SatoshiDICE.com - The World's Most Popular Bitcoin Game - page 246.

forexmasterja

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Quote from: dooglus on July 15, 2012, 09:54:26 PM

Quote from: forexmasterja on July 15, 2012, 09:48:41 PM

I have been in touch with MTGOX and they claim that the address that my withdrawal request was paid from was not one from mtgox's wallet. I find it hard to understand how that is possible.

It's possible the coins they sent you were 'change' from a previous withdrawal they made to someone else, and so they don't see the address in their wallet. That doesn't mean they don't control the address however.

Quote from: forexmasterja on July 15, 2012, 09:48:41 PM

And so now they claim the coins that were returned is not in their possession. Is that possible ? What are your views guys ?

The coins they sent on your behalf probably either came from a change address or somebody else's deposit address. In the first case they should still have your coins, but in the second case they will have been seen as a deposit by this other mtgox account holder, and may well have already been withdrawn by him.

I don't see how mtgox can claim that they don't control the address from which they made your withdrawal however. That sounds impossible to me.

Thats what I think too, here are the details the original satoshi dice transaction

http://www.satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=89c1f57cc943170a4d56fd10f75636f7c7a0ca3d1be66550962475046391457b
The address in question is 1CFVvAgicGheKxa3PedMgmw78LT5YXrk7a the coins were sent from mtgox when I did my withdrawal request.

I think everything can be seen from those links, now I dont know how MTGOX is claiming to not have that address in their wallet. Is there anything else I can do ?

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

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Quote from: forexmasterja on July 15, 2012, 09:48:41 PM

I have been in touch with MTGOX and they claim that the address that my withdrawal request was paid from was not one from mtgox's wallet. I find it hard to understand how that is possible.

It's possible the coins they sent you were 'change' from a previous withdrawal they made to someone else, and so they don't see the address in their wallet. That doesn't mean they don't control the address however.

Quote from: forexmasterja on July 15, 2012, 09:48:41 PM

And so now they claim the coins that were returned is not in their possession. Is that possible ? What are your views guys ?

The coins they sent on your behalf probably either came from a change address or somebody else's deposit address. In the first case they should still have your coins, but in the second case they will have been seen as a deposit by this other mtgox account holder, and may well have already been withdrawn by him.

I don't see how mtgox can claim that they don't control the address from which they made your withdrawal however. That sounds impossible to me.

forexmasterja

full member

Activity: 130

Merit: 100

I have a situation,

I accidentally withdrew some funds directly from my mtgox account to a satoshi dice game, funnily the bet won and the funds were sent from satoshi to the originating address. I have been in touch with MTGOX and they claim that the address that my withdrawal request was paid from was not one from mtgox's wallet. I find it hard to understand how that is possible. And so now they claim the coins that were returned is not in their possession. Is that possible ? What are your views guys ?

evoorhees

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1023

Democracy is the original 51% attack

SatoshiDice house edge is now reduced down to 1.9% (was 3% for a while to help us heal some of our abysmal losses in June). Please go easy on us this time

Play now!

Enjoy!

nimda

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

0xFB0D8D1534241423

free market and all that Wink

but I bet they charge more in fees

evoorhees

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Merit: 1023

Democracy is the original 51% attack

Quote from: dooglus on July 12, 2012, 10:30:56 PM

Quote from: fireduck on July 05, 2012, 11:06:22 PM

They are not any of ours. My guess is they are created by someone for interacting with satoshidice. The "BTC" seems a little silly. I mean, it is a bitcoin address, that it is for bitcoins seems a little redundant.

It looks like that was someone testing a clone of SatoshiDice.

Bastards. It's on.

dooglus

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Merit: 1333

Quote from: fireduck on July 05, 2012, 11:06:22 PM

They are not any of ours. My guess is they are created by someone for interacting with satoshidice. The "BTC" seems a little silly. I mean, it is a bitcoin address, that it is for bitcoins seems a little redundant.

It looks like that was someone testing a clone of SatoshiDice.

dooglus

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Quote from: dooglus on July 10, 2012, 08:46:24 PM

It looks to me like the stated house edge is incorrect.

I figured out what's going on. The house edge is 3.5% on winning bets, and -0.5% on losing bets, making 3.0% overall.

dooglus

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Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: deepceleron on July 10, 2012, 05:06:21 PM

Darn it, would have paid >5600BTC if I hit 0...
http://www.satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=abe865dc491e7ee95dec47bad1723d04bb3dc04d15040e40cec1af6799fc2aee

The URL http://satoshidice.com (with no www) is down, although there are many links to it all over the forum (including the first post).

Seems OK from here. Maybe they fixed it.

I was just looking at the odds on the main page:

It looks to me like the stated house edge is incorrect.

For example, on the 'under 32768' bet, if the house edge is 3% then you should get 1.94x when you win, but the main page says you only get 1.935x. That represents a house edge of 3.25%:

>>> under = 32768
>>> he = 3.0
>>> 65536 * (1 - he/100) / under
1.94
>>> 100 * (1 - (1.935 * under / 65536))
3.25

Similarly for the 'under 1000' bet, for a house edge of 3% you should get 63.57x but you only get 63.247x, for a house edge of 3.49%:

>>> under = 1000
>>> 65536 * (1 - he/100) / under
63.57
>>> 100 * (1 - (63.247 * under / 65536))
3.49273681640625

The same happens for every bet I've looked at so far. The quoted reward for winning is less than the stated house edge would call for.

Is there something wrong with my maths here? Or what's up? Is SatoshiDice really taking a house edge of more than they claim?

deepceleron

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Activity: 1512

Merit: 1036

Darn it, would have paid >5600BTC if I hit 0...
http://www.satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=abe865dc491e7ee95dec47bad1723d04bb3dc04d15040e40cec1af6799fc2aee

The URL http://satoshidice.com (with no www) is down, although there are many links to it all over the forum (including the first post).

dooglus

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Merit: 1333

Quote from: fireduck on July 10, 2012, 08:27:41 AM

I think those amounts that are close are actually wins on less than 64000.

For example this one is a small win, but with the transaction fee taken out it ends up as a loss:
http://satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=f1af22ddf109fd284f1384dba01cb8421fabb219fd05f48075133bc7dfe4b640

Oh, of course. I should have looked at those transactions in more detail.

Thanks for addressing my post.

fireduck

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 251

Quote from: dooglus on July 08, 2012, 01:25:53 PM

It is returned to you.

Here's an example of a 140 BTC bet that was refunded.

Usually the refunded amount is the same as the bet, but sometimes it's slightly more or slightly less. I don't know why the refund isn't always the same as the bet amount.

Edit: according to my calculations, 1789 bets have been refunded. 934 of them refunded the right amount. 308 refunded slightly more than the bet amount, and 547 refunded slightly less. The biggest overpayment was 0.00018160 BTC and the biggest underpayment was 0.00014976 BTC, so really insignificant amounts.

I think those amounts that are close are actually wins on less than 64000.

For example this one is a small win, but with the transaction fee taken out it ends up as a loss:
http://satoshidice.com/full.php?tx=f1af22ddf109fd284f1384dba01cb8421fabb219fd05f48075133bc7dfe4b640

luicon

sr. member

Activity: 262

Merit: 250

is very nice web, i like it a lot
too sad i lost all my fortune on it (0.03 btc)
now i am poor again Tongue

dooglus

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Merit: 1333

Quote from: luicon on July 08, 2012, 01:14:06 PM

whats happens if someone send more than the max. bet ?

It is returned to you.

Here's an example of a 140 BTC bet that was refunded.

Usually the refunded amount is the same as the bet, but sometimes it's slightly more or slightly less. I don't know why the refund isn't always the same as the bet amount.

Edit: according to my calculations, 1789 bets have been refunded. 934 of them refunded the right amount. 308 refunded slightly more than the bet amount, and 547 refunded slightly less. The biggest overpayment was 0.00018160 BTC and the biggest underpayment was 0.00014976 BTC, so really insignificant amounts.

luicon

sr. member

Activity: 262

Merit: 250

whats happens if someone send more than the max. bet ?

dooglus

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Quote from: luicon on July 08, 2012, 09:00:19 AM

why there are bets of 100 btc if the max is 25 btc ?

Because you can put more than one bet in a single transaction, but all of them get the same 'lucky number'. So you can bet:

* 25 BTC on lessthan 32000,
* 25 BTC on lessthan 32768,
* 25 BTC on lessthan 24000, and
* 25 BTC on lessthan 16000

in a single transaction, get lucky number 63500, and lose the whole lot at once.

I guess technically it's 4 bets, but since you only get one lucky number per transaction I was counting it as one.

luicon

sr. member

Activity: 262

Merit: 250

why there are bets of 100 btc if the max is 25 btc ?

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

SatoshiDice has been a lot better in recent days at not missing any incoming transactions - that's why I've stopped posting lists of unprocessed transaction IDs.

However...

http://blockchain.info/tx-index/11502701/c9cca3a9e5a1494cee2c87c950c1283f83d091920cb6e6749b3e5930d8d69ac2 hasn't yet been processed, and is 12 hours old. It's the only one that has been missed for days now. I wonder what's special about it (other than that it's a bet from DeepBit's address). Maybe the fact that the 'VayNert' address has over 353165 transactions on it triggered a bug in SatoshiDice?

Peter Todd

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Quote from: dooglus on July 05, 2012, 11:34:23 PM

It turns out the bitcoinica coins have been played on satoshidice recently too:

http://blockchain.info/tx-index/5484758 shows the bitcoinica haul being split up into amounts of 2600.

The 3rd output, http://blockchain.info/tx-index/5489226, is the "expect mass leak soon" message, ascii encoded in a transaction's values.
The 2nd output, http://blockchain.info/tx-index/7915029, has lots of inputs from 1FLo9g9AZ7Up1tgLv4xyx8xvAKiGGhAi6p, which was used recently for a series of high-stake satoshidice bets:

http://www.satoshidice.com/lookup.php?tx=1FLo9g9AZ7Up1tgLv4xyx8xvAKiGGhAi6p

31 bets.
Total stake: 303 BTC
Total return: 299.51723327 BTC

A loss of 1.15%.

That 1FLo9g9AZ7Up1tgLv4xyx8xvAKiGGhAi6p address is very strange. It's been receiving huge numbers of small integer-valued BTC transactions from a large number of addresses, with the transactions spaced seconds apart. Some sort of mixing network maybe? It'd have to be one owned by a direct recipient of bitcoinica funds, as shown by transaction http://blockchain.info/tx-index/7915029/95dea21bca1a0b337f9f8cbdfb56c5d25546ea5a9e43d9dd96f9e3e9eac57018 Also, if you look at the dendogram for that transaction, you see that the final amount is being split into large numbers of 100-300BTC payments, which in turn are getting split up in all sorts of ways. Possibly this is because they're being funneled through a wallet service like instawallet; the values after that point are all over the place, like more typical transactions.

ThiagoCMC

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฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!

Quote from: evoorhees on July 05, 2012, 04:12:59 PM

Quote from: ThiagoCMC on July 04, 2012, 02:34:11 PM

Will be a SatoshiDice son powered by Litecoin? Wink

No, I don't support the Litecoin project, personally. However, I've offered to sell a clone of SatoshiDice to a litecoin supporter who contacted me, but I think my asking price was too high Wink

How much? PM-me...

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