Topic: SatoshiDICE.com - The World's Most Popular Bitcoin Game - page 229. (Read 495957 times)

Well, there's no such thing as "rollback".  There is the Finney attack which is to include (but not broadcast) a transaction that spends funds to another address controlled by the miner.  Immediately when that miner (or pool operator) solves a block, hold the block and place a bet with SatoshiDICE with the same coin.   If it wins, toss the mined block and collect the winnings.  If it loses, broadcast the block. and get the losses back.  Of course, the problem with that is that it is pretty easy to detect that it is happening.

So a mining pool operator could get away with it until SatoshiDICE (or anyone else looking at the double spends) points out which pool operator is doing this and thus that pool loses hashing capacity as miners move on to other pools that don't use their customer's hashing strength to cheat bitcoin businesses.  (and, more importantly, having "bad luck" by throwing away blocks you as a pool miner had shares for, if payouts are of that category).

Also, as my post just one above yours mentioned, there is an expense to carry this out and a way for SatoshiDICE to mitigate if it happens enough to worry about it.

[Edited to clarify why miners won't stay with a pool that would cheat here.]

You can if you are a pool owner. In this case you can rollback some lost bets.

Yup, I guess I should have qualified my statement by saying payouts for wagers that end up being double spends don't cause a loss to SatoshiDICE.

We know that to do that type of double spend (using the Finney attack) is expensive. And a mitigation should SatoshiDICE start to see these occur, is to delay disclosing WIN/LOSS status long enough so that a financial loss is ensured for anyone attempting this strategy.

What if I could double-spend just my losing bets?  That would cost them plenty.

LOL.

Just in case anyone else is unaware of how SatoshiDICE works, the payouts include coin from the original wager.  This is the innovation that allowed them to do instant payouts without having to wait for confirmations.  From another thread:

I don't think there is anything to fix, and all new transactions first appear unknown if I am correct.

Details   2012-12-02 03:11:38   lessthan 32768   3b891060   b798d3d7   1GATLxn   UNKNOWN   11.80000000   WIN   23.09210000   15620
Details   2012-12-02 01:52:58   lessthan 60000   56c86905   c1c6e98f   1EMaBMm   UNKNOWN   0.11000000   WIN   0.11731574   47996
Details   2012-12-02 01:47:35   lessthan 32768   9dd3dc17   cbcc3ce3   1PRa6Vp   UNKNOWN   0.11100000   WIN   0.21672700   19892
Details   2012-12-02 01:31:12   lessthan 12000   dda98cec   20f2ff35   1ANmugX   UNKNOWN   0.05000000   LOSE   0.00000001   40097

different people just played now on satoshdice, all new bets seem to get this now.

Evidence of double spending: http://blockchain.info/double-spends

This looks really really bad  

Shut the site down ASAP!
And Fix this ASAP,
before the hole is dug too deep.

NOTICE, THIS!

Details    Processed    Bet    Bet Tx    Pay Tx    Address    Pay Status    Bet Amount    Result    Payment Amount    Lucky
Details   2012-12-02 00:19:29   lessthan 32000   b03c3ccd   2f801746   1GATLxn   UNKNOWN   1.00000000   WIN   2.00334800   14186
Details   2012-12-02 00:06:23   lessthan 32768   758c78bc   b36f6621   1NjvTe7   UNKNOWN   2.02000000   WIN   3.95264000   27339
Details   2012-12-01 23:27:05   lessthan 32768   ac25291e   d02025a8   1NjvTe7   UNKNOWN   3.00000000   WIN   5.87050000   13650
Details   2012-12-01 19:11:43   lessthan 48000   c67cdf9c   bda7ff8e   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   5.00000000   WIN   6.68732666   21121
Details   2012-12-01 19:09:51   lessthan 2000   4ab33817   886be9b2   1dhAwVy   UNKNOWN   10.00000000   WIN   319.86518000   1987
Details   2012-12-01 19:09:44   lessthan 32768   4ab33817   23406497   1dhAwVy   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   78.27950000   1987
Details   2012-12-01 19:09:38   lessthan 16000   4ab33817   0bf1a609   1dhAwVy   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   160.10734000   1987
Details   2012-12-01 19:09:34   lessthan 12000   4ab33817   a62e2b2a   1dhAwVy   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   213.40995333   1987
Details   2012-12-01 19:09:31   lessthan 48000   4ab33817   d55da0d2   1dhAwVy   UNKNOWN   5.00000000   WIN   6.68732666   1987
Details   2012-12-01 19:09:30   lessthan 8000   4ab33817   11d217f6   1dhAwVy   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   320.01518000   1987
Details   2012-12-01 17:13:05   lessthan 32000   2509e45f   67d6d7d7   13i5PSA   UNKNOWN   1.00000000   WIN   2.00334800   17148
Details   2012-12-01 14:46:13   lessthan 52000   a2dde181   4e951907   1AThpQ6   UNKNOWN   45.00000000   WIN   55.57721384   1678 <<< My Bet
Details   2012-12-01 12:06:13   lessthan 48000   5b57eba0   5a93ea53   1G2WrMq   UNKNOWN   10.00000000   WIN   13.37515333   46853
Details   2012-12-01 12:06:11   lessthan 32768   aaedead5   37ef4952   1B5h9sf   UNKNOWN   20.00000000   WIN   39.13950000   19090
Details   2012-12-01 12:06:09   lessthan 48000   aaedead5   1e55ab85   1B5h9sf   UNKNOWN   10.00000000   WIN   13.37515333   19090
Details   2012-12-01 12:06:00   lessthan 24000   aaedead5   2c852bbb   1B5h9sf   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   106.80472666   19090
Details   2012-12-01 12:05:56   lessthan 32000   aaedead5   4af23412   1B5h9sf   UNKNOWN   20.00000000   WIN   40.07646000   19090
Details   2012-12-01 12:05:52   lessthan 32768   a2b13515   6949d2f2   1Fy84Eb   UNKNOWN   20.00000000   WIN   39.13950000   16682
Details   2012-12-01 12:05:46   lessthan 24000   a2b13515   ff2785ec   1Fy84Eb   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   106.80472666   16682
Details   2012-12-01 12:05:23   lessthan 16000   5cddbb56   1070769b   1Mn9Zn1   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   160.10734000   6271
Details   2012-12-01 12:05:21   lessthan 24000   5cddbb56   4de1e441   1Mn9Zn1   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   106.80472666   6271
Details   2012-12-01 12:05:19   lessthan 8000   5cddbb56   daa74271   1Mn9Zn1   UNKNOWN   20.00000000   WIN   160.00734000   6271
Details   2012-12-01 12:05:11   lessthan 32768   5cddbb56   2d21184d   1Mn9Zn1   UNKNOWN   20.00000000   WIN   39.13950000   6271
Details   2012-12-01 12:05:09   lessthan 12000   5cddbb56   0fe5c216   1Mn9Zn1   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   213.40995333   6271
Details   2012-12-01 12:03:05   lessthan 12000   1e362010   2b4b8507   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   213.40995333   850
Details   2012-12-01 12:03:01   lessthan 16000   1e362010   1201959d   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   160.10734000   850
Details   2012-12-01 12:02:59   lessthan 8000   1e362010   6cce8649   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   20.00000000   WIN   160.00734000   850
Details   2012-12-01 12:02:56   lessthan 1000   1e362010   3c7c4d82   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   5.00000000   WIN   319.84018000   850
Details   2012-12-01 12:02:52   lessthan 2000   1e362010   0269ef39   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   5.00000000   WIN   159.93234000   850
Details   2012-12-01 12:02:49   lessthan 24000   1e362010   87eaf8cb   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   106.80472666   850
Details   2012-12-01 12:02:37   lessthan 32000   1e362010   734a1576   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   20.00000000   WIN   40.07646000   850
Details   2012-12-01 12:02:34   lessthan 32768   1e362010   a8226a94   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   20.00000000   WIN   39.13950000   850
Details   2012-12-01 12:01:55   lessthan 32768   2874a677   fab95c5c   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   20.00000000   WIN   39.13950000   9880
Details   2012-12-01 12:01:51   lessthan 48000   2874a677   bccafe28   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   10.00000000   WIN   13.37515333   9880
Details   2012-12-01 12:01:44   lessthan 16000   2874a677   c042df0a   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   160.10734000   9880
Details   2012-12-01 12:01:41   lessthan 12000   2874a677   79e8f717   1EP4rM8   UNKNOWN   40.00000000   WIN   213.40995333   9880

http://satoshidice.com/lookup.php?tx=&limit=100&min_bet=1&status=UNKNOWN


ALL high wins are all unknowns, clearly its a BTC issue

Maybe its possible someone put a bet of max, all down to less then 8, and a 2 rolled.
And they got thousands of BTC if not tens of thousands.
That would certainly bankcrupt the site.
With split transaction and signing one number to all bets.
Though it would have to be a lucky roll.

Seems they need to limit same bid transactions to 5. Though Only if they are *extremely extremely extremely unlucky,
and someone is crazy enough to do this.

Details   2012-12-02 02:10:08   lessthan 56000   338563b3   93752f49   1FYnD86   CONFIRMED   0.10000000   LOSE   0.00000001   65487
Details   2012-12-02 02:09:49   lessthan 48000   0f055c86   41070a83   1GsQY8W   CONFIRMED   0.19950001   WIN   0.26634429   8489
Details   2012-12-02 02:05:17   lessthan 32768   9d213200   10dee67c   1FZ8gXA   UNKNOWN   13.00000000   WIN   25.44050000   6523
Details   2012-12-02 02:01:45   lessthan 32768   5ed43ff1   7b12123b   1JNv6WZ   PENDING   10.00000000   LOSE   0.04950000   63486
Details   2012-12-02 01:55:31   lessthan 48000   170186d9   984c1e5e   1DFGFvF   CONFIRMED   0.09896603   LOSE   0.00000001   53926

It seems to only unknown on a large wager of 13 BTC.
*If its a win, if its a loss, then they get the loss balance no problem
So it seems its possible they don't have the BTC?

Come to think about it, if they got double spent, or some loss of BTC.
Will they be able to repay all the BTC'S out?

You're getting ahead of yourself, I think this is a technical problem/someone maybe trying to double spend against satoshidice?

What if they run with all the money!
Man that would suck!

I would be down $720 And can I sue them or get justice? After all
its bitcoin and I don't think justice systems would handle them well.

Even better:
http://satoshidice.com/lookup.php?tx=&limit=1000&min_bet=10&status=UNKNOWN

What causes this?

Looks like there are some significant delays with ALL many wagers made on SatoshiDICE right now:
 - http://satoshidice.com/lookup.php?tx=&limit=1000&status=ALL

What do I do if I send a tx and never get one back??? 

I have made a bet of 45 BTC, And I have achieved a win.
I haven't gotten payed out for over 10 hours.

http://satoshidice.com/lookup.php?tx=&limit=50&min_bet=45&status=UNKNOWN

Details   2012-12-01 14:46:13   lessthan 52000   a2dde181   4e951907   1AThpQ6   UNKNOWN   45.00000000
WIN   55.57721384   1678

And I also made another bet, of multiple bets about 10 hours later,




Details   2012-12-02 00:15:18   lessthan 52000   8483446f   3faf4834   13cjE1V   PENDING   1.50000000   WIN   1.85209046   40845, I played 30 bets all from 0.0015% to 50% and then 1.5 BTC on 79%.
That was a win.

But nothing and nothing.

I contacted the admin, he didn't respond, Its been a longtime.
Site says immediately, and its not. This is the worst delay I ever had.
It has over 79 confirmations.

I tested bitzino out to confirm if its my side, and it got 1 bitcent instantly, it works perfectly.
So its satoshdice side.

From the delay, I want interest  

Satoshdice is one of the biggest transaction on the network,
and its there job to make sure everything goes right, after all
it says payout is immediate.

From going against all your terms, and this unbelievable delay.
Make my 45 BET a 50% bet and it won for 90 BTC.
After all that's pennies and nickles to how much Satoshidice has made so far.
And it goes against all terms, so where's my interest

Besides this is the second time this delay occurred.

A bit slow again today...

I don't know of a good way of removing unconfirmed transactions other than using the PyWallet program which is a little awkward to use.  But if you want to try, there are instructions in the first post here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pywallet-22-manage-your-wallet-update-required-34028  See "Delete transactions from your wallet".

Close down bitcoin and make a backup of your wallet before you try it.

Thanks for all the effort in looking into this tiny problem.  I went back thru my transactions, and sure enough, on the 25th I have an unmatched .01953848 transaction.  That must be it finally clearing in.  I still however have those unconfirmed transactions that should disappear.  Do you know of the magic keystroke to get those to go away?

If you take that transaction ID and search on blockchain.info for it like this:
  http://blockchain.info/search?search=b80ee0c2d01f40731a48bf0f5ca97004602a4357da4e2fd9fb3dac43b77818e0
you get to see the 3 outputs.

You'll see that all 3 are marked as 'spent', including the two satoshidice outputs:



That means they've processed the bets and payed you out.

Click the two 'spent' links next to the two satoshidice bets to see how much they paid.

The 0.001 bet to the long-shot address lost:



and the 0.01 bet to the 50/50 address won:



So maybe you just didn't notice the payouts in your wallet?  Or are you sure they're not there?