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Topic: Satoshi Nakamoto - 1,5 million Bitcoins - We need answers - page 6. (Read 52462 times)

hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
Yet we haven't witnessed an intense development effort for such novel systems before or since Bitcoin. There were many different plans for a distributed currency (e.g. a distributed anonymous version of ripple), but only by a handful of people. In my experience, you just can't and don't work on such stuff if you intend to get rich. He must have imagined gaining wealth as a consequence of his success, but the reason the structure is built this way is definitely about success of the currency. As a consequence, people who believed in it got to have more coins. Even so, there are many early adopters who (at least claim to) have very little coins left.

To me, this is a a weak argument.  Obviously, we haven't witnessed  an "intense development effort for such novel systems" since Bitcoin because that would be a period of what...2 years?  And, the Internet has only been around for a couple decades before Bitcoin.  The age of digital global information exchange is still in its infancy.  And, I would argue there have been novel attempts on a smaller systemic scale.  Linden dollars, for one.  Did Linden dollars make the 2nd life owners wealthy?   You betcha.  Now you got Facebook Credits.  Perhaps you could even go before digital communication and look at things like Baseball Cards, the popularity of which exploded in the late 1980s and early 1990s.  This could be thought of as a currency for kids (after all, there were price guides that pegged the value of a baseball card to a fiat currency).  Who got rich?  Baseball card manufacturers (the Satoshis)  and card shops (the exchanges).

Edit:  With the baseball card analogy, although they were also very popular back in the days when kids put them in the spokes of their bicycle wheels and milk men delivered them at your door, the explosion of popularity in the late 80's and early 90's was aided through digital communication.  Online price guides, auctions, etc.  helped to 'stabilize' the value of cards.

None of those are novel, technology-wise. It's like comparing building a coal plant and inventing a new type of plant that can generate electricity in your home for free. You don't just go and invent the latter, by yourself, to get rich quick with the free electricity. If there were such a possibility, you would see your investor types throwing immense amounts of manpower at it. Satoshi is a single guy who rowed against the current to prove something and won.

Baseball card manufacturers and Satoshi? Come On! Maybe it's more appropriate to compare the ixcoin guy with baseball card people. It's not about the similarities between the card economy and Bitcoin economy, really.

Hindsight is always twenty-twenty. Looking back, it's hard to imagine the risk a guy like that is taking by investing his time and mind towards such a project. It seems obvious now. On the other hand, you have to know that a lot of brilliant people take the same risk but can't attain their goal. I don't see a lot of people competing with or queuing behind those people. We did come here because Bitcoin was already successful.
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
EDIT: this puts a lower bound to the answer of question 1: "How many Bitcoins in total does "Nakamoto" have?" (assuming "Nakamoto" means "Satoshi and friends"). Answer: at least 1.2 Million.

No it doesn't, because the fact that the coins haven't moved is not proof positive that someone is still in possession of them.

True. I am wrong.

We'll probably never have proof-positive they're not, because a) no one's going to admit to burning what's now worth a few million bucks and b) there's no way to prove you're not in control of them anyway.

You're assuming he lost the keys.

Given how long Bitcoins went being almost completely worthless, I would hazard a guess that a not insignificant portion of those BTC will never move, ever.

I don't think he lost keys. He's just not that careless and he was fully aware bitcoin could work well.

Now let me ask another question: How many miners where there in 2009?
hero member
Activity: 726
Merit: 500
I want to know who are those people that I'm going to make rich? Very rich.

Why?
Because I need to be sure the world will be a better place for my children to live in.

You can always stick with the existing monetary system and continue to enrich politicians and bankers at the expense of ordinary people.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
The largest "confirmed" holding by one person was 320k BTC a few months ago (the guy manages tens of thousands of company servers, and used CPU miner to mine when server is idle, he did this at an early stage of btc mining), and he already said he was liquidating his coins weekly. So I doubt any one person has more than 300k btc at this point.
legendary
Activity: 1896
Merit: 1353
My questions:
How many Bitcoins in total does "Nakamoto" have?

If this is a sincere question, I would like to know why you chose a title that suggests that Satoshi holds 1.5 million BTC.
Trying to spread FUD ?
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
Just a quick look at Pident:
http://pident.artefact2.com/factoids

Made it easy to find one large stash of 424,242 BTC sitting right here:
http://pident.artefact2.com/tx/7a2a6f66e87ed4e72d85ba7a82eda1572605c3330c461e171f58d7ff2763ac63
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
You can still go back using dollars...
legendary
Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
I want to know who are those people that I'm going to make rich? Very rich.

Why?
Because I need to be sure the world will be a better place for my children to live in.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
I want to know who are those people that I'm going to make rich? Very rich.

Why?

Smack.
newbie
Activity: 59
Merit: 0
I want to know who are those people that I'm going to make rich? Very rich.

Why?
legendary
Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
But I think that until the person(s) behind Bitcoin doesn't come forward I think that the best I can do is to reconsider if I should invest time and money into this project.
Same here. So I've decided not to invest until I know who are people that labeled themselves 'Satoshi'.


We know exactly what Bitcoin is, line for line you can see exactly what it is and what is does, we know its secure and we know there are no backdoors or methods of control available to anyone. Thats all that matters, could Santoishi have another purpose for Bitcoin, other than the obvious experiment in digital money? Hell yes, but that does not mean we can not use it in the mean time.  
I want to know who are those people that I'm going to make rich? Very rich.
member
Activity: 76
Merit: 10
But I think that until the person(s) behind Bitcoin doesn't come forward I think that the best I can do is to reconsider if I should invest time and money into this project.
Same here. So I've decided not to invest until I know who are people that labeled themselves 'Satoshi'.


We know exactly what Bitcoin is, line for line you can see exactly what it is and what is does, we know its secure and we know there are no backdoors or methods of control available to anyone. Thats all that matters, could Santoishi have another purpose for Bitcoin, other than the obvious experiment in digital money? Hell yes, but that does not mean we can not use it in the mean time.  
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
But I think that until the person(s) behind Bitcoin doesn't come forward I think that the best I can do is to reconsider if I should invest time and money into this project.
Same here. So I've decided not to invest until I know who are people that labeled themselves 'Satoshi'.

I don't understand. What would it change if he/they came forward? You don't need to trust Satoshi, you need to trust math, mainly.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1020
In my opinion, anybody who thinks 'Satoshi' didn't create Bitcoin with the intention (at least, in part) of getting rich, I think you're fooling yourself.  It's clearly built into the structure.  
Yet we haven't witnessed an intense development effort for such novel systems before or since Bitcoin. There were many different plans for a distributed currency (e.g. a distributed anonymous version of ripple), but only by a handful of people. In my experience, you just can't and don't work on such stuff if you intend to get rich. He must have imagined gaining wealth as a consequence of his success, but the reason the structure is built this way is definitely about success of the currency. As a consequence, people who believed in it got to have more coins. Even so, there are many early adopters who (at least claim to) have very little coins left.


To me, this is a a weak argument.  Obviously, we haven't witnessed  an "intense development effort for such novel systems" since Bitcoin because that would be a period of what...2 years?  And, the Internet has only been around for a couple decades before Bitcoin.  The age of digital global information exchange is still in its infancy.  And, I would argue there have been novel attempts on a smaller systemic scale.  Linden dollars, for one.  Did Linden dollars make the 2nd life owners wealthy?   You betcha.  Now you got Facebook Credits.  Perhaps you could even go before digital communication and look at things like Baseball Cards, the popularity of which exploded in the late 1980s and early 1990s.  This could be thought of as a currency for kids (after all, there were price guides that pegged the value of a baseball card to a fiat currency).  Who got rich?  Baseball card manufacturers (the Satoshis)  and card shops (the exchanges).

Edit:  With the baseball card analogy, although they were also very popular back in the days when kids put them in the spokes of their bicycle wheels and milk men delivered them at your door, the explosion of popularity in the late 80's and early 90's was aided through digital communication.  Online price guides, auctions, etc.  helped to 'stabilize' the value of cards.
legendary
Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
But I think that until the person(s) behind Bitcoin doesn't come forward I think that the best I can do is to reconsider if I should invest time and money into this project.
Same here. So I've decided not to invest until I know who are people that labeled themselves 'Satoshi'.
hero member
Activity: 836
Merit: 1007
"How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time..."
Greed is good. It is our desire to improve our lives. It is our desire to create and produce those things that others would voluntarily trade for. This process enriches both the lives of ourselves and of others. It is only when fraud, deceit, plunder and murder are used that greed becomes bad.
donator
Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015
So I predict that a big portion of those early Bitcoins that have not been moved, will never ever be moved, because the wallets are just lost.

I can attest to the fact that I started CPU mining in 2009 when I first found Bitcoin, and then when I found out they were worth nothing and there was no way to sell them, I removed the program. I didn't get back into it till the end of 2010 when they were actually worth something. My guess is that I didn't CPU mine for more than a day or two, but those coins I earned will never be used again.
full member
Activity: 185
Merit: 112
In all seriousness, it would make no sense at all for Satoshi to step forward and disclose anything about himself. It is obscenely smart for him to have disappeared and here's hoping he lives out his days in peace, wealth, and comfort, reflecting upon the incredible invention he has bestowed upon mankind.

+1

sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
EDIT: this puts a lower bound to the answer of question 1: "How many Bitcoins in total does "Nakamoto" have?" (assuming "Nakamoto" means "Satoshi and friends"). Answer: at least 1.2 Million.

No it doesn't, because the fact that the coins haven't moved is not proof positive that someone is still in possession of them. We'll probably never have proof-positive they're not, because a) no one's going to admit to burning what's now worth a few million bucks and b) there's no way to prove you're not in control of them anyway.

Given how long Bitcoins went being almost completely worthless, I would hazard a guess that a not insignificant portion of those BTC will never move, ever.
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