Topic: Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress] - page 56. (Read 73512 times)

Ahh so NATO can attack anyone in the world as long as they're in a conflict, without any UN security council approval, and that's what makes them a defense alliance    World police, judge, jury, and the executioner, which majority of the world didn't vote for? While totally ignoring other conflicts like actual war crimes in Gaza? Why those crazy Russian's wouldn't want that on their borders is a total mystery! When Cuba can't even receive advanced medical equipment without it being somehow considered an existential threat to US   we all believe that right?

It's actually quiet ironic that Ukrainian leaders decided to volunteer their population in order to attempt to push that ideology through, but of course once China showed which side it's on, everyone realized that it's destined to fail.

No they were not part of NATO, but. NATO stopped a war that was ongoing, not started an invasion and thanks for noting that there was an UN mandate involved. Unless you want to re-write history (again)?

I am not pretending anything,  I am just wondering if Ruzzia can keep loosing critical infrastructure, jets that cannot be replaced, oil refineries and other targets. Some of this are expensive, some others are simply the last ones as they cannot be produced again.

It is time for Ruzzia to figure out how the future looks if things become "half". Half the Black sea fleet underwater, half of the air defence systems destroyed, half of their refining capacity gone, half of the generals in prison, half of the positions in factories not covered, half of the business gone and half of the income from foreign assets confiscated.

But if you say that is ok, then it is ok. It takes a while for the frog to boil.

Haha were Croatia, Bosnia part of NATO when NATO decided to attack Yugoslavia, against all international laws and UN charter? Oops. In fact even NATO didn't attempt to justify this as self defense, their claim was that sure it's illegal for each individual country to attack another country, but NATO itself is not a member of UN so as an alliance and under the alliance flag, they're not bound by UN charter and can do whatever, keep trying to confuse uneducated.

Ahh i see, so you still pretending that Ukraine is better off than Russia now. Russia keeps taking more territory while Ukraine keeps loosing more and more of its population, but you continue to spin that as a positive, and rooting for it to go on for much longer? Good job comrade, who's side are you on again  

You mean NATO attacked Serbia? What was Serbia doing at that time? Was it not attacking Croatia, Bosnia,... Again, who is the aggressor and who is acting in defence? did NATO attack Serbia before they started a (genocidal) war with the ex-republics and started the ethnical cleanse of Albanians or after?

The point you are making about dragging the war, I have been making it since more than a year ago. It was not a good idea to start the war and the actor that is getting the worst of a prolonged war is Ruzzia (not the only one) because is using up resources that cannot be re-built.

It is time for Putin to consider a peace plan by returning the Ukrainian territory and paying reparations, returning the kidnapped children,...  Unless he does not want out.

But that will not happen. You need to keep boiling the frong until it is no longer a threat to anyone. US strategy will not change at least for a year.

Are there many defensive alliances that attack other countries first, like when NATO attacked Yugoslavia? I'm sure China loves such precedence and instructions on how to sell such crap to population.
Attack is Defense. War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength

You know pretty well that Ukraine cannot use the weapons as they see fit, just ask Biden. You also know the reason, that Ukraine is provided weapons not to win but just not loose too fast. For some, unknown to me, reason Ukrainian leadership was happy to accept that role for their citizens, and now people are living with those consequences. As you're well aware, if US really wanted Ukraine to win, there are million things that they could've tried to do differently. Instead Ukraine will maybe get only few F16s this year to slow down the losses and drag out the inevitable for a bit longer. Everyone has a role to play, and everyone knows which role leadership picked for Ukraine

I take your icons as a disagreement with my statement about NATO. Please @Branko, tell me annytime that the NATO alliance has invaded a country. Please read carefully: The NATO alliance, not individual members acting in their national capacity.

I think that the US simply wants Ruzzia to self-demilitarise. They could have provided Ukraine with  much more decisive aid and much earlier, but US wants to make sure Putin uses up the soviet legacy and cannot recover in more than a decade. There are many reasons for it, all advantageous to US.

Ukrainians want an independent country. There are many historic an practical reasons for this interest. It is also in Ukrainian interest to have a Ruzzia that is wary of trying another invasion and has more limited resources to re-try.

Both are collaborating in their mutual goals and seem to be getting at least a decent  result. The more Ruzzia self-demilitarises and self-destroys its economy, the safer is the future of Ukraine and Europe and the better placed is the US to face China.

I obviously get your point: Much better a full victory here and now, but the international scene does not lean towards that approach, agendas have points in common and other points that are not common.

Europe and US do not "cheer" anything. It is curious how @Brako can at the same time say that you should be using an "adult approach" that this is not "good and evil"... and then decide that this is about race or cultures or hate.

Like any other people in the world, European people wishes prosperity and most European countries have built the EU to get together and solve problems without wars. It only took two world wars and the destruction of half Europe to get there. How long will it take for Ruzzia to give a chance to peace? perhaps never?

Regardin evil... There is evil in the current Ruzzia. There is kidnapping of children, cultural anihilation, droning of civil vehicles, shelling of schools, hospital, looting... This is not "a kids vision" this is here and now.

 


I told that long ago.
You should look at this war as geopolitical game, not through child eyes as fight between good and evil

UK and USA cheer every dead Ukrainian as well as dead Russian...both are gain for them

WW2 was same

Noone is your friend in geopolitics...UK and USA will bomb you 20y from now if they can and its profitable,
same as they did to their friend and ally Saddam

When did Ukraine attack Ruzzia? I mean not in your imagination or your website or a vague claim, but when are you claiming that Ukraine attacked Ruzzia before Ruzzia invaded Crimea.

^^^ Will you ever realize that Putin's attack on Ukraine was simply his response to Ukraine's attacks on Russia and their own people starting at least in 2014? And Ukraine was doing it to expand Nato towards Russia, against what most Ukrainian people wanted. Don't you even realize that Ukraine was doing terrorist attacks into Russia back in 2014?

Correct, NATO is a defensive alliance. NATO is not attacking Ruzzia.

You are giving yourself the answer, NATO is not belligerent in this war and none of the countries that sell weapons to Ukraine are belligerent in the war. They can sell weapons to Ukraine and they could sell them to Ruzzia if they wanted to. Ukraine can use the weapons as they see fit.

 What surprises me is that anyone has to actually say that it is OK for Ukraine to attack Ruzzia, just as Ruzzia is attacking Ukraine. Is super-funny you somehow find that unfair   In my view, there is not even a need for anyone to "give permission" - Ukraine is at war with Ruzzia, all military targets are exactly that -targets. And if it is a multi-million radar critical for the Ruzzian strategic defence... well, just withdraw from Ukraine if you cannot handle this loses. I am sure it was much more fun from your side when the missiles were flying only from east to west, was it not? Karma is a bitch, uh?

 Just as I am sure than pacific countries such as Iran and China do not put any limits on what Ruzzia decides to use their weapons for - literally, no limits whatsoever.

So... Finland and Sweden are in NATO for the cookies? So none of this countries in your map are in talks are there because the are scared Ruzzia could invade them, just like it did with Ukraine? You are getting funnier by the minute.

The only point here is that Putin thinks he is somehow entitled to dictate in the old USSR, the neighbours know, and they like it not. Comme'on Putin has done more for NATO expansion than anyone else... NATO was nearly dead before the invasion.

Haha yes they just give out cookies, right? and we all totally believe that!

NATO Chief Backs Use of Western Weapons to Hit Russian Targets

Chief of a "not aggressive alliance" promotes its members sending weapons to a country, which is not part of the alliance, and then trying to encourage that third country to attack Russia with those NATO weapons. What could be more non aggressive than this? It's like he's Mother Teresa Russia and China should be totally happy with this. Wait, why is the doomsday clock turning again, must be a total mystery, above all of our heads. Those crazy Russians, why don't they like the new incarnation of Mother Teresa  

It all has to come from the country. The invitation to talks is only after a country expresses interest previously. You have never proven anything except that you confuse facts an opinion... curiously always favouring your narrative.

There has not been any NATO aggression to Ruzzia. If Ukraine has shown interest in joining NATO, they are invited to discuss how and when. It is very simple - NATO is not an aggressive alliance.

I have however to make an amendment, the Early Warning Radar destroyed by Ukrainian drones is not in Crimea, it is properly in Ruzzian territory. The radar, and I did not get that part, is the whole building.



If you see the series of attacks on different air defence installations, it would look like preparing a path for something.

You should probably tell NATO that NATO doesn't invite. Looks like you know something they don't


Russia stopped that plan, but Zelenskiy has no choice but to keep trying now

Zelenskiy says it's time for NATO to invite Ukraine into alliance. President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said on Thursday it was time for NATO to take the political decision to invite Ukraine to join the military alliance, and that Kyiv wanted to know when it would become a member.

So you're saying Zelenskiy doesn't know what he's talking about? It's quiet amazing how many times you're proven wrong so you just change the subject with some new statement which is proven wrong once again. I don't think i could do that even if i tried.

Somehow more and more leaders of various countries know that Ukraine is lost, and that more fighting only serves to kill and maim more people. So, why is it that the US and Nato want more people dead, especially Ukrainians?


Bulgarian President Radev: It is IMPOSSIBLE for Ukraine to beat Russia

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https://www.naturalnews.com/2024-05-24-bulgaria-president-ukraine-victory-over-russia-impossible.html
Bulgarian President Rumen Radev thinks it is impossible for Ukraine to beat Russia.

During a May 18 address, the Bulgarian leader expressed concern about the Russia-Ukraine war's broad repercussions. He indicated that the ongoing conflict, which began in February 2022, has a substantial impact on global politics and elections – including those in Europe and the United States.

"Every day that this war continues is disastrous for Ukraine, Russia and all of us," said Radev. "This inevitably affects all elections. We will choose in this and the next election between war and peace. Every citizen is obliged to understand this."

"It is unacceptable to present the continuation of the war and the impossible victory over Russia as the only possible solution," the Bulgarian president continued. He warned that if the chaos continues, Ukraine will become a "demographically devastated country, with completely destroyed infrastructure, industry [and] production." Such an outcome, Radev added, "will have extremely serious consequences not only for Ukraine but also for the whole of Europe."

"With weapons, without weapons – we are going to a similar outcome. We have to realize that. The difference will be thousands of human casualties and a devastated country – for which [its] recovery we will have to pay, [and] it is inevitable." (Related: Putin reportedly willing to end war with Ukraine, sit down for PEACE TALKS.)

According to Euractiv, Radev is a staunch opponent of sending military to Ukraine. However, Sofia exported large quantities of weapons to Kyiv through intermediaries during his caretaker government from 2021 until 2022. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky himself lauded Bulgaria, alongside the West, for helping Kyiv prevent the war from spilling over during his visit to Sofia in July 2023.

Radev also comments on the shooting of Slovak PM
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If West already decided to help Ukraine, they should give what is needed for Ukraine, not something what is enough just to defend and keep current positions. But no, West don't want escalation, they want to weaken Russia, but don't want their humiliating defeat. Time doesn't work  in favour of Ukraine, war is going for almost 2.5 years and every day of this war costs lives of Ukrainians.
When Ukraine started hitting Russian oil refineries and West were negative about it, their reaction says a lot for me.

Even if these numbers isn't accurate and might be far from reality, but when you think, it's crazy how many lives this war took. And for what they went to die? Just because one idiot decided for his own imaginary reasons...

Just take any random high number and present it in confident way like it would be fact and maybe someone will believe in it.

Yes there are 30 million in Ukraine, so go for 20 x times, you still got 20 million for your next post. And why say Ruzzia, when you could say that all of them are going to Iran? You know, you just have to say thing, no need for any proof... go big! Think big!


I do not say that Ukraine is going or is providing accurate figures. I am just saying that Ruzzia has spent lost of people for very little gain. Ukraine is simply defending.

These figures can be much higher because Russia is doing all in its power to lower the numbers. (not that Ukraine isn't trying to lower theirs). I've seen captured Russian soldiers admit that they're hiding losses from the command by borrowing soldiers between units. The way it works there's a unit of let's say 200 people. Commanders agree that one of them will borrow 50 people and send them to another town to do something, for instance clear a mine field. If they die the unit is still there on paper. They report that 25% was sent to another command and that's it. On paper they're still there in that other unit clearing mines. In reality they're dead. In fact there are dead divisions that still "fight" and hold the line somewhere, but there's only 10% of them still fighting.

Oh, quit talking so silly... 20 or 30. There aren't that many people in Ukraine to say nothing about that many troops. And especially now that most of the Ukrainians have migrated elsewhere... especially to Russia.

Why 6 or 7?... You need to lie much bigger... say 20 or 30. You do not justify anything... so why not?

Even if that figure is true - and maybe especially if that figure is true - then the estimate of 6 or 7 dead Ukrainians for every dead Russian holds some water, as well. Ukraine is simply lost. No two ways about it.

Even if Ukraine won the actual war, Russia wouldn't really lose. There isn't any Ukraine left, except for the name.