You are claiming that MW isn't working but you can't show me an example which means you are lying and misinforming people. You call that education?
Why don't you provide everyone the unaggregated data from your own MW node then as an example?
Topic: Samourai Wallet seized by the feds - page 3. (Read 1993 times)
Why don't you provide everyone the unaggregated data from your own MW node then as an example?
How about you deanonymize a MW transaction? Let's see your skills in action.
Not sure that's a fair comparison since I would have to sync a node in order to even attempt this. There's no prerequisites to my challenge at all, these accusers against Wasabi are simply scammers, you can see here how I organized a ton of evidence against them proving how persistent they were targeting Wasabi users into getting scammed by Chipmixer: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-farewell-5482198
So you are saying you can't deanonymize a MW tx? Chickened out? Do you at least know someone who can? No? Show me an example who did? No? Why are you talking about it then?
So you are saying you can't deanonymize a MW tx? Chickened out? Do you at least know someone who can? No? Show me an example who did? No? Why are you talking about it then?
Because privacy education is important and people having a false sense of privacy is bad?
You are claiming that MW isn't working but you can't show me an example which means you are lying and misinforming people. You call that education?
So you are saying you can't deanonymize a MW tx? Chickened out? Do you at least know someone who can? No? Show me an example who did? No? Why are you talking about it then?
Because privacy education is important and people having a false sense of privacy is bad?
How about you deanonymize a MW transaction? Let's see your skills in action.
Not sure that's a fair comparison since I would have to sync a node in order to even attempt this. There's no prerequisites to my challenge at all, these accusers against Wasabi are simply scammers, you can see here how I organized a ton of evidence against them proving how persistent they were targeting Wasabi users into getting scammed by Chipmixer: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-farewell-5482198
So you are saying you can't deanonymize a MW tx? Chickened out? Do you at least know someone who can? No? Show me an example who did? No? Why are you talking about it then?
How about you deanonymize a MW transaction? Let's see your skills in action.
Not sure that's a fair comparison since I would have to sync a node in order to even attempt this. There's no prerequisites to my challenge at all, these accusers against Wasabi are simply scammers, you can see here how I organized a ton of evidence against them proving how persistent they were targeting Wasabi users into getting scammed by Chipmixer: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-farewell-5482198
h/t Shinobi: https://twitter.com/brian_trollz/status/1780220196994617725
Quote from: Shinobi
People gave up on MimbleWimble because the privacy in practice doesn't work. The whole selling point was that transactions, which are just point multiplication, can be added together to obscure the graph.
The problem is, nodes snooping on the network are the ones who would aggregate them, and they can snoop on the individual transactions propagating before aggregation and undermine the privacy.
The problem is, nodes snooping on the network are the ones who would aggregate them, and they can snoop on the individual transactions propagating before aggregation and undermine the privacy.
If you aren't lying, then prove it by tracing this Wasabi coinjoin: https://mempool.space/tx/bffa359a9d7908be069800e6bf471db1050496fc4fac40298b15c0d126202298
How about you deanonymize a MW transaction? Let's see your skills in action.
Edward Snowden said something interesting few days ago that money must be private by default, and that should not be illegal anywhere.
Money is private... If it is not private, it is not money. It is not a matter of should, that's the definition of money. It is because money is a commodity and all commodities are fungible/anonymous by nature.
Edward Snowden said something interesting few days ago that money must be private by default, and that should not be illegal anywhere.
And I absolutely agree with him. If we want privacy to be an integral part of our transactions, it needs to be available by default, across all wallet software; not optionally, expensively and even questionably effectively. All of the Bitcoin users who claim ourselves as pro-privacy and inspired by the cypherpunks, should opt-out to Monero, otherwise we're being dishonest to ourselves. There's a neighbour network that operates exactly as envisioned, respecting all the fundamentals of cryptocurrency.The only obstacle I see is our greed / risk / call it whatever you like, that Bitcoin will appreciate more in value than Monero.
To create the kind of economy we want to create, there can be no perceivable connection to their economy. For now, that is the only way to remain private.
But, what kind of economy do we want to create? One that's underground, or one that will reshape the current system as a result of its own collapse? We cannot realistically move forwards in terms of privacy if the merchants are afraid of being punished by the state for using privacy-respecting software. 
Was Samourai wallet a "privacy enhancing tool" or was it a money laundering tool? Or maybe it was both? 
It's unquestionably both. A motorised vehicle can be used for both legitimate purposes and illegal ones. A knife can be used for both legitimate purposes and illegal ones. It's all about how people choose to utilise the thing in question.
It's funny how some people start whining about "the government taking away our privacy" every time some crypto mixing service gets banned/shut down for doing illegal stuff. I guess that some people think that the ability to conduct money laundering schemes and other illegal activities online is an integral part of their online privacy. Just get a Monero wallet and start using Monero. Why do we have to care about coinjoin/mixing services?
But Monero can also be used for illegal purposes along with legitimate ones. You could absolutely launder money using Monero if you chose to. The only difference between Monero and coinjoin/mixing services is that Monero is far more resilient against regulatory takedown.
It's not that people think illegal activity should be an integral part of their privacy, they merely want privacy any way they can get it. But governments are indiscriminately destroying both legitimate and illegal use alike. So legitimate users are getting caught in the crosshairs and taking collateral damage when they've done nothing wrong.
I suggest, going forward, the solution to this problem is to stop forming crypto companies.
- Have an independent dev team, not a company with a CEO who can be arrested and company assets which can be seized
- Have a fully peer-to-peer architecture with no single-points-of-failure, not a main server which can be deactivated to cripple the service
- Have unpaid contributors, not paid employees
The moment you have a trading name, a head office, any reportable income, a primary company server or any kind of business expenditure, you become subject to all the regulations of the jurisdiction(s) in which you operate. You can and likely will be shut down if the government don't like the service you are offering.
To create the kind of economy we want to create, there can be no perceivable connection to their economy. For now, that is the only way to remain private.
Litecoin has a built-in privacy tool too. It is optional to use but it is there if you need it. That way litecoin has the best of the both worlds. It is not going to targeted by the government and businesses (they may not accept ltc that use mimble-wimble though) and it is not always semi-anonymous like bitcoin. You have a choice.
I wouldn't say it was not targeted by businesses because several exchanges delisted litecoin after they introduced mweb upgrade, even if they didn't have to add support for mweb addresses.It's interesting that mimble-wimble could easily get implemented in Bitcoin (there is proposal already) after years of working fine in litecoin, but I am almost sure Saylor and his followers won't support that.
You can have privacy on-chain, it's just becoming more and more difficult. Joinmarket, for example, is decentralized coinjoin. But, I doubt it's getting the necessary recognition, and it's pretty expensive to be honest.
Edward Snowden said something interesting few days ago that money must be private by default, and that should not be illegal anywhere.Prove it then. Tell me which inputs created which outputs in this Bitcoin transaction
At this point, you're making me quote him. Hey guys! Don't look at those cars of ours on the news which are on fire! Look at these 1,000 new ones we just made. Ohhh, shiny! 
o_e_l_e_o was never able to trace ANY WabiSabi coinjoins. He was proven to be a liar the entire time:
you don't need to be a "whale" at all in order to receive absolutely zero privacy from a Wasabi coinjoin.
Okay then, I'll call your bluff again- Here's 20 non whale non matching outputs from WabiSabi coinjoins, try to identify the inputs owned by even a single one of the 20 outputs (which would be 5%):
01 bc1q032caguldmlrrztmrwhv5wqveyywdu2rtmd740
02 bc1q6vgwhsfkg343mmh27vc6prg3clsd4xu3p68vyd
03 bc1qre8jjpu8p9taw8j44r39z56vfr4sw64d4wyaj4
04 bc1qarharg76gfcrvskfw46f67vtqzd6hxa9pnspp5
05 bc1q4sexgt2p96x3ytnjjttp59w6mkj00kedal3xze
06 bc1qwrf50wpjws5mhdg2rhdu5hy7nqdtl8z94lp75n
07 bc1qz0tal2udfpr20x793fdw6v8lzp2qze7z5zje64
08 bc1qqw2h7fa3n8vyxgqru664fmft2trl9sqh9kz3fp
09 bc1qsud748whmum4gpt2qu52z8gqlgzcjyvhd5w2a5
10 bc1qctvxddyvxupjj8w82m8w5grzn59arstlrnaauw
11 bc1qq2fl05cmmhkr3pzg8elyr859v2fpcltynrk2j5
12 bc1qvwkrd3aecrvql5j8mqkmketvw6g6qwzt4juprq
13 bc1qhc2565fac4lrgyfq6n0mzc0l86jeptfnv2um9x
14 bc1qat6445gutyl3qdz3zhmdng9cdt92mevjlvaljs
15 bc1qk5f3mz0fetccey4nyyjedlrmqstkz2hmun96ha
16 bc1q4tpvm378a9d4n0xcnjtwfwujtr8eatjzvru8dx
17 bc1qd5epyjpj6vuejdppj24wew5n4n5rzepjx2xnay
18 bc1qgafud63me5mffn00g90ch08jjn5h20umzwxd62
19 bc1q5u3f2ldrtqa7ea79a8hcd8kssgw2gmalk4uej9
20 bc1qa6n7g7r4j3nv78gzgzmuvg56em4guppckqpz7r
And just like o_e_l_e_o, you and NotATether haven't been able to trace anything either and were also proven to be liars. Stop making false accusations since you can't back them up.
You are lying.
You can have privacy on-chain, it's just becoming more and more difficult. Joinmarket, for example, is decentralized coinjoin. But, I doubt it's getting the necessary recognition, and it's pretty expensive to be honest. Those accusations are disingenuous and have been debunked numerous times already.
OK, man. Stick with whatever acquits Wasabi, lol. If you can't see the red flags from the numerous accusations of users and even developers declaring Wasabi as risky for your privacy, the childish behavior presented by Wasabi developers and the fact that they're funding the enemy, then I don't know what to say. Nothing smells fishy, stick with this notion. Prove it then. Tell me which inputs created which outputs in this Bitcoin transaction
At this point, you're making me quote him. Hey guys! Don't look at those cars of ours on the news which are on fire! Look at these 1,000 new ones we just made. Ohhh, shiny!
Why should I have to do it?
You have to do it because you called me a liar:
You are lying. I run a mixer directory and even I admit that crypto transactions cannot be made anonymous as long as you can draw a transaction graph of an address. [I.e. everything except for CryptoNote coins]
You are lying. I run a mixer directory and even I admit that crypto transactions cannot be made anonymous as long as you can draw a transaction graph of an address. [I.e. everything except for CryptoNote coins]
Prove it then. Tell me which inputs created which outputs in this Bitcoin transaction:
If you aren't lying, then prove it by tracing this Wasabi coinjoin: https://mempool.space/tx/bffa359a9d7908be069800e6bf471db1050496fc4fac40298b15c0d126202298
Why should I have to do it? I don't have server farms or sophisticated monitoring programs. You can challenge some people who do, though. Here, I will leave you their addresses:
[email protected]
https://www.elliptic.co/schedule-demo
You are lying. I run a mixer directory and even I admit that crypto transactions cannot be made anonymous as long as you can draw a transaction graph of an address. [I.e. everything except for CryptoNote coins]
Prove it then. Tell me which inputs created which outputs in this Bitcoin transaction:
If you aren't lying, then prove it by tracing this Wasabi coinjoin: https://mempool.space/tx/bffa359a9d7908be069800e6bf471db1050496fc4fac40298b15c0d126202298
Come back to us after you've disassociated yourself from Wasabi Wallet and then you can tell us "I told you so".
Lmao, what? This is a basic truth that anyone who knows anything about Bitcoin privacy has been warning about since Samourai began spying on their users' xpubs. There's vindication across the board:
If you were using Sparrow or running your own dojo instead of the main Samourai coordinator, then no xpub was sent in the first place. Also what does this have to do with my previous comment.
Could you explain to us why you claim Monero is shitcoin? After all, Monero is one of few altcoins which usually not associated with such term.
You don't need Monero because you can transact privately on Bitcoin.
You are lying. I run a mixer directory and even I admit that crypto transactions cannot be made anonymous as long as you can draw a transaction graph of an address. [I.e. everything except for CryptoNote coins]
h/t Shinobi: https://twitter.com/brian_trollz/status/1780220196994617725
Quote from: Shinobi
People gave up on MimbleWimble because the privacy in practice doesn't work. The whole selling point was that transactions, which are just point multiplication, can be added together to obscure the graph.
The problem is, nodes snooping on the network are the ones who would aggregate them, and they can snoop on the individual transactions propagating before aggregation and undermine the privacy.
The problem is, nodes snooping on the network are the ones who would aggregate them, and they can snoop on the individual transactions propagating before aggregation and undermine the privacy.
This is only correct theoretically, in practice Shinobi is wrong about this because almost all LTC nodes are running Litecoin Core which does not do such telemetry.
Quote
The data posted to blocks in the MimbleWimble blockchain doesn’t reveal any information on both the sender and receiver’s identification and transaction amounts. In fact, for an observer the information contained within a block looks like randomized data.
https://www.blockchainbeach.com/going-deep-on-privacy-mimblewimble-part-2/How so?
h/t Shinobi: https://twitter.com/brian_trollz/status/1780220196994617725
Quote from: Shinobi
People gave up on MimbleWimble because the privacy in practice doesn't work. The whole selling point was that transactions, which are just point multiplication, can be added together to obscure the graph.
The problem is, nodes snooping on the network are the ones who would aggregate them, and they can snoop on the individual transactions propagating before aggregation and undermine the privacy.
The problem is, nodes snooping on the network are the ones who would aggregate them, and they can snoop on the individual transactions propagating before aggregation and undermine the privacy.
Mimblewimble doesn't provide privacy against an active observer since they can see all the transactions at the time they are created.
Quote
The data posted to blocks in the MimbleWimble blockchain doesn’t reveal any information on both the sender and receiver’s identification and transaction amounts. In fact, for an observer the information contained within a block looks like randomized data.
https://www.blockchainbeach.com/going-deep-on-privacy-mimblewimble-part-2/How so?
So, don't be surprised! More is on the way!
Exactly! as sure as we are all going to die > more is on the way! Very sad though
I am not surprised that this happened. Yeah, they are fighting privacy but at the same time we can't deny that some people really abuse the privacy to do illegal things and hide their activity. We all know that government did it because they want to have power in their hand, they don't want to give people a financial freedom because those who control the money, control everything, so having a control on finance is the most important thing for governments. Since it's also true that people abuse privacy for doing illegal things and hiding traces, it gives governments a right and support from majority of people to do whatever it takes to close the every door for privacy and the majority of people are willingly letting them do it because they believe that government cares about them and it should be done to stop some people from doing illegal things and hiding traces.
So, don't be surprised! More is on the way!
So, don't be surprised! More is on the way!
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