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Topic: Save Gox - page 4. (Read 11357 times)

legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
April 19, 2014, 12:30:07 PM
#53
So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.
He was lying all the way. And just for that we can press charges on him for trying to cover up evidence, should be enough to send him to jail.

Beware Mark, japanese jails aren't funny at all : http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/08/world/prisons-in-japan-are-safe-but-harsh.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-40715/My-jail-nightmare-Sir-Paul.html

This is what japanese penal code says about suppressing evidence :
Quote
Article 104. (Suppression of Evidence)
A person who suppresses, damages, counter
feits or alters evidence relating to a
criminal case of another person, or who uses co
unterfeit or altered evidence, shall be
punished by imprisonment with work for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more
than 200,000 yen
Quote
Article 238. (Constructive Robbery)
When a person who has committed the crime of theft uses assault or intimidation
in order to retain the stolen property, evade arrest or destroy evidence, the person
shall be dealt with in the same manner as with robbery.
Article 236. (Robbery)
(1) A person who robs another of property through assault or intimidation commits
the crime of robbery and shall be puni
shed by imprisonment with work for a
definite term of not less than 5 years.
(2) The same shall apply to a person who obtains or causes another to obtain a
profit by the means proscribed under the preceding paragraph.

Do we know it's now a criminal case or is it still a civil proceeding?  If it's criminal now then he's fucked. If it's settled as civil business his business is fucked but he'll walk away.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
April 19, 2014, 06:47:12 AM
#52
So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.
He was lying all the way. And just for that we can press charges on him for trying to cover up evidence, should be enough to send him to jail.

Beware Mark, japanese jails aren't funny at all : http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/08/world/prisons-in-japan-are-safe-but-harsh.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-40715/My-jail-nightmare-Sir-Paul.html

This is what japanese penal code says about suppressing evidence :
Quote
Article 104. (Suppression of Evidence)
A person who suppresses, damages, counter
feits or alters evidence relating to a
criminal case of another person, or who uses co
unterfeit or altered evidence, shall be
punished by imprisonment with work for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more
than 200,000 yen
Quote
Article 238. (Constructive Robbery)
When a person who has committed the crime of theft uses assault or intimidation
in order to retain the stolen property, evade arrest or destroy evidence, the person
shall be dealt with in the same manner as with robbery.
Article 236. (Robbery)
(1) A person who robs another of property through assault or intimidation commits
the crime of robbery and shall be puni
shed by imprisonment with work for a
definite term of not less than 5 years.
(2) The same shall apply to a person who obtains or causes another to obtain a
profit by the means proscribed under the preceding paragraph.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
April 19, 2014, 05:10:25 AM
#51
There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.

Is there any chance of a neutral and professional audit happening before the likely liquidation of Mt Gox? Will the audit summary be published in public?
hero member
Activity: 899
Merit: 1002
April 19, 2014, 04:11:43 AM
#50
Sure help them start up again, but collectively get in writing a contract that charges a gigantic amount of interest on the coins they stole/owe you, at least 30%.
member
Activity: 93
Merit: 10
April 19, 2014, 03:26:59 AM
#49
It's a good idea.
sr. member
Activity: 265
Merit: 250
Football President
April 19, 2014, 03:07:53 AM
#48
I don't believe we ever find the missing bitcoins

see
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-of-major-bitcoin-heists-thefts-hacks-scams-and-losses-576337




Bitcoin need a strong exchange to survive ---
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
April 19, 2014, 02:45:07 AM
#47
savegox and other similar initiatives are fine and very welcome. I applaud everyone involved in these projects.
But for bitcoin to survive we need to find the lost 650KBTC, not other new 650KBTC. We need to find out what happened in mtgox. We can consider it an accident at the very beginning of the bit coin story, but this may become a fatal one for bitcoin itself. 7% of the whole monetary mass cannot be considered an accident. It's totally unacceptable and bitcoin won't survive.
Everyone in the community has to realize that it's imperative to join forces to discover the truth and recover the stolen coins. It's not just to refund creditors, it's because 7% in wrong hands will influence the future of bitcoin and at the end will cause bitcoin to fail.

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1002
April 19, 2014, 02:30:40 AM
#46
There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.
Agreed. We should get one, too. That's what bankruptcy trustees do.

I suspect that this will eventually be resolved not by technical means, but by Mark Karpeles being arrested and interrogated by the Tokyo police.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
April 19, 2014, 01:22:04 AM
#45
So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.

What did he plan on doing running a scam then he realized that there is no way to launder that massive amount of coins so he made up stuff.
vip
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
April 19, 2014, 12:57:06 AM
#44
So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
April 19, 2014, 12:32:48 AM
#43
So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
April 18, 2014, 08:25:06 PM
#42
I am sure Court and lawyers and banks  will take the bulk of 200,000  BTC

must be a silly idea that may work - would it be possible to crowd fund a new mtgox IE  127000 customer put in 5 BTC each and own 1/127000 of the new mtgox


or the 550K customers put in 1 BTC and get 1/550k share

bitcoin need a trust worthy exchange ---- at present the biggest exchanges are in locations that have very little regulations
Those who have less than 6.5 BTC (5BTC +30% from 200k BTC) will not put 5 BTC as they will be losers in that story.
Only 2163 creditors have over 6.5 BTC, you will just get 10815 BTC if they all give 5 BTC each.
Never gonna work, ever.

If I have 4 BTC, why would I give 5 to lose 1 when liquidation would give me back at most 1,2 BTC or in any case a positive output?
sr. member
Activity: 265
Merit: 250
Football President
April 18, 2014, 07:56:44 PM
#41
I am sure Court and lawyers and banks  will take the bulk of 200,000  BTC

must be a silly idea that may work - would it be possible to crowd fund a new mtgox IE  127000 customer put in 5 BTC each and own 1/127000 of the new mtgox


or the 550K customers put in 1 BTC and get 1/550k share

bitcoin need a trust worthy exchange ---- at present the biggest exchanges are in locations that have very little regulations
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1040
A Great Time to Start Something!
April 18, 2014, 06:50:49 PM
#40
This was posted on cryptocrypt.org but is important enough for the community to know about it so John gave me his permission to repost it here.


Quote
Hi everyone, my name is John Betts, and I am leading the proposed rehabilitation effort for Mt Gox, and Goat asked me to post here and communicate with you.


In short - we want to take over management of the company from Mark, so that we can handle the Civil Rehabilitation proceedings, distribute customers the assets currently under the control of the Supervisor, and rebuild the exchange.


We also have plans to lead asset recovery efforts, and to give customers participation in the new exchange through a combination of equity interest and revenue share.


I would like to begin a dialogue with you, to introduce myself, our syndicate, and what a rehabilitation plan might look like, and to seek your support to convince the Supervisor not go down the liquidation route that will further hurt customers, and to support our effort lead the civil rehabilitation proceeding, which we will pursue with your collaboration.


Right now, we are working with the Supervisor to convince them bankruptcy only protects Mark, and would be detrimental to creditors.


Hopefully you share our concern about liquidation vs. rehabilitation.


If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to reach out.


We are in the process of preparing more detail around our proposal, and I will share that with you as we release it.


Best regards,
JB

They have a site set up at savegox.com

I'm not sure this will work but I like the idea of it. Getting rid of Mark and having a professional audit by people who care about BTC seems like a better path than what is on offer. Anyway open to your ideas and feedback.

-Goat-

...and to seek your support to convince the Supervisor not go down the liquidation route that will further hurt customers.
The decision to liquidate has already been made by the court.

Simple yes or no:
It is already too late to change the most recent court "decision", correct?
legendary
Activity: 1901
Merit: 1024
April 18, 2014, 06:41:35 PM
#39
@renfr
I don`t care for Mark K. i don`t know the full truth and I will let it be concluded soon in future, if he did wrong he should take the consequence

But our primary goal should be recovery for BTC as whole and % of our lost funds... and that goal for all must be CLEAR!

The most best and fair way Gox crisis take to conclusion it will more help a trust in BTC..... some new company with upgraded security and restored "trust" in BTC would help a lot in general

Just remember we have no safe heaven for exchange blindly trusting in bitstamp and BTC-e is same as insane, you can preach WE KNEW mtgox will fail, but that is just stupid and selfish way!, or we should know how to protect BTC! those are all excuses

BTC need SECURE exchange naw if we wont to restore trust in it!

What it will be called or how it is made is no important at all
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1040
A Great Time to Start Something!
April 18, 2014, 06:37:36 PM
#38
The criminal investigation is more promising. That money went somewhere, and the bankruptcy trustee's job is to find out where and get it back. Now that the Tokyo police and the Tokyo district court both suspect an inside job, and Karpeles has been fired, I suspect there will be progress.

Current status:

Community:  200,000 BTC and the malleability lie detected.

Court and lawyers: None.


Court and lawyers are actually a large negative balance.
Sadly, the court costs and hourly lawyer fees will eat up a huge chunk of the 200,000 BTC.
full member
Activity: 169
Merit: 101
Jon Holmquist
April 18, 2014, 05:10:34 PM
#37
What is wrong in that? Why should they compensate the Gox customers? No one will spend BTC450k to acquire Gox. Gox customers should be compensated by Mark Kerpeles, not the new owner. Even if Mark K is kicked out of Gox, his responsibility does not end there. But the new owners should distribute the 200k stash which Mt Gox is possessing to the customers.

They'd be better off spending that simply creating a new exchange and jumping through all of the legal hoops. IMO, there should be no imperative for any new owners to have to compensate for the failure/theft by Karpeles, he should take complete and utter responsibility and pay his dues either by returning the BTC or rotting in jail. Honestly though, even if there is an audit and new owners I'm doubtful it'll ever be restored to a point where it once was - there has been way to much negative media and stigma associated with Gox now.

This is entirely true.

Brock and the team are doing it because it is good for the community. Brock is invested in many other BTC companies. Mt. Gox screwing over its customers (a large percentage of Bitcoiners) is bad for the community.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
April 18, 2014, 04:46:49 PM
#36
1. If court decide to sell OUR BTC at mtgox i will go to japan and there will blood!!!, only most retarded system would sell assets which can be split in fair way! (that would be insane! BTC is not something which can not be split so sell off is only way!)

2. The plan is nice, but the ppl/company that wish to buy out mtgox must prove their intention by some guarantee or some big $$ investment in new company! (sure in long run 500K validated accounts and the hype it can generate is not something small, the real benefit can be huge for whole BTC not just new company)

3. 200K is NOT 20%, you must know we don`t know the real audit balance! (I think its more like 30-40%)
- they must check all AML accounts for real persons
- they must decline all fake accounts, accounts of Mark K., McCaleb, etc... (FUK them!) and accounts of illegal business (like silk road, etc)

4. I think they don`t need to recover all lost but over time most to creditors and they need to have good plan
So selling your bitcoins for cash is an outrage but a fatfuck heisting them is no problem?
If you want to do something then you have to direct your actions towards the responsible (Mark K.) not the court which is actually trying to find solutions to the problems caused by Mr. Soonish-much-frappuccinos.

Now that he's out from his position of CEO, I really hope that he gets detained and pay for his crimes, no way he gets away with that and certainly no fucking way he gets away without telling us where the 650k remaining BTC are.
Who the fucks know he actually got them and he just heisted them, never going to happen  Angry
Never is he going to run away with a missing 650k BTC stash, I will gladly add up some BTC to the bounty for the "final solution" if this ever happens.
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
April 18, 2014, 04:09:52 PM
#35

[...]

Quote
Hi everyone, my name is John Betts, and I am leading the proposed rehabilitation effort for Mt Gox, and Goat asked me to post here and communicate with you.
[...]

They have a site set up at savegox.com



John Betts is a former Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs executive, and former child actor turned venture capitalist Brock Pierce, are a part of a group of investors who want to resuscitate Mt.Gox. http://siliconangle.com/blog/2014/04/17/does-bitcoin-really-need-mtgox-probably-not/
legendary
Activity: 1901
Merit: 1024
April 18, 2014, 03:47:36 PM
#34
1. If court decide to sell OUR BTC at mtgox i will go to japan and there will blood!!!, only most retarded system would sell assets which can be split in fair way! (that would be insane! BTC is not something which can not be split so sell off is only way!)

2. The plan is nice, but the ppl/company that wish to buy out mtgox must prove their intention by some guarantee or some big $$ investment in new company! (sure in long run 500K validated accounts and the hype it can generate is not something small, the real benefit can be huge for whole BTC not just new company)

3. 200K is NOT 20%, you must know we don`t know the real audit balance! (I think its more like 30-40%)
- they must check all AML accounts for real persons
- they must decline all fake accounts, accounts of Mark K., McCaleb, etc... (FUK them!) and accounts of illegal business (like silk road, etc)

4. I think they don`t need to recover all lost but over time most to creditors and they need to have good plan
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