Samourai Wallet seized by the feds | Bitcointalksearch.org

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on August 21, 2024, 11:06:08 AM

This post will probably be ignored, but I noticed there's an address with over $1.7M in here dedicated to fund projects which aim to improve transaction privacy in Bitcoin. Currently, the only solutions for L1 privacy are Wasabi, Joinmarket and Joinstr, with the first one having a terrible reputation as a project, the second being expensive and difficult to use properly, and the third being relatively untested (i.e., having no Sybil resistance).

In my opinion, Samourai was the best alternative, and its development was very active just a few weeks before it was shut down. It's truly disheartening to see Bitcoin turning into a surveillance coin due to the lack of adequate solutions. I noticed that Wasabi and Joinmarket were funded with 10 BTC each, so I'm reaching out to @gmaxwell, @theymos, and @Pieter Wuille, asking them to help with Keonne Rodriguez and William Lonergan Hill, the two founders of Samourai Wallet, in legal expenses in court: https://p2prights.org/donate.html. Any amounts donated would be appreciated.

You have this completely backwards - Samourai's project has the terrible reputation, not Wasabi:

Quote from: gmaxwell on May 19, 2019, 02:49:31 PM

Repeated dishonesty from Samourai have barred them from ever receiving a payout from the bounty as far as I am concerned: I will not be signing a transaction paying them. Evaluating the privacy of systems is difficult even when the involved parties are honest and easy to work with, it is far too difficult when they are actively misleading. Personally, I would urge my friends to not use that wallet.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

This post will probably be ignored, but I noticed there's an address with over $1.7M in here dedicated to fund projects which aim to improve transaction privacy in Bitcoin. Currently, the only solutions for L1 privacy are Wasabi, Joinmarket and Joinstr, with the first one having a terrible reputation as a project, the second being expensive and difficult to use properly, and the third being relatively untested (i.e., having no Sybil resistance).

In my opinion, Samourai was the best alternative, and its development was very active just a few weeks before it was shut down. It's truly disheartening to see Bitcoin turning into a surveillance coin due to the lack of adequate solutions. I noticed that Wasabi and Joinmarket were funded with 10 BTC each, so I'm reaching out to @gmaxwell, @theymos, and @Pieter Wuille, asking them to help with Keonne Rodriguez and William Lonergan Hill, the two founders of Samourai Wallet, in legal expenses in court: https://p2prights.org/donate.html. Any amounts donated would be appreciated.

Quote from: https://p2prights.org/projects.html

Keonne Rodriguez and William Lonergan Hill, founders of Samourai Wallet, face charges of conspiracy to commit money laundering and operating an unlicensed money services business. The prosecution's attempt to classify Samurai's non-custodial coinjoin tool as a money service business risks setting a damaging precedent that could impact the entire Bitcoin ecosystem.

By supporting this case, we can ensure that the court adequately understands the technology and legal principles at stake in this case, and seek a favorable result establishing that non-custodial privacy tools cannot be regulated under the Bank Secrecy Act. The outcome of this case will significantly impact the future of non-custodial Bitcoin tools and the broader decentralized finance landscape.

joker_josue

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**In BTC since 2013**

Quote from: RickDeckard on May 10, 2024, 02:27:41 PM

The article then goes to explain what Whirlpool means the rest of evidences already described before[2]. Goes to show that William was already being followed long before his arrival on Portugal.

This proves that when we hear about this type of arrest or closure of service, it is not something the police remember to do that morning. It involves months or years of investigation. And for the police to waste so much time in this investigation, it is not because they are simply against a certain business, but because there is clear evidence that it is being used for illegal purposes.

They are not after the users here on the forum, who used this or other equivalent services, but rather the mentors of these services who were premissive regarding the illegalities that they knew were being committed.

RickDeckard

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Recently a Portuguese newspaper ran an article detailing (partly) how was the case handled by the Portuguese authorities[1]. I'll post here a few highlights/resume for those interested in learning how it was conducted:

William Hill - one of the two founders arrested - was living already in Portugal (Lisbon) close to a year when the detention was made on 24th of April;
Ever since he landed on Portuguese soil - arriving from France - the authorities started watching him 24 hours, per request of the FBI;
The surveillance of William extended during multiple months so that the Portuguese Criminal Investigation Police (PJ) made sure he wasn't attempting to flee from the country. This surveillance also included inspectors on the field;

The article then goes to explain what Whirlpool means the rest of evidences already described before[2]. Goes to show that William was already being followed long before his arrival on Portugal.

[1]https://observador.pt/especiais/barao-das-criptomoedas-william-hill-geria-no-centro-de-lisboa-uma-app-que-permitia-a-oligarcas-russos-escaparem-a-sancoes-do-ocidente/
[2]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63989229

MeGold666

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 07, 2024, 09:26:56 AM

How many millions did your friend of a friend sell / buy?

More than 1.

peter0425

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 07, 2024, 09:26:56 AM

Why are we going to presume that the mere fact that something is secret that it all of a sudden is being used mostly by criminals rather than for legitimate personal privacy reasons? We would likely need more data if we are going to start to make those kinds of presumptions, and surely I understand some of the ideas of the slippery slope that also would include increase in trade volume that allows larger and larger players to come into the product.. so surely there are ongoingly going to be some challenges when the non-traceable services increase in their capacities.

I don’t think there has been a study regarding how much of privacy coins are actually being used in nefarious purposes probably because there is no accurate count of criminals that can be used for the research. So maybe all the idea that criminals are using privacy coins as some kind of fort came from mere idea that criminals have to be discreet.

The government does not trust anything they have no information on hence why they are suspicious of privacy coins.

JayJuanGee

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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"

Quote from: MusaMohamed on May 06, 2024, 11:58:38 PM

Quote from: DaveF on May 06, 2024, 11:57:42 AM

Drifting a bit OT, but I don't think XMR has that low a liquidity. It's still trading $50 million a day. And it then follows that the more people use it the more that number will grow but people have to want to use it.
And I don't think a lot of people care about privacy as much as we think.

No cryptocurrency can replace Bitcoin in trading volume in a long time. They can have very high trading volume that is higher than Bitcoin trading volume in one or some days but can not maintain it for too long time and never can take over Bitcoin in market cap or trading volume.

Monero with about $1.3B in trading volume last 30 days or as you said, $50M a day is good for trading and can satisfy criminals for money laundering. I could be wrong but criminals will not launder money with very big value within a day like more $B a day and Monero is good for their privacy and private transactions.

Why are we going to presume that the mere fact that something is secret that it all of a sudden is being used mostly by criminals rather than for legitimate personal privacy reasons? We would likely need more data if we are going to start to make those kinds of presumptions, and surely I understand some of the ideas of the slippery slope that also would include increase in trade volume that allows larger and larger players to come into the product.. so surely there are ongoingly going to be some challenges when the non-traceable services increase in their capacities.

Quote from: MeGold666 on May 07, 2024, 08:59:46 AM

Liquidity problem is a myth, otherwise Bitcoin would never be worth more than $1 per coin.

The more people want to buy it, the higher the price will go - that's a "problem" that is self-resolving.

"A friend of a friend" had no problem selling and buying XMR in very large quantities, it took minutes.

How many millions did your friend of a friend sell / buy?

MeGold666

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Liquidity problem is a myth, otherwise Bitcoin would never be worth more than $1 per coin.

The more people want to buy it, the higher the price will go - that's a "problem" that is self-resolving.

"A friend of a friend" had no problem selling and buying XMR in very large quantities, it took minutes.

mindrust

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Quote from: DaveF on May 06, 2024, 11:57:42 AM

Quote from: mindrust on May 06, 2024, 05:06:41 AM

Obviously everybody is free to use whatever suits them the best. In fact Ltc makes more sense than the other two for coffee transactions since it is fast, cheap and is as widely adopted as btc.

I sorted them based on their privacy abilities. Monero is the most hardcore privacy oriented coin so people who demand the hardest privacy will use nothing but monero because it makes more sense. The biggest handicap of xmr is that it has low liquidity and that’s not a small problem. Especially when you want to cash out over a million usd. Wink

People who demand the best privacy still prefer to use btc over monero because of that probably.

It doesn’t have to be this or that in the end. There is a place for many alts in this market.

Drifting a bit OT, but I don't think XMR has that low a liquidity. It's still trading $50 million a day. And it then follows that the more people use it the more that number will grow but people have to want to use it.

That's the total trading volume on all exchanges and trading pairs which is also mostly fake.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/

The pair with the most volume is on Gate.io and it is probably fake. Azbit fake. Poloniex fake, bithash fake. All fakes till Kraken. Another fake exchange bit2me and then Kucoin comes with a volume of $2.8m. Mexc has $2m daily volume. Finex has another $2m.

I'd say Monero has no more than $10m genuine daily trading volume at the moment. A person with $1m can mess these pairs up quite easily.

MusaMohamed

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Quote from: DaveF on May 06, 2024, 11:57:42 AM

Drifting a bit OT, but I don't think XMR has that low a liquidity. It's still trading $50 million a day. And it then follows that the more people use it the more that number will grow but people have to want to use it.
And I don't think a lot of people care about privacy as much as we think.

No cryptocurrency can replace Bitcoin in trading volume in a long time. They can have very high trading volume that is higher than Bitcoin trading volume in one or some days but can not maintain it for too long time and never can take over Bitcoin in market cap or trading volume.

Monero with about $1.3B in trading volume last 30 days or as you said, $50M a day is good for trading and can satisfy criminals for money laundering. I could be wrong but criminals will not launder money with very big value within a day like more $B a day and Monero is good for their privacy and private transactions.

DaveF

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Quote from: mindrust on May 06, 2024, 05:06:41 AM

Obviously everybody is free to use whatever suits them the best. In fact Ltc makes more sense than the other two for coffee transactions since it is fast, cheap and is as widely adopted as btc.

I sorted them based on their privacy abilities. Monero is the most hardcore privacy oriented coin so people who demand the hardest privacy will use nothing but monero because it makes more sense. The biggest handicap of xmr is that it has low liquidity and that’s not a small problem. Especially when you want to cash out over a million usd. Wink

People who demand the best privacy still prefer to use btc over monero because of that probably.

It doesn’t have to be this or that in the end. There is a place for many alts in this market.

Drifting a bit OT, but I don't think XMR has that low a liquidity. It's still trading $50 million a day. And it then follows that the more people use it the more that number will grow but people have to want to use it.
And I don't think a lot of people care about privacy as much as we think.

Most people want to pick out the stuff they want, pay for it and move on. Zero thought about privacy or what data tracking info is being sold.
Which is why when Samourai gets seized, mixers get seized and so on the general thought of most people is 'meh...whatever' even people in crypto. It's just not something they care about.

Which is also why XMR and a lot of privacy coins don't get a lot of traction,

Just my view.

-Dave

mindrust

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 06, 2024, 03:49:11 AM

But that's unfair to make such classifications, no? What if a normal user likes Monero or Litecoin for coffee transactions because they're faster? Or because he/she simply likes the logos of those coins?

"For everyone else", I believe Bitcoin could also be used for the utility of those other cryptocurrencies if you know what you're doing.

Obviously everybody is free to use whatever suits them the best. In fact Ltc makes more sense than the other two for coffee transactions since it is fast, cheap and is as widely adopted as btc.

I sorted them based on their privacy abilities. Monero is the most hardcore privacy oriented coin so people who demand the hardest privacy will use nothing but monero because it makes more sense. The biggest handicap of xmr is that it has low liquidity and that’s not a small problem. Especially when you want to cash out over a million usd. Wink

People who demand the best privacy still prefer to use btc over monero because of that probably.

It doesn’t have to be this or that in the end. There is a place for many alts in this market.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: mindrust on April 26, 2024, 01:16:39 PM

So it goes like this:

Dark market quality, best of the best, the hardest privacy, the choice of the drugsellers, money launderers and terrorists: Monero

>

Porn addicts, weirdos, pot buyers: Litecoin MW

>

Everyone else: btc

I’m am OK with MW :d

But that's unfair to make such classifications, no? What if a normal user likes Monero or Litecoin for coffee transactions because they're faster? Or because he/she simply likes the logos of those coins?

"For everyone else", I believe Bitcoin could also be used for the utility of those other cryptocurrencies if you know what you're doing.

cryptosize

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Quote from: mindrust on April 25, 2024, 03:10:25 AM

Does it still sound like a conspiracy theory?

Privacy will be gone completely in a few years. We will be sharing our cars and homes with strangers. I already share my country with millions of illegals thanks to the US politics in the Middle East. Make a google search and see which country hosts the most refugees(!).

The US has been taking thousands from the Mexican border.

These things happen because of the evil globalist fucks like Klaus Schwab.

Only gullible people believe this is a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. Most likely triple jabbed ones.

They want to bring Techno-Communism:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/06/could-capitalism-need-some-marxism-to-survive-the-4th-industrial-revolution/
https://twitter.com/mattgubba/status/1560529318857609217

It's a prerequisite to bring UBI + CBDC.

Quote from: NotATether on April 25, 2024, 03:29:40 AM

Quote from: mindrust on April 25, 2024, 03:10:25 AM

[ img width=700]https://talkimg.com/images/2024/04/25/raZA1.jpeg[/img]

Does it still sound like a conspiracy theory?

Privacy will be gone completely in a few years. We will be sharing our cars and homes with strangers. I already share my country with millions of illegals thanks to the US politics in the Middle East. Make a google search and see which country hosts the most refugees(!).

The US has been taking thousands from the Mexican border.

These things happen because of the evil globalist fucks like Klaus Schwab.

Well as someone with a family full of conspiracy theorists who somehow came to the conclusion that covid was created by WEF, this is actually a very real and serious threat to Bitcoin, what they are doing right now. And I'm sure that there are some WEF-affiliated people in governments, the IMF, World Bank and others and also rich people who attend Davos meetings who give donations to said people.

I'm sure you remember when they tried to outlaw strong encryption and then people were printing the PGP source code on t-shirts, mugs and so on.

We need to channel that resistance because ultimately, code is free speech protected by the first amendment. You can't be held criminally liable just for writing it.

Maybe your family is onto something:

https://twitter.com/EssexPR/status/1544273335881801728

They didn't create COVID (a variant of flu) per se, but they did orchestrate the COVID hysteria (mass media fearmongering, social media censoring of dissenting voices, lockdowns that destroyed our economy by increasing inflation, forced experimental vaccinations etc).

I was very sad to see Bitcoiners support all this anti-freedom measures back in 2020-2021, but I'll let it slide for a second.

And now they're attacking people's privacy...

These guys control almost all governments (not just the West, but even Russia/BRICs is a controlled opposition), they're not our friends.

The road to hell is always paved with good ("humanitarian") intentions. Wink

cryptosize

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Quote from: Z390 on April 25, 2024, 01:01:38 AM

Privacy is a fight that we can never win.

Unless you are a selfish person, even if this privacy thing is good for your daily use, have you ever thought about putting yourself in a shoe of a ruler? Will you want such to exist in your country without worries about someone funding terrorists and they are untraceable? You won't be able to sleep peacefully.

We can't say because privacy is good for us that everyone in the world will use it right, samourai wallet is a dangerous piece of technology if it gets into the wrong hands, so I like the fact that they made it stop, o my God knows how many bad people have use its features for their own reasons.

In a world where no one is completely clean it will be a disaster to have a way to move funds untraceable, even this day's people do bad things and they feel like it's good, a world without law is called lawless, and that's more like a hell on earth.

Spoken like a true freemason. Wink

Even knowledge/books can become "dangerous" into the "wrong" hands. Shocked

Sure, if I were a ruler, I wouldn't want want the plebs to escape the 9-5 rat race, but the thing is I'm not. Roll Eyes

Kruw

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Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on April 29, 2024, 02:33:30 PM

That's why you should always verify the signatures of your software! The feds have not compromised the private key(s) used to sign software releases.

Samourai used their PGP signed warrant canary to announce that they started complying with information requests from the feds nearly a year ago:

https://twitter.com/FuegoDelMonte/status/1664723858274807811
https://twitter.com/SamouraiWallet/status/1664738065632436224

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

Quote from: logfiles on April 27, 2024, 11:58:08 AM

If only there was a world where Governments are illegal.

The problem with making governments illegal is that you need a government to do it. Sounds like trying to convince a person to kill themselves. Tongue

Even free market advocates do not believe in a world with absolutely no government. Less intervention in the market is already a milestone, which we are far away from. Writing code has been proved to be particularly effective manner to resist, but it needs more than that.

Quote from: Saint-loup on April 27, 2024, 02:46:51 PM

Yes but it's a software, so if you download a malicious update made by someone who eventually took control of the project now leaders of the team have been arrested, it could create a transaction and send your funds elsewhere or steal your seed.

That's why you should always verify the signatures of your software! The feds have not compromised the private key(s) used to sign software releases.

Saint-loup

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Quote from: NotATether on April 27, 2024, 12:34:44 PM

Nothing. Samourai is a non-custodial wallet.

Yes but it's a software, so if you download a malicious update made by someone who eventually took control of the project now leaders of the team have been arrested, it could create a transaction and send your funds elsewhere or steal your seed. So IMO it's better to import your seed or private keys into another wallet as soon as possible, and to not download any upgrade before.

NotATether

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Quote from: anna_20 on April 27, 2024, 06:51:09 AM

what happens now to the money kept in those wallets? Huh

Nothing. Samourai is a non-custodial wallet.

logfiles

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on April 25, 2024, 10:24:34 AM

There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq prior to the US invading that country and taking down Saddam, right? Right, guys??

Governments are the biggest liars, the biggest thieves (with banks in second place), and unfortunately since they make the laws and enforce them and instill fear in their citizens' hearts, they get to do whatever the fuck they want to.

Absolutely right! Everything about Government makes me want to puke. From their policies, propaganda and enforcement. If only there was a world where Governments are illegal. Maybe that would be a much better world for freedom

Governments are basically a cartel living off people's hard-earned money through tax and still use the same revenue to threaten, imprison and kill their own Citizens.

Quote from: DeathAngel on April 27, 2024, 06:19:38 AM

They hate everything they don’t control & it might get worse eventually. Don’t let this kind of thing scare you away from self custody though, they can’t take Bitcoin off you if they aren’t able to tell where it is. I hear there are a lot of unfortunate boating accidents happening lately.

Next they will be coming for and seizing servers of any noncustodial wallet because they are not KYCing their users Grin

Topic: Samourai Wallet seized by the feds (Read 2019 times)