraine, an area controlled by a separatist group, today, possibly involving an alleged bombing of the car belonging to the leader of the separatist group. It is possible this is part of some kind of false flag operation to create a pretext for an invasion.
President Biden today said he believes Putin has made the decision to invade and will start an invasion in the coming days.
Update 2/21/22:
It appears an invasion has begun
Update 2/23/22:
It appears there are some kind of bombings in Kiev, the capital of Ukraine
In recent months, Russia has massed hundreds of thousands of troops and other military equipment on the Russia-Ukraine border. It is well known that Russia wants Ukraine to be part of its county, however Russian dictator, President Putin, has claimed that the troop mass is part of a training exercise.
The US and NATO allies are sending military equipment to Ukraine to help repeal an attack, and there is some talk about possibly sending troops to the region.
Update 2/18/22:
It appears there may have been some kind of false flag operation in Dumbas, Ukraine, an area controlled by a separatist group, today, possibly involving an alleged bombing of the car belonging to the leader of the separatist group. It is possible this is part of some kind of false flag operation to create a pretext for an invasion.
President Biden today said he believes Putin has made the decision to invade and will start an invasion in the coming days.
Update 2/21/22:
It appears an invasion has begun
Update 2/23/22:
It appears there are some kind of bombings in Kiev, the capital of Ukraine
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